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Featured Salvation loss. Is it possible?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Mick_Alexander, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    well Dcopymope, is not the LORD all caps the saviour?, scripture, Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". me is a single person, and LORD is all caps indicating the one whom you call Father.

    now for your second question,
    Revelation 5:13 "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever". so the one sitting on the throne receive power, let's back this up, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created". now my question, if the one sitting on the throne receive POWER and you say it's the Father, I want to know who have more power than the Father in to give him POWER". from my understanding the Father have all POWER. so please give book chapter and verse as to who have more power that the one whom you calls the Father who suppose to be sitting on the throne. .
     
  2. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to base your entire theological viewpoint on the flesh based on one or two verses in this way, then it has to be consistent, both from old to new testament. There was no Jesus in the old testament and you can't have one without the other. This isn't just about Jesus, this is about how the flesh relates to God in general. Can you cite a case where God ever appeared to Moses in all of his glory? How come he always had to reveal himself to Moses under different guises, a burning bush, a burning mountain, etc? Obviously, when it says Noah and Enoch "walked with God", it didn't mean that he literally appeared in full glory. If he appeared at all, it was likely in a more human form, such as the case was with God's appearance before Abraham. My theological viewpoint on the flesh starts from the very beginning before the fall, not just with a few verses in the new testament.

     
  3. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    You forget the verses before stating on no uncertain terms that the one sitting on the throne is clearly NOT Jesus.

    Again, if you base your entire theological viewpoint based on only a few verses, and capitalized letters, you are bound to be in error.
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Not meaning to answer for Scott, but an "appearance" is not the same as a "manifestation".
    two walking with God is not physical, but way of life, or living. and third the Lord Jesus was in the OLD TESTAMENT, but without flesh and without bone , and without blood, scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".
    understand, the Christ, Spirit was in the prophet in the Old testament, he is the WORD, and the word came unto the prophets of old. just read those prophets. since you like Ezekiel let's use him, 1:1-4 "Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. 2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity, 3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him". the "WORD" of the LORD is God. scripture, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I take this as you cannot answer? it's plain as English. but I'll let you answer it. was it the Father as you say is speaking in Isaiah 43:11 or the son. which one...... (smile), I'll be waiting for your answer.
     
  6. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    Whenever the Father speaks, it is the Father speaking through Jesus as "the word". This is why Jesus referred to himself as the one who spoke to Moses in the from of a burning bush. Again, I don't get too hung up on capitalized letters. That in of itself will not give you a full understanding. Now, are you going to be a man and admit you were wrong about who really sits on the throne?
     
  7. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: M'kay, we all know Jesus Christ is the word made flesh.......your point?
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    so then it's Jesus speaking in the O.T. and the NEW Testament. scripture, Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". now please tell us who is speaking here.
     
  9. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure where you are going with this. It was a side note, and I made a side comment... Is there more you would like to say?
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    this is my point, was the word, (Jesus) flesh in the OLD TESTAMENT. if not then you have two Spirits.
     
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm let's check the record,
    Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling”
    John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”.

    “a” Spirit, “a” Spirit. Is ONE Spirit.
    that capitalization means a lot.
     
  12. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Your question has been answered below.....And I'm still waiting on your response to my question. Who sits on the throne?

    I don't if you don't.

    According to the totality of scripture, you have three, not one or two, separate yet acting as one, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, clearly present from the very beginning.

    The only case that anyone can cite as the appearance of a pre-incarnate Jesus with absolute certainty is in the book of Daniel, where the forth man in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed–nego was "like the Son of God".

     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    that a ERROR, and you used Genesis 1:26-28 the US lie. the us is the lord to come in flesh. scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". see that word "figure" it means "FASHION", Scripture, Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". see that's God coming in flesh as a MAN. this is the diversity of God, shared in flesh. LOL, how easy. see if you just read the bible. so that 3 person is an ERROR on your part. understand the Holy Spirit, (the Spirit) whom you're ignorant of, holds the titles "FATHER" without flesh in the O.T. and the same Spirit shared in flesh holds the title "Son"... how easy when one understands "Diversity" and if you're wondering where I get "diversity" it is the word "OFFSPRING", Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". offspring is the Greek word,
    G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
    kin.
    {abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
    [from G1096]
    KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
    Root(s): G1096

    well there it is "diversity" that's how God came into this world, by flesh and bone, or being a "diversity" of himself. how simple. see, the Lord Jesus is God in flesh :p, scripture, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". see no controversy, yes GOD the one whom you call father, because you said, "Whenever the Father speaks, it is the Father speaking through Jesus as "the word". This is why Jesus referred to himself as the one who spoke to Moses in the from of a burning bush. Again, I don't get too hung up on capitalized letters". LOL, LOL. my, my, my, it's the same person, only diversified. man oh man, how plain can it gets.
     
  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, since no one want to answer the Revelation 1:1 question, I will. who sent his angel to john. the angel who was sent told us, listen, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done". the holy prophets are O.T as well as N.T, but when he said holy prophets ones mind went to O.T. and that's right too. but the bible, God word gives us the answer. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". so the Lord Jesus is the God of the O.T. and N.T and if that's true, which it is. then if one say that the Father and the son are not the same person, then one have two Gods in the O.T. and that's polytheism, Idol worship which will get one into hell quick unless one change their mind, like in renew it. so our doctrine as to what we believe is very important.
     
  15. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    Explain the following scripture if "after our likeness" isn't referring to more than one person of the God head. How does your rant about "diversity" match the two "LORDs" (upper case) below?

    So we have two upper case "LORDS". One of many reasons why I don't base my theological viewpoint on semantics, and whether or not certain words are capitalized. Explain how your "LORD" versus "Lord" belief works in this verse. I'll be waiting.........and once again.........Who sits on the throne?
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    did you not hear?, or read what I posted, if not let me say it again. our is Spirit + the flesh to come, for man (FLESH) is the image, the fashion, the figure to come. scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". who is a PERSON. and that "Person" is God diversified in flesh. scripture, Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". how clear can one get.

    (Genesis 19:23-25) "¶ The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. {24} Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven.
    TWO LORDS? I can't believe you posted that, weak, weak, it's the same PERSON, listen, Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me". is this two Gods?.... :D. my, my, my. Oh well.
     
  17. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    I am in essence referring to two different people. Its saying that God the Father spoke fire and brimstone upon Sodom through his son in heaven, being "the word". I'm sure we all know there is only one God, its basic doctrine, no need to repeat yourself on the matter. Your "Lord" versus "LORD" belief doesn't hold up to scrutiny......and....Who sits on the throne?
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Lol, 1. Your "Lord" versus "LORD" belief doesn't hold up to scrutiny". it do. and 2. "Who sits on the throne?" the Lord Jesus, as well as standing. by not knowing "diversity" you will never understand the "LORD" who is the "Lord" in flesh. good day.
     
  19. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: The "LORD" who is the "Lord" in the flesh.....yet clearly SEPARATE.

    The throne of God AND of the Lamb:
    Its very explicit in its meaning, that there are two different thrones for two different people. It is the prophecy of the Lamb who will sit on the right hand of God the Father, who sits on THE throne.

    Now I see you aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong, so yep, you have a nice life.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  20. be humble

    be humble New Member

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    There are also some parables mention in the Bible, such as
    The parable of the tares (Mat 13:24-30)
    The parable of the tares explained (Mat 13:36-43)
    The parable of the gost and sheep (Mat 25:32)
    It can be seen that the Lord Jesus will be classified according to kind.

    And also this verse “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26) It can be seen that if people don’t follow the Lord’s word and deliberately sin and resist God, they will still be condemned by the Lord or even would lose the salvation.

    About the question, I think we should know the standard of entering God’s kingdom.

    Lord Jesus has forgiven our sins; that's a fact. But we still often sin and resist the Lord, and do deceitful things and shame His name. That's just the truth. The Lord Jesus said, "Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. And the servant stays not in the house for ever …" (John 8:34-35). The Lord Jesus said that Himself. God is holy, and so is His kingdom. For us who work hard but continue to sin, how can we be allowed to enter His kingdom? I've felt in my heart that that's impossible. All the Lord's believers think: "Since the Lord redeemed man through the crucifixion, we've been forgiven of all of our sins. And as we are no longer sinners, we are justified by our faith. So as long as we endure till the end, we'll be saved, and be raptured directly into the kingdom of heaven when He returns. Is this common viewpoint correct or not?

    Is it really based on God's word? If this is against the truth, what will it result in?

    As believers, we should always act according to the Lord's word and we should listen to His word even more. It's true that Lord Jesus has completed His work of redeeming humanity. But does that mean God's work of saving man is thereby finished? And so, can we be raptured into His kingdom by faith in Lord Jesus alone? No man can fathom the answer.

    The Lord Jesus once said, "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).
    "… you shall therefore be holy, for I am holy" (Leviticus 11:45).

    The words of God state clearly that anyone who enters the kingdom of heaven must be cleansed of sin. They all do God's will, love God, obey and worship Him. For God is holy, and in the kingdom is God living with man. Unless sanctified, we aren't qualified to enter God's kingdom. Many people think we can enter the kingdom of heaven simply because our sins were forgiven. But this is a grave misunderstanding. This is purely man's imagination. The Lord Jesus has forgiven our sins. That's true. But He never said this forgiveness meant being purified, and allowed directly into the kingdom of heaven. No one can deny this fact.
     
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