Psychics and Mediums?

[Dave L]

Yes, I have a thought. Who are you specifically accusing of using the Bible to forecast the future beyond what is written? You have some people in mind. Who are they?

Quantrill

Who are they? Any who go beyond the written word. The charismatic gifts ceased with the Apostles who distributed them. Scripture knows of no other means of distribution than the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Also the Book of Revelation was the final prophecy that Paul said would bring an end to those particular gifts.

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation [apocalypse] of our Lord Jesus Christ;” (1 Corinthians 1:7) (ASV 1901)

“The Revelation [apocalypse] of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1) (ASV 1901)

 

[Taken]

We see lots of this today. People even use the bible to forecast the future beyond what is clearly written. But what do you think? I ran across this and thought I'd share it. It is in a NET Bible note concerning mediums channeling the spirits of the dead for extra biblical information.

“Do not turn to the spirits of the dead and do not seek familiar spirits to become unclean by them. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:31) (NET)

The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below. Biblical Studies Press. (2005). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

So scripture treats this as reality, and according to the NET Bible Scholars, the extra biblical knowledge can even include dead relatives speaking through other human beings.

Any thoughts?

Psychics I believe are different than Mediums.

I believe the Psychic of a man, IS influenced by Spiritual Power.....which can be of Either; Good or Evil.

The Psychic of the individual, will know its own belief...

An other LISTENING to a Psychic of another man, such person LISTENING, can also determine if it is a Good Spirit or Evil Spirit, guiding the Psychic of another.

Mediums, are the supposed "intercessory" between the Living and the Dead;
Supposedly a Medium is able to Hear the Dead, and speak FOR THEM....TO the Living.

^ THAT was the premise of the popular movie titled; GHOST.

THAT premise is strictly forbidden by God, for men to NOT dabble in such things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

Who are they? Any who go beyond the written word. The charismatic gifts ceased with the Apostles who distributed them. Scripture knows of no other means of distribution than the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Also the Book of Revelation was the final prophecy that Paul said would bring an end to those particular gifts.

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation [apocalypse] of our Lord Jesus Christ;” (1 Corinthians 1:7) (ASV 1901)

“The Revelation [apocalypse] of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1) (ASV 1901)

The Charismatic gifts didn't cease with the apostle's. Who told you that?

(1 Cor. 1:7) " So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming our our Lord Jesus Christ:"

(Rev. 1:1) "The Revelation of Jesus Christ..."

Nothing here about any ending of the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Quantrill

 

[Dave L]

The Charismatic gifts didn't cease with the apostle's. Who told you that?

(1 Cor. 1:7) " So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming our our Lord Jesus Christ:"

(Rev. 1:1) "The Revelation of Jesus Christ..."

Nothing here about any ending of the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Quantrill

Paul's and John's use of Revelation confirms that they were to seek the gifts until then. And that the Revelation would also confirm them until the end [of the world]. Add to this, only an apostle could distribute the gifts, and there are no more apostles, all Charismatic gifts expired with John's death.

 

[Stranger]

Paul's and John's use of Revelation confirms that they were to seek the gifts until then. And that the Revelation would also confirm them until the end [of the world]. Add to this, only an apostle could distribute the gifts, and there are no more apostles, all Charismatic gifts expired with John's death.

No it doesn't. And no they didn't. The apostle has nothing to do with any distribution of the gifts of the Holy Ghost. That is from the Holy Spirit alone. And why isn't there still apostle's?

See, it's easy to say something.

Quantrill

 

[Enoch111]

The Charismatic gifts didn't cease with the apostle's. Who told you that?

Assuming that what you call *charismatic gifts* are the sign gifts -- signs, wonders, and miracles (also called *mighty deeds*), the Bible makes it crystal clear that those were primarily for the apostles (God bearing them witness) and some of their companions (such as Stephen), and we know from the History of The Church, that they were withdrawn with the passing of the apostles.

Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. (2 Cor 12:12)

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:2-4)

Who were the ones *that heard Him* (Christ) (Q) It was His own apostles, who were mandated to preach the Gospel, and signs would accompany them.

In this connection, it would pay Christians to read Counterfeit Miracles by B. B. Warfield, who thoroughly researched the matter.

 

[Stranger]

Assuming that what you call *charismatic gifts* are the sign gifts -- signs, wonders, and miracles (also called *mighty deeds*), the Bible makes it crystal clear that those were primarily for the apostles (God bearing them witness) and some of their companions (such as Stephen), and we know from the History of The Church, that they were withdrawn with the passing of the apostles.

Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. (2 Cor 12:12)

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:2-4)

Who were the ones *that heard Him* (Christ) (Q) It was His own apostles, who were mandated to preach the Gospel, and signs would accompany them.

In this connection, it would pay Christians to read Counterfeit Miracles by B. B. Warfield, who thoroughly researched the matter.

What 'history of the Church' says the gifts of the Holy Ghost were withdrawn? That will depend on whose telling the history.

So what? Signs and wonders, and miracles followed the believers of God. Nothing here says they ceased.

You are just telling me the signs and wonders, and miracles existed. I know they existed. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit exist today. You haven't given anything to prove they have ceased.

Quantrill

 

[Enoch111]

You haven't given anything to prove they have ceased.

All you have to do is visit any church in any city and see that the sign gifts have ceased. However, there are quite a few bogus miracle workers around (if you prefer to follow them).

*How long did this state of things continue? It was the characterizing peculiarity of specifically the Apostolic Church, and it belonged therefore exclusively to the Apostolic age—although no doubt this designation may be taken with some latitude. These gifts were not the possession of the primitive Christian as such;6 nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the Apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church, and they necessarily passed away with it.7 Of this we may make sure on the ground both of principle and of fact; that is to say both under the guidance of the New Testament teaching as to their origin and nature, and on the credit of the testimony of later ages as to their cessation. But I shall not stop at this point to adduce the proof of this. It will be sufficiently intimated in the criticism which I purpose to make of certain opposing opinions which have been current among students of the subject. My design is to state and examine the chief views which have been held favorable to the continuance of the charismata beyond the Apostolic age. In the process of this examination occasion will offer for noting whatever is needful to convince us that the possession of the charismata was confined to the Apostolic age...*

Warfield - Counterfeit Miracles

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes, I have a thought. Who are you specifically accusing of using the Bible to forecast the future beyond what is written? You have some people in mind. Who are they?

Quantrill

Where have you been Stranger? I was asking about you a couple of weeks ago...good to see you back!

 

[Stranger]

Where have you been Stranger? I was asking about you a couple of weeks ago...good to see you back!

Thanks. Good to speak to you. I was temporarily reassigned. Have been busy elsewhere though.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

All you have to do is visit any church in any city and see that the sign gifts have ceased. However, there are quite a few bogus miracle workers around (if you prefer to follow them).

*How long did this state of things continue? It was the characterizing peculiarity of specifically the Apostolic Church, and it belonged therefore exclusively to the Apostolic age—although no doubt this designation may be taken with some latitude. These gifts were not the possession of the primitive Christian as such;6 nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the Apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church, and they necessarily passed away with it.7 Of this we may make sure on the ground both of principle and of fact; that is to say both under the guidance of the New Testament teaching as to their origin and nature, and on the credit of the testimony of later ages as to their cessation. But I shall not stop at this point to adduce the proof of this. It will be sufficiently intimated in the criticism which I purpose to make of certain opposing opinions which have been current among students of the subject. My design is to state and examine the chief views which have been held favorable to the continuance of the charismata beyond the Apostolic age. In the process of this examination occasion will offer for noting whatever is needful to convince us that the possession of the charismata was confined to the Apostolic age...*

Warfield - Counterfeit Miracles

As much as I respect Warfield, he missed it here.

You don't see them exercised in many churches today because the churches don't allow them. But they are present in the lives of the born-again believers. You have people in leadership positions in the churches who are not gifted in that area. But they have the rule. Then when one comes along who is gifted by the Holy Spirit in that area, they silence him. This is the danger of not recognizing the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

So, I believe all the gifts are still present in the Body of Christ. Every believer has at least one, some have several. I am sure there are bogus imitators. You have them in your church also. In whatever you allow in your church, they will imitate. Just because there are frauds doesn't take away from the true.

Stranger

 

[Dave L]

No it doesn't. And no they didn't. The apostle has nothing to do with any distribution of the gifts of the Holy Ghost. That is from the Holy Spirit alone. And why isn't there still apostle's?

See, it's easy to say something.

Quantrill

But you cannot support this with scripture.

 

[Heart2Soul]

But you cannot support this with scripture.

Scripture supports it 100%
1 Corinthians 12:9-11
Spiritual Gifts
…9.to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.…

 

[Dave L]

Scripture supports it 100%
1 Corinthians 12:9-11
Spiritual Gifts
…9.to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.…

“Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” (Galatians 3:4–5) (KJV 1900)

 

[Heart2Soul]

“Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” (Galatians 3:4–5) (KJV 1900)

This is out of context of the appointing of gifts...The Holy Spirit is the one who apportions them....
Galatians 3 KJV and what it is addressing
Galatians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? this is talking about Jesus who ministered and sent the Holy Spirit to us ….and Paul was asking them if the miracles Jesus performed was by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith....

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 

[Dave L]

This is out of context of the appointing of gifts...The Holy Spirit is the one who apportions them....
Galatians 3 KJV and what it is addressing
Galatians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? this is talking about Jesus who ministered and sent the Holy Spirit to us ….and Paul was asking them if the miracles Jesus performed was by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith....

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

If you consider the Holy Spirit provided the Charismatic gifts through the two outpourings and through an apostle's hands, all other claims to them are false. Unless scripture shows an alternative means. Half of the picture, (cherry picking verses) will not suffice, but the whole picture shows the gifts came only in this manner.

 

[Heart2Soul]

If you consider the Holy Spirit provided the Charismatic gifts through the two outpourings and through an apostle's hands, all other claims to them are false. Unless scripture shows an alternative means. Half of the picture, (cherry picking verses) will not suffice, but the whole picture shows the gifts came only in this manner.

I do not consider Pentecost as the time of the outpourings.....the scriptures I quoted was from a letter Paul sent to the Corinthians teaching them about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and this is many years after Acts...Paul

Acts begins in Judea around 30-something CE. The opening chapter starts right after Jesus has died and risen again. Forty days later Jesus ascends into Heaven (1:9). Ten days after that the apostles all get visited by tongues of fire (2:1-4). It was a busy month and a half.

Corinthians was written approximately 25 years later
Author: 1 Corinthians 1:1 identifies the author of the Book of 1 Corinthians as the apostle Paul.

Date of Writing: The Book of 1 Corinthians was written in approximately A. D. 55.

Purpose of Writing: The apostle Paul founded the church in Corinth. A few years after leaving the church, the apostle Paul heard some disturbing reports about the Corinthian church. They were full of pride and were excusing sexual immorality. Spiritual gifts were being used improperly, and there was rampant misunderstanding of key Christian doctrines. The apostle Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthians in an attempt to restore the Corinthian church to its foundation—Jesus Christ.

 

[Dave L]

I do not consider Pentecost as the time of the outpourings.....the scriptures I quoted was from a letter Paul sent to the Corinthians teaching them about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and this is many years after Acts...Paul

Acts begins in Judea around 30-something CE. The opening chapter starts right after Jesus has died and risen again. Forty days later Jesus ascends into Heaven (1:9). Ten days after that the apostles all get visited by tongues of fire (2:1-4). It was a busy month and a half.

Corinthians was written approximately 25 years later
Author: 1 Corinthians 1:1 identifies the author of the Book of 1 Corinthians as the apostle Paul.

Date of Writing: The Book of 1 Corinthians was written in approximately A. D. 55.

Purpose of Writing: The apostle Paul founded the church in Corinth. A few years after leaving the church, the apostle Paul heard some disturbing reports about the Corinthian church. They were full of pride and were excusing sexual immorality. Spiritual gifts were being used improperly, and there was rampant misunderstanding of key Christian doctrines. The apostle Paul wrote his first letter to the Corinthians in an attempt to restore the Corinthian church to its foundation—Jesus Christ.

Please consider the historic record of the gifts. Two outpourings 7 years apart. One Jewish, one gentile. And all other instances of people receiving the gifts came through an apostle's hands. With no mention of any other way. Notice the past tense of Hebrews.

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” (Hebrews 2:3–4) (KJV 1900)

 

[ScottA]

We see lots of this today. People even use the bible to forecast the future beyond what is clearly written. But what do you think? I ran across this and thought I'd share it. It is in a NET Bible note concerning mediums channeling the spirits of the dead for extra biblical information.

“Do not turn to the spirits of the dead and do not seek familiar spirits to become unclean by them. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:31) (NET)

The prohibition here concerns those who would seek special knowledge through the spirits of the dead, whether the dead in general or dead relatives in particular (i.e., familiar spirits; see J. E. Hartley, Leviticus [WBC], 321, and B. A. Levine, Leviticus [JPSTC], 134). Cf. Lev 20:6 below. Biblical Studies Press. (2005). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

So scripture treats this as reality, and according to the NET Bible Scholars, the extra biblical knowledge can even include dead relatives speaking through other human beings.

Any thoughts?

This addresses more issues than just psychics and mediums, but would even include aliens, the paranormal, and every evil thought known to man.

The answer is...that all things good and evil are manifest in the world. Even when God says He will poor out His spirit upon all flesh, the reality is that all flesh is not born of God and thus will give power not only to good in the spiritual realm, but also evil.

Therefore, men being evil during those times, God commanded not to seek familiar [evil] spirits, which are the same [evil] spirits that embody the dead. And so it is even during these times, that "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

 

[Dave L]

This addresses more issues than just psychics and mediums, but would even include aliens, the paranormal, and every evil thought known to man.

The answer is...that all things good and evil are manifest in the world. Even when God says He will poor out His spirit upon all flesh, the reality is that all flesh is not born of God and thus will give power not only to good in the spiritual realm, but also evil.

Therefore, men being evil during those times, God commanded not to seek familiar [evil] spirits, which are the same [evil] spirits that embody the dead. And so it is even during these times, that "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

I agree but close the loop a little tighter.