Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[BreadOfLife]

Nice try. Not in spirit, and now not in truth.

The end of this kind of conversation ends with someone's interpretation not aligning with God's truth. But the defining difference is always true in spirit - which you have not reckoned with. So, you will have to wait.

You're dancing around the issue again.
If what I described about John 6:63 is wrong - then explain WHY it's wrong.

You're talking about "ending" a conversation because you're backed into a corner again . . .

 

[ScottA]

We see Jesus eating with the Apostles after His Resurrection (Luke 24:42).
Spirits don't eat food nor do they hunger or have need for food.

You are mixing things up.

"a spirit does not have flesh and bones"...but, "God is spirit" and Jesus has gone "to the Father" since that time when He appeared bodily.

This, as I have already told you, was to show that He had overcome death and had complete authority over the world. Nevertheless, He then ascended and joined the Father in spirit. But you believe that because He has manifest Himself in this what that He has not been lifted up to that greater spiritual height of God...and yet He has, and is fully capable of such manifestations...as we to will be.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are mixing things up.

"a spirit does not have flesh and bones"...but, "God is spirit" and Jesus has gone "to the Father" since that time when He appeared bodily.

This, as I have already told you, was to show that He had overcome death and had complete authority over the world. Nevertheless, He then ascended and joined the Father in spirit. But you believe that because He has manifest Himself in this what that He has not been lifted up to that greater spiritual height of God...and yet He has, and is fully capable of such manifestations...as we to will be.

And you have YET to explain the fact that Jesus asked for food and ate it - AFTER His Resurrection. Spirits don't eat food.
You have YET to show me ONE verse that shows Him shedding His physicality before ascending to the Father.

When you can explain these things from Scripture - you might have a case.
Until then - you have failed again in your heresy . . .

 

[ScottA]

You're dancing around the issue again.
If what I described about John 6:63 is wrong - then explain WHY it's wrong.

John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

You have been holding to and valuing the "physical" body which is "flesh", but you yourself dancing around the fact that "the flesh profits nothing" and "does not inherit the kingdom." It is also mortal and passing away.

If you had said, "See, isn't it wonderful that in spite of the fact that the flesh does not enter the kingdom, Christ has overcome all things and provided a means of being spirit and body in a new and glorified way", then we would not be arguing. But you have not handled what has occurred at His ascension in such a way that you even understand the transfiguration. You have not said that the flesh returns to the dust, but rather suggest that it is glorified and preserved, when it is not - it is replaced, new, not that old body.

If you agree, then say so, because this is the word of God, and you have yet to represent the truth fully.

 

[BreadOfLife]

John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

You have been holding to and valuing the "physical" body which is "flesh", but you yourself dancing around the fact that "the flesh profits nothing" and "does not inherit the kingdom." It is also mortal and passing away.

If you had said, "See, isn't it wonderful that in spite of the fact that the flesh does not enter the kingdom, Christ has overcome all things and provided a means of being spirit and body in a new and glorified way", then we would not be arguing. But you have not handled what has occurred at His ascension in such a way that you even understand the transfiguration. You have not said that the flesh returns to the dust, but rather suggest that it is glorified and preserved, when it is not - it is replaced, new, not that old body.

If you agree, then say so, because this is the word of God, and you have yet to represent the truth fully.

It always cracks me up when would-be Christians use John 6:63 as a "proof" against the flesh.

The flesh profits "nothing"?? Jesus' flesh profits us EVERYTHING because he was pout to death in the flesh (1 Pet. 3:18) as our perfect sacrifice before the Father. Without His sacrificed flesh and blood - we would have NO chance at salvation.

As I educated you before - John 6:63 is not talking about Jesus' flesh.
is speaking specifically about those who couldn't grasp the fact that Jesus was telling them that they needed to eat His flesh and drink His blood. He just got done explaining to them that they didn't get it because it hadn't been revealed to them - and apparently, it hasn't been revealed to YOU . . .

 

[ScottA]

And you have YET to explain the fact that Jesus asked for food and ate it - AFTER His Resurrection. Spirits don't eat food.
You have YET to show me ONE verse that shows Him shedding His physicality before ascending to the Father.

When you can explain these things from Scripture - you might have a case.
Until then - you have failed again in your heresy . . .

I did explain...that He had risen bodily having overcome death, and that he made a point of clarifying that He had not yet ascended, which He also did when He appeared to the apostles and ate. That point being, that He had not merely passed on and ascended, but that He had also completely overcome the world and death - even in the flesh.

But that does not mean that the flesh is glorified - No, the scriptures say otherwise, nor that the flesh inherits or enters the kingdom in the ascension.

It is both of these two very different events that fulfill His dominion over heaven and earth: Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But...the scriptures tell us that it is "not that body", but that "all things have been made new." This is the glory of the Lord, that the "old things have passed away", that what is in store for those who wait upon the Lord...is a "new heaven, and a new earth" according to the glory that is of God, and not of the world.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did explain...that He had risen bodily having overcome death, and that he made a point of clarifying that He had not yet ascended, which He also did when He appeared to the apostles and ate. That point being, that He had not merely passed on and ascended, but that He had also completely overcome the world and death - even in the flesh.

But that does not mean that the flesh is glorified - No, the scriptures say otherwise, nor that the flesh inherits or enters the kingdom in the ascension.

It is both of these two very different events that fulfill His dominion over heaven and earth: Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But...the scriptures tell us that it is "not that body", but that "all things have been made new." This is the glory of the Lord, that the "old things have passed away", that what is in store for those who wait upon the Lord...is a "new heaven, and a new earth" according to the glory that is of God, and not of the world.

You keep dancing around the issue.
Where does Scripture tell us that Jesus SHED His glorified Body when he ascended to the Father??
Why did Jesus ask the Apostles for something to eat - AFTER His Resurrection and AFTER coming into the room through a locked door??

 

[ScottA]

It always cracks me up when would-be Christians use John 6:63 as a "proof" against the flesh.

The flesh profits "nothing"?? Jesus' flesh profits us EVERYTHING because he was pout to death in the flesh (1 Pet. 3:18) as our perfect sacrifice before the Father. Without His sacrificed flesh and blood - we would have NO chance at salvation.

As I educated you before - John 6:63 is not talking about Jesus' flesh.
is speaking specifically about those who couldn't grasp the fact that Jesus was telling them that they needed to eat His flesh and drink His blood. He just got done explaining to them that they didn't get it because it hadn't been revealed to them - and apparently, it hasn't been revealed to YOU . . .

First, what Jesus did in the flesh was not a "profit", but "redemption." Minus 100% + 100% = 0 (no profit).

Thus, you had no education to offer.

On the contrary, you error in your understanding, thinking that Jesus actually meant his flesh and blood, after clarifying that His words were "spirit", and a parable. You add error to error, now assuming and proclaiming with harsh rhetoric what is not true, that "bodily resurrection" means that old body born of water, rather than that which is born of the spirit of God. It does not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

First, what Jesus did in the flesh was not a "profit", but "redemption." Minus 100% + 100% = 0 (no profit).

Thus, you had no education to offer.

On the contrary, you error in your understanding, thinking that Jesus actually meant his flesh and blood, after clarifying that His words were "spirit", and a parable. You add error to error, now assuming and proclaiming with harsh rhetoric what is not true, that "bodily resurrection" means that old body born of water, rather than that which is born of the spirit of God. It does not.

Sorry, but you need to Jesus PAID for us, which is what "Redeem" means.

We weren't at minus 100% - we were at ZERO%. Salvation profits us 100%.
Your math is as flawed as your heretical views.
Mark 8:36
For what does it PROFIT a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

You STILL haven't answered the following:
Where does Scripture tell us that Jesus SHED His glorified Body when he ascended to the Father??
Why did Jesus ask the Apostles for something to eat - AFTER His Resurrection and AFTER coming into the room through a locked door??

EPIC failure . . .

 

[ScottA]

You keep dancing around the issue.
Where does Scripture tell us that Jesus SHED His glorified Body when he ascended to the Father??
Why did Jesus ask the Apostles for something to eat - AFTER His Resurrection and AFTER coming into the room through a locked door??

I have explained many times. You hear, but you do not perceive.

1. The scriptures tell us that the flesh returns to the dust of the earth as it was. But now you have changed your question to say "glorified body", which I did not say he shed. This is you dancing around, not me.
2. This too, I have answered: that He might establish His victory over sin and death, even in the flesh. But you still do not see. Do you not know that it says that He "appeared" to them, because He appeared according to His will, and not according to the will of men which is the will of the flesh? Those who did eat did also understand, but you have not eaten but of the flesh, for which you now speak.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry, but you need to Jesus PAID for us, which is what "Redeem" means.

We weren't at minus 100% - we were at ZERO%. Salvation profits us 100%.
Your math is as flawed as your heretical views.
Mark 8:36
For what does it PROFIT a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Your math is that of the world, which cannot be reconciled with all of scripture:

Matthew 18:11
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Therefore, all scripture would indicate that before we were even born of the flesh, we had lost everything of value. And that all the world - including the flesh, profits nothing.

Who should listen to you, when you do not know these things?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry, but you need to Jesus PAID for us, which is what "Redeem" means.

We weren't at minus 100% - we were at ZERO%. Salvation profits us 100%.
Your math is as flawed as your heretical views.

You STILL haven't answered the following:
Where does Scripture tell us that Jesus SHED His glorified Body when he ascended to the Father??
Why did Jesus ask the Apostles for something to eat - AFTER His Resurrection and AFTER coming into the room through a locked door??

EPIC failure . . .

Your math is that of the world, which cannot be reconciled with all of scripture:

Matthew 18:11
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Therefore, all scripture would indicate that before we were even born of the flesh, we had lost everything of value. And that all the world - including the flesh, profits nothing.

Who should listen to you, when you do not know these things?

When you lose everything - you're at ZERO - not -100.
Your math is flawed.

We were never at -100%.
Jesus redeemed us with His flesh and blood - profiting us everything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have explained many times. You hear, but you do not perceive.

1. The scriptures tell us that the flesh returns to the dust of the earth as it was. But now you have changed your question to say "glorified body", which I did not say he shed. This is you dancing around, not me.
2. This too, I have answered: that He might establish His victory over sin and death, even in the flesh. But you still do not see. Do you not know that it says that He "appeared" to them, because He appeared according to His will, and not according to the will of men which is the will of the flesh? Those who did eat did also understand, but you have not eaten but of the flesh, for which you now speak.

No - I never changed my position. I always spoke of His glorified Body.
His glorified body will not return to dust because it is incorruptible.

The rest of your post is the same pathetic dodge.
WHEN did Jesus shed His glorified Body and become 100% spirit, as YOU contend??

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[ScottA]

When you lose everything - you're at ZERO - not -100.
Your math is flawed.

We were never at -100%.
Jesus redeemed us with His flesh and blood - profiting us everything.

Wrong ledger. That and $2 will get you a lousy cup of coffee.

 

[ScottA]

No - I never changed my position. I always spoke of His glorified Body.

Not true. You, thinking that the resurrection of the flesh, was the same as the ascension and transfiguration from flesh to spirit, quoted verses with "flesh and blood" hoping to prove what is not true - but rather showed that you did not understand.

Chapter and verse, please.

No, I have done enough.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong ledger. That and $2 will get you a lousy cup of coffee.

Wrong.
We've never been at a negative balance because we only have ONE life.

Your math is as perverted as your theology . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not true. You, thinking that the resurrection of the flesh, was the same as the ascension and transfiguration from flesh to spirit, quoted verses with "flesh and blood" hoping to prove what is not true - but rather showed that you did not understand.
No, I have done enough.

No - you've done nothing but dodge the issue because you've never shown where Scripture tells us that Jesus shed His glorified body before ascending to the Father.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC to all. the bible is very clear as to what kind of body the Lord Jesus have NOW, meaning after his resurrection. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". he Just told us that he is "spirit". and have flesh and bone. now, as for me I must believe the Lord Jesus, I ask can the Lord LIE? God forbid. now if he say he have Flesh and bone, well he have flesh and bone. now is there anyone willing to call the Lord Jesus a Liar?

1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body".
what do we get fro these verses? 1. we are spirit that have a body, in this life with blood, "A NATURAL BODY". except it die, it is raised incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42 & 43 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power".
so what is the POWER of God? Spirit, 1 Corinthians 15:44 & 45 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body". what's the diffrencr between a natural body and a spiritual body? answer "NO BLOOD". scripture, Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". that's why flesh and bone can enter, but not flesh and "BLOOD". the Lord Jesus LIVES not a natural life, or existence by blood anymore, but by the Spirit, an eternal one. which there is nothing to harm it. so he can eat and drink, but not for existence. his body is the NEW CREATION, God in flesh and bone eternally. this is the IMAGE of God that is to come, and now is. and we shall be like him, ... as the scriptures states, 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is".

Amen.

 

[ScottA]

Wrong.
We've never been at a negative balance because we only have ONE life.

Your math is as perverted as your theology . . .

You speak as a man (of the world), accounting only for the flesh, that body born of water.

 

[ScottA]

No - you've done nothing but dodge the issue because you've never shown where Scripture tells us that Jesus shed His glorified body before ascending to the Father.

I have shown you many times - but speaking of dodges, what does that have to do with you mixing the terms of Jesus rising from the dead with His ascension and not understanding just what "appeared" for a witness?