rejecting Jesus Christ is different from the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

[Tong2020]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be to attribute what is of the Holy Spirit to the devil or his demons...

Such as saying that "tongues are of the devil" as I hear some people say.

People who say such things lack the fear of the Lord and the Lord Jesus will be their judge on that day.

<<<Such as saying that "tongues are of the devil" as I hear some people say.>>>

Not necessarily so. For instance, if what was spoken in tongues does not glorify God but Satan, what would you say of the said tongues?

Tong
R1958

 

[justbyfaith]

<<<Such as saying that "tongues are of the devil" as I hear some people say.>>>

Not necessarily so. For instance, if what was spoken in tongues does not glorify God but Satan, what would you say of the said tongues?

Tong
R1958

That it is false tongues and a counterfeit of the true spiritual gift.

 

[Tong2020]

That it is false tongues and a counterfeit of the true spiritual gift.

That’s right. And so, when one who can interpret the tongues says it is of the devil, he will not be guilty of blasphemy against the Spirit.

Tong
R1963

 

[Brakelite]

They key here is "in danger"

If you are in a runaway train traveling at 180 mph toward a cliff you are also in danger... Of an inevitable death.

You're forgetting Jesus preached to those in spirit prison when he was crucified, there will be others that know not Jesus that might also find similar salvation after they die.

You said you read this literally...I beg to differ.

You clearly do not know the scriptures. It says it right here:

1 Peter 3:18-20

18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Please answer some questions, and use only your quote text for the answer.
A. How did Jesus do the preaching?
B. To whom did He preach?
C. When did He preach?

 

[Brakelite]

If you are in a runaway train traveling at 180 mph toward a cliff you are also in danger... Of an inevitable death.

You said you read this literally...I beg to differ.


Please answer some questions, and use only your quote text for the answer.
A. How did Jesus do the preaching?
B. To whom did He preach?
C. When did He preach?

@Devin Wintch two more questions which are supplementary and the answers to which are found elsewhere in scripture...
D. Through whom did Jesus preach.
E. What prison were those antidiluvians in at the time of that preaching?

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s right. And so, when one who can interpret the tongues says it is of the devil, and will not be guilty of blasphemy against the Spirit.

Tong
R1963

Unless they are only claiming to have the gift of interpretation and are seeking to denounce the person who is speaking in tongues as being of the devil because they have some kind of beef against that person.

 

[Brakelite]

Blasphemy against the holy Spirit is declaring that the work of the Spirit is of Satan, and not God. Just as the scribes and Pharisees accused Jesus of doing the work of the devil. They still had opportunity for repentance after that... But someine who ascribes credit to Satan for the convicting power of sin by the holy Spirit, therefore rejects the only means by which anyone can turn to Christ... Through repentance of sin and confession of their need of a Savior.

 

[Sabertooth]

rejecting Jesus Christ is different from the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE,
To "speak words against the Holy Spirit", is / means to argue against the "WITNESS" of the Holy Spirit while the only witness of the Holy Spirit is to witness of the Christ of God, the Lord Jesus the ONLY SAVIOUR OF HIS PEOPLE

(Hopefully, this has been cited already...)
You are disagreeing with Jesus directly (in the very verse that defines the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!"),
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,

but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.​

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him;

but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit,
it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32 NKJV​

If you would persist in the position of the OP, you would have to come up with a different bible and a different "Jesus."

 

[dev553344]

If you are in a runaway train traveling at 180 mph toward a cliff you are also in danger... Of an inevitable death.

You said you read this literally...I beg to differ.


Please answer some questions, and use only your quote text for the answer.
A. How did Jesus do the preaching?
B. To whom did He preach?
C. When did He preach?

I think the scriptures here speak the answers to the questions you were asking

 

[Brakelite]

I think the scriptures here speak the answers to the questions you were asking

They do indeed. But you're reading that passage with a preconceived idea as to what they mean... You are reading into the passage your own opinion. If you were simply reading the passage as offered, you wouldn't come up with the nonsense that Jesus left His grave to travel to hell or wherever and preach to a select few people who already rejected Noah's preaching of righteousness before the flood... Mocking him and his family. Why them and not those who rejected the preaching of Lot when Sodom was destroyed? What was special about the people of Noah's day that they should get a second chance and no-one else in the history of scripture? Especially when one considers their thoughts and intentions of their hearts were only evil continually? Sorry, but apart from the fact that the passage does not suggest such a concept, it makes no sense logically either. You need to read it again asking God to show you the truth.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Ananias and Sapphira did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. They lied to the Holy Spirit.

It could be a legitimate distinction. Ja, true, for sooth! your discernment brings clarity to this whole discussion. God's ways are not our ways; we cannot ever have ready-made answers for all our questions.

Here you have two people killed for having sinned a completely common, sin, without further ado—, members for a short time of the New Religion of Christianity, sinning a sin every other of the same Faith has committed and has been guilty of and has been forgiven, to afterwards have enjoyed their forgiveness indefinitely longer.

But in the case of the Pharisees you have the GUARDIANS of the Oracles of God, who have, (1) virtually all their lives (2) STUDIED, SEARCHING (3) the SCRIPTURES, (4) for the CHRIST, (5) BELIEVING (6) GOD (7) SPEAKS in them, (8) BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT— you have these privileged and gifted, responsible LEADERS, that when they FIND HIM, and SEE before their eyes the witness of the Holy Spirit THEY found speaking in the SCRIPTURES which THEY have searched, for HIM, testifying of HIM, and almightily attesting HIS MESSIAHSHIP—, that when they SEE their lifelong research and expectancy confirmed and proven, THEY DENY, INSULT AND REJECT HIM, and, we may think, still got away with it and lived happily ever after.

Which makes one wonder, true. So we still have no answer, because God’s ways cannot be questioned by us.

Now thinking of it, I would say there is another explanation that looks more like the real one to me.

How could the Pharisees walk away unperturbed and very much self-satisfied with their tirade and insult and blasphemous misdemeanour against both the Son and the Spirit of God, but Ananias and Saphira had to die for their theft or lying, there and then?

I believe, because the Pharisees were integral part of the Last SUFFERING “according to the Scriptures the Christ had to suffer”— “THESE THINGS HAD TO BE” in order to complete and perfect Jesus’ atonement and reconciliation made for sin.

But Ananias and Saphira came AFTER Jesus had accomplished and finished and had triumphed greatly. The Christ has to suffer no more blasphemies in the flesh nor tolerate any longer blasphemies against God’s Holy Spirit.

Then of course also, we know, because it is written, those hypocrites have not dodged or evaded or escaped their final reward. Their day is coming, God is Judge. With Him there is no shadow of turning.

But we believe, our Confession goes, “I believe the Forgiveness of sins”—Forgiveness of all our sins despite which a) kind or b) manner or c) time of sin.

This Confession means that we, believers in Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, reject the CATHOLIC abomination of desolation that lies against the Holy Spirit that there is one sin which cannot be forgiven me, or any other sinner like me.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can be to attribute what is of the Holy Spirit to the devil or his demons...

Such as saying that "tongues are of the devil" as I hear some people say.

People who say such things lack the fear of the Lord and the Lord Jesus will be their judge on that day.

There is one thing wrong with all this, The Holy Spirit WHERE? Which was the Jews' condition for self-righteousness as it is the condition for self-righteousness with any others. It is the condition of the Holy Spirit : IN ME, and not The Spirit IN SCRIPTURE.

Friend please read the first three posts of this thread
The common denominator


, and note how they follow the one after the other.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

They do indeed. But you're reading that passage with a preconceived idea as to what they mean... You are reading into the passage your own opinion. If you were simply reading the passage as offered, you wouldn't come up with the nonsense that Jesus left His grave to travel to hell or wherever and preach to a select few people who already rejected Noah's preaching of righteousness before the flood... Mocking him and his family. Why them and not those who rejected the preaching of Lot when Sodom was destroyed? What was special about the people of Noah's day that they should get a second chance and no-one else in the history of scripture? Especially when one considers their thoughts and intentions of their hearts were only evil continually? Sorry, but apart from the fact that the passage does not suggest such a concept, it makes no sense logically either. You need to read it again asking God to show you the truth.

AMEN

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I don’t have the same thinking. Israel’s leaders also did not know that Jesus is the Messiah.

Then this is really the crux of the matter, Joe. This is it, the WHOLE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST at the melting flame's point in the pot. I'm afraid, I cannot reach the depths of it down there. Goodness, feels so unreal the Historic Jesus never existed. Sorry, I have no answer.

 

[Behold]

I don’t have the same thinking. Israel’s leaders also did not know that Jesus is the Messiah.

Tong
R1956

And till today they deny it.
As a matter of fact, in Israel, at this time, they think they have found their messiah.
You can find his picture on Transit buses and in many shops.

Really.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I disagree. Jesus Himself made this clear when He distinguished blasphemy against the Son of Man and blasphemy against the Spirit.

No, It is not true that <<Jesus .. distinguished blasphemy against the Son of Man and blasphemy against the Spirit>>, He did right the opposite, Jesus Himself made this clear when He IDENTIFIED blasphemy against the Son of Man and blasphemy against the Spirit. Ja, that is what He did, saying,

John 6:62What and if ye shall see The Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is The Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life. 64But there are SOME of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him. 65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Luke 2:34b This Child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of MANY HEARTS may be revealed.

Matthew 10:23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Matthew 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

31Διὰ τοῦτο λέγω ὑμῖν, πᾶσα ἁμαρτία καὶ βλασφημία ἀφεθήσεται τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, ἡ δὲ τοῦ Πνεύματος βλασφημία οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται. 32καὶ ὃς ἐὰν εἴπῃ λόγον κατὰ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ἀφεθήσεται αὐτῷ· ὃς δ’ ἂν εἴπῃ κατὰ τοῦ Πνεύματος τοῦ Ἁγίου, οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται αὐτῷ οὔτε ἐν τούτῳ τῷ αἰῶνι οὔτε ἐν τῷ μέλλοντι.

Luke 11: 14And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered. 15But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils. 16And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven. 17But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth. 18If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub. 19And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 20But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 23He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

12:8Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. 11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

8λέγω δὲ ὑμῖν, πᾶς ὃς ἂν ὁμολογήσῃ ἐν ἐμοὶ ἔμπροσθεν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, καὶ ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὁμολογήσει ἐν αὐτῷ ἔμπροσθεν τῶν ἀγγέλων τοῦ Θεοῦ· 9ὁ δὲ ἀρνησάμενός με ἐνώπιον τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀπαρνηθήσεται ἐνώπιον τῶν ἀγγέλων τοῦ Θεοῦ. 10καὶ πᾶς ὃς ἐρεῖ λόγον εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ἀφεθήσεται αὐτῷ· τῷ δὲ εἰς τὸ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα βλασφημήσαντι οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται. 11ὅταν δὲ εἰσφέρωσιν ὑμᾶς ἐπὶ τὰς συναγωγὰς καὶ τὰς ἀρχὰς καὶ τὰς ἐξουσίας, μὴ μεριμνήσητε πῶς ἢ τί ἀπολογήσησθε ἢ τί εἴπητε· 12τὸ γὰρ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα διδάξει ὑμᾶς ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ἃ δεῖ εἰπεῖν.

Mark 3: 20And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. 22And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 27No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

28Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πάντα ἀφεθήσεται τοῖς υἱοῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων, τὰ ἁμαρτήματα καὶ αἱ βλασφημίαι, ὅσα ἐὰν βλασφημήσωσιν· 29ὃς δ’ ἂν βλασφημήσῃ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, οὐκ ἔχει ἄφεσιν εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, ἀλλὰ ἔνοχός ἐστιν αἰωνίου ἁμαρτήματος. 30ὅτι ἔλεγον Πνεῦμα ἀκάθαρτον ἔχει.

The Son O'Man Jesus, Child O'Sign, Son O'Carpenter, The Crucified who was "set to a fall" but "through it triumphed", Himself made it clear the blasphemy of men was aimed and steered against Him the Son of Man of whom the Spirit Witnessed, Testified, and in SCRIPTURE SPOKE.

 

[Wrangler]

Proposal rejected. Board adjourned.

Who are you to say what is accepted or rejected? Who appointed you to this “Board.” From who is it’s authority delegated?

Copying and pasting aside, you managed to side step the basic question of this thread and the post you replied to.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Blasphemy against the holy Spirit is declaring that the work of the Spirit is of Satan,

Blasphemy against the holy Spirit is declaring that the work of Christ is of Satan. In every Scripture where blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is spoken / written of, JESUS was blasphemed that HE, did satan's work. Jesus was the one ultimately blasphemed , not the Spirit. And it ALWAYS WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HOLY SCRIPTURE, never directly the Holy Spirit (alone) that blasphemies were spoken against.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Blasphemy against the holy Spirit is declaring that the work of the Spirit is of Satan, and not God. Just as the scribes and Pharisees accused Jesus of doing the work of the devil. They still had opportunity for repentance after that... But someine who ascribes credit to Satan for the convicting power of sin by the holy Spirit, therefore rejects the only means by which anyone can turn to Christ... Through repentance of sin and confession of their need of a Savior.

The perfect definition of the Roman Catholic / SDA 'unforgiveable sin' / 'sin against the Holy Spirit'. And the difference between this charismatic interpretation and the TRUE, is : 'The Spirit IN ME' being assumed the Spirit of God, viz., 'the Holy Spirit' subjectively even sentimentally, versus the Holy Spirit that "breathed the SCRIPTURES CONDERNING THE CHRIST" objectively.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I don’t have the same thinking. Israel’s leaders also did not know that Jesus is the Messiah.

Then this is really the crux of the matter, Joe. This is it, the WHOLE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST at the melting flame's point in the pot. I'm afraid, I cannot reach the depths of it down there. Goodness, feels so unreal the Historic Jesus never existed. Sorry, I have no answer.

Though they have the scriptures which speaks of the Messiah, they apparently were ignorant of the Messiah and did not recognize that He is Jesus. When Jesus was about to die on the cross, He said “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”

Tong
R1968