SDA: Seventh Dilemma Adventism

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Harvest 1874

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Harvest, I understand that you are clarifying your position through longer posts, but I am using shorter posts to cut straight to the chase, and you didn't answer my question. I'm curious to know how many you expect to reach by your approach.

You see right here is an example where clarification proves useful, I mistakenly assumed you were asking how many do I expect the Lord would reach by not employing “signs and wonders” during the harvest of the Gospel age as he exhibited during the harvest of the Jewish age, not how many we (as Bible Students) expected to reach with our message.

As to your question:

We don’t expect to reach many as the majority, as the Lord so intimates are “dull of hearing”, and prefer to listen to teachers with “itching ears” who will tell them just what they want to hear rather than the truth. Our mission has nothing to do with the evangelizing the world at this time that waits for its “due time” in the next age, we are not called to sow at this time but rather to reap, for the harvest is ripe and the time to reap has come (Rev 14:15).

We have no interest in the professing Church, the church nominal at this time accept to warn of the judgements coming to any who would heed. The majority of these (tares) are even now being bound together all the more tightly into their prospective bundles (their creeds, denominations, institutions and organizations) in preparation for the fire of the great day.

Our primary mission at this time is to help gather the Lords little ones, those begotten of his spirit, (Matt 24:31) into the barn (the condition of security, separateness from the worldly and the worldly church), thus the call at this time, "Come out of her, my people" (Rev 18:4).

The mature, that is those more thoroughly developed in the graces and knowledge of our Lord have long since heeded this injunction, but alas the Lord still has many who are but “babes in Christ” not yet fully developed (un-ripened wheat), and thus unsure of where they belong, many of these still feel a connection to the professing church and are reluctant to leave their friends and family who still abide there. Unfortunately the time is short and very soon now the great time of trouble will be upon us and if they have yet to have departed they will have to participate with the rest of the nominally professing church in the plagues coming upon her. (Rev 18:4) Many of the Lord’s people need to be prodded just as was Lot before they get the message.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!Matt 24:19

We are in “those days” even now, and it is indeed a sad thing for those who are pregnant, Ministers (servants), teachers and etc. with young ones (“babes in Christ”) who are still nursing upon “the milk of the word” the first principle doctrines, as well as those not yet fully consecrated (the tentatively justified) who are still at the door, “counting the cost” of a full consecration to the Lord.

Both are in a precarious position as there is little time left to fully develop and make ones calling and election sure before the great storm erupts.
 

Hidden In Him

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Ok, good post. This is what I was after.
You see right here is an example where clarification proves useful, I mistakenly assumed you were asking how many do I expect the Lord would reach by not employing “signs and wonders” during the harvest of the Gospel age as he exhibited during the harvest of the Jewish age, not how many we (as Bible Students) expected to reach with our message.

LoL. My fault for not clarifying I suppose.
We don’t expect to reach many as the majority

Ok, I read the rest of this paragraph, but let me ask you right here: Doesn't scripture seem to suggest that the harvest will be plentiful? I mean, if it's not a good catch, or a very good yield on a harvest, it's not much of a harvest yes?
Our primary mission at this time is to help gather the Lords little ones, those begotten of his spirit, (Matt 24:31) into the barn (the condition of security, separateness from the worldly and the worldly church), thus the call at this time, "Come out of her, my people" (Rev 18:4).

it sounds a bit like your group thinks the harvest will arise largely out of the established church rather than out of the world. Is that correct? Your next paragraph seems to suggest it as well.
But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!Matt 24:19

We are in “those days” even now, and it is indeed a sad thing for those who are pregnant, Ministers (servants), teachers and etc.

Ok, this is a spiritualized interpretation of the verse. I don't have problems with spiritualized applications, but do you also believe this will be literally fulfilled in the land of Israel as well? Just curious.
Both are in a precarious position as there is little time left to fully develop and make ones calling and election sure before the great storm erupts.

How much time do you (plural) believe is left then?

@epostle1 Sorry if we are hijacking your thread, bud. I just assumed it had largely played out. If it's an irritation let me know.
 

epostle1

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@epostle1 Sorry if we are hijacking your thread, bud. I just assumed it had largely played out. If it's an irritation let me know.
Not at all, HIH. Threads usually have a life of their own. I think it's funny. Bible Students, the original Jehovah's Witnesses, hijack a thread on Seventh Day Adventists. What these two groups need to do is organize their own football teams. I'd pay top dollar to see the winner play against Notre Dame.
 

epostle1

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THE SDA/NAZI CONNECTION

Journal of Adventist Mission Studies, Vol. 6 [2010], No. 1, Art. 2
(SDA publication)

It is estimated that a staggering 55 million people perished during WW II, including the six million Jews—men, women, and children—who died in the ethnic extermination camps and ghettos across Europe (US Holocaust Museum:2008)... (no mention of the 3 million Polish Catholics and 1000+ priests, italics mine)

...churches in Germany, then looking at the interactions of the Nazi State and the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and concluding with some of the lessons learned from this sad chapter of Adventist history so that hopefully our church will not stumble again over the same issues in the future...(they already have)

It is mind boggling to attempt to understand how the hermeneutical ...contortions of the leading theologians could excuse and even legitimize such actions against any human being; and yet history sadly attests that it happened. The question we need to ask is: In all this, where did the Seventh day Adventist Church stand?...

...Following in the footsteps of the Christian majority, the Seventh-day Adventist Church cannot be commended for its actions during the Nazi Regime. Echoing the praises for the rise of Hitler to power, Adolf Minck, President of the Adventist German Church, penned his satisfaction with the election of Adolf Hitler in the August Edition of Advenbote (the offical periodical of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Germany at that time):

...Another example expressing enthusiasm for the Nazi state was Wilhem Mueller who went so far as to label Hitler as “chosen by God” for the office of chancellor and praising his similarity with Adventism’s health reform:...

...Not only did the Seventh-day Adventist leadership sing praises to the Nazi government, it even went so far as “strongly recommending” how its members were to vote in every plebiscite of the Nazi Regime...

...Sadly, in spite of all the praise and official stance that the church took in favor of the government, the Nazi state decided to ban the Adventist Church on November 26, 1933. This ban lasted until December 6, 1933 (Blaich 1994:262)... (2 weeks)

...The Adventist Church’s pro-government PR campaign became much more aggressive after the ban. It went on to support the notion of the Volkisch state, ascribing validity to that idea and saying it was in accordance with biblical principles. In the December 1933 edition of Gegenwartsfragen, one of the Adventist periodicals, it proudly proclaimed that “we are part of this revolution as well—as individual Christians and also as a corporate denominational body” (Blaich 1994:264). This type of enthusiastic approval of the state was not an isolated incident. The acceptance of the Volk concept with its racial undertones, its ideology of ethnic purity, and its implicit proscription of the Jews due to their racial heritage was accepted by the Seventh-day Adventist Church as part of the gospel proclamation...

... “While continuing the traditional emphasis on healthful living, Adventist publications soon adopted elements of the Nazi racial agenda. . . . A curious path led from caritas, the caring for the less fortunate and weak, to elimination of the weak, as the work of God” (Blaich 2002:180)...

...The church leadership was aware of this twisting of terms and meanings. G. W. Schubert, vice-president of the German Adventist Church, shared his “faint hope” with a fellow vice-President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists that “perhaps this might be the way of the Lord to get the same freedom later on for the distribution of our religious literature” (Blaich 2002:182). That freedom never came and time proved that the compromise was not to be “the way of the Lord.”...

...In a circular passed around on April 4, 1938, the German Union recommended that Adventists hand the Fuhrer “a thankful ‘yes’” (Blaich 1994:265)...

...Furthering its compromise the Adventist Church also agreed with the forced sterilization policy, also known as the Eugenics Laws (Blaich 2002:176). At first the opposition to such policies was open and general among the church members and leadership as it was viewed to be a violation of Christian principles. However in response to this resistance the government responded with an educational campaign that used Adventist journals to defend the new eugenics laws...

...Again, hermeneutical acrobatics were used to defend the government’s position that was based on principles that were completely antagonistic to Adventist beliefs...

...As the eugenics policies became law the opposition to such concepts and legislation was silenced from Adventist publications. Sterilization was only a first step in this racial attack; the next step involved the elimination of those who were deemed to be hazardous elements to the German gene pool. (Blaich 2002:180)....

...As a result the leadership of the Adventist Church recommended that their members should submit to the authorities and not bring any problems among themselves or the church (Blaich 1994:270). As the state regulations against religion increased year after year, the church obeyed them closely in order to avoid a second banishment at the hands of the regime (Pratt 1977:4)...

...the church had little choice but to conform to Nazi standards if it wanted to publish . . . it is also clear that German Adventist leaders eagerly courted Nazi goodwill by accommodating to the new order” (2002:181).by accommodating to the new order” (2002:181). After the war, the Adventist German leadership reacted by closing ranks and resisted all outside pressures from the General Conference to denounce or proscribe their perceived errors. It appears that the actions taken were wholly justified by the German leadership. In a letter to the General Conference President, J. L. McElhany, Adolf Minck expressed this sentiment of self-defense by rationalizing that they had followed church policy, they had maintained the structure of the church, and also that they had had to adapt to living the commandments according to the times they lived in, times of war, and not peace, nonetheless maintaining in their minds the holiness of the Decalogue (Minck 1994:277).

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/...g.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1042&context=jams

Again, this is an SDA publication.


hitler.jpg ellenwhite.jpg
"We have so much in
common...how about a date?
 
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epostle1

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[
There's nothing wrong with Seventh Day Adventists.
Leave them alone.
Pick on muslims instead.
There's nothing wrong with Seventh Day Adventists, except the raging psychotics who post in here. But there is plenty wrong with any sect that invents false histories to justify it's rebellion. In some cases, doctrines and literature revolves around hate.
Leave them alone.
Read much? Maybe the Allies should have left Hitler alone. Maybe the world should have left ISIS alone so they could behead children. The SAD is mentally and spiritually dangerous. You might think differently if the SDA were to attack your threads, whatever it is, with dozens of videos and miles of anti-Rollo lies as your reports go ignored.
Pick on muslims instead.
I am too busy refuting the misrepresentations, the distortions, the lies about the Vatican relations with Islam and the slandering of the Pope by sadistic anti-Catholics who have authority issues. Know anybody like that?


john (1).jpg
isis.jpg
 
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Harvest 1874

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Not at all, HIH. Threads usually have a life of their own. I think it's funny. Bible Students, the original Jehovah's Witnesses, hijack a thread on Seventh Day Adventists. What these two groups need to do is organize their own football teams. I'd pay top dollar to see the winner play against Notre Dame.

Sorry my friend but once again you are misinformed (try looking for information from a legit Bible Student site rather than from some propaganda site you found on the internet). Bible Students existed long before there were any Jehovah's Witness. The Bible Student movement began as early as 1876 whereas the JW's a sect or splinter group which broke off from the original Bible Students a little after 1916 did not have their actual beginnings until 1931.

Oh, and so the Bible Students (plural) have hijacked your thread, who are the Bible Students (plural) you refer to? I didn't know there were any other Bible Students on this forum.
 
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quietthinker

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There's nothing wrong with Seventh Day Adventists, except the raging psychotics who post in here. But there is plenty wrong with any sect that invents false histories to justify it's rebellion. In some cases, doctrines and literature revolves around hate. Read much? Maybe the Allies should have left Hitler alone. Maybe the world should have left ISIS alone so they could behead children. The SAD is mentally and spiritually dangerous. You might think differently if the SDA were to attack your threads, whatever it is, with dozens of videos and miles of anti-Rollo lies as your reports go ignored.
I am too busy refuting the misrepresentations, the distortions, the lies about the Vatican relations with Islam and the slandering of the Pope by sadistic anti-Catholics who have authority issues. Know anybody like that?


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History is not on the side of the RC system so it must engage subterfuge and denial to bolster its ego. It is plain for all who want to look into history to see. That does not mean it will not attempt to gain the ascendancy and for a short time it will appear to men to have done so yet the scripture is clear, it is God who rules the affairs of men and it is he who will bring falsehood and oppression to an end. Yes, the time is closing in faster than is realised.
 

epostle1

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Sorry my friend but once again you are misinformed (try looking for information from a legit Bible Student site rather than from some propaganda site you found on the internet). Bible Students existed long before there were any Jehovah's Witness. The Bible Student movement began as early as 1876 whereas the JW's a sect or splinter group which broke off from the original Bible Students a little after 1916 did not have their actual beginnings until 1931.
Did I step on a nerve? I said "Bible Students, the original Jehovah's Witnesses". Translated, it means Bible Students PREDATE Jehovah's Witlesses. Translated again, it means JW.s are an offshoot of Bible Students. But don't you claim to have your beginnings in 33+ A.D.??? Or is it, "...upon this rock I will build my church... in 1931???
Oh, and so the Bible Students (plural) have hijacked your thread, who are the Bible Students (plural) you refer to? I didn't know there were any other Bible Students on this forum.
There are JW.s on this forum. I need a magnifying glass to tell you guys apart. You are both Rutherfordonians. Or is that Rutherfordites? No matter,
I remind you that is a thread about the SDA's. I made brief mention of the BS and I apologize if I split the hair at the wrong end. ____________________

I have learned that BS prefer the NKJV over the WTS so there is hope for me.


Anthony.jpg

St. Anthony of Padua
was known in his own day as the
“Hammer of Heretics” due to the powerful
witness of his life and preaching.
 
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quietthinker

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Quiet, why do you accuse everyone who happens to disagree with you as having an ego problem?
Firstly, your statement is inaccurate, secondly, lovelessness and the desire to be superior reveal an unhealthy ego.
 

Enoch111

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I remind you that is a thread about the SDA's. I made brief mention of the BS and I apologize if I split the hair at the wrong end.
Bible Students have some doctrines in common with SDAs:
1. "Man is mortal and does not possess an immortal soul. The soul ceases to exist after death." [Soul Sleep is the SDA teaching]

2. "There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished. "Hell" is from the same Greek and Hebrew words for "grave," describing the sleep of death, not eternal torment." [this could be somewhat modified].

 

Hidden In Him

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Firstly, your statement is inaccurate, secondly, lovelessness and the desire to be superior reveal an unhealthy ego.

You accused me of the same thing. I'm assuming this was your justification as well.
But as for Epostle, I don't pick that up at all. I just think he disagrees with you. And I think you use this mechanism to belittle others, which is something of a habit of yours. It suggests this is something you yourself may actually be guilty of, so you are projecting it unto others.

I don't say it simply to give you a hard time. I say it because I think you're better than that.
 
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quietthinker

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You accused me of the same thing. I'm assuming this was your justification as well.
But as for Epostle, I don't pick that up at all. I just think he disagrees with you. And I think you use this mechanism to belittle others, which is something of a habit of yours. It suggests this is something you yourself may actually be guilty of, so you are projecting it unto others.

I don't say it simply to give you a hard time. I say it because I think you're better than that.

Any rebuke rejected will be interpreted as belittling even one given in kindness.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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There's nothing wrong with Seventh Day Adventists, except the raging psychotics who post in here. But there is plenty wrong with any sect that invents false histories to justify it's rebellion. In some cases, doctrines and literature revolves around hate. Read much? Maybe the Allies should have left Hitler alone. Maybe the world should have left ISIS alone so they could behead children. The SAD is mentally and spiritually dangerous. You might think differently if the SDA were to attack your threads, whatever it is, with dozens of videos and miles of anti-Rollo lies as your reports go ignored.
I am too busy refuting the misrepresentations, the distortions, the lies about the Vatican relations with Islam and the slandering of the Pope by sadistic anti-Catholics who have authority issues. Know anybody like that?


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good morning
yes, I welcome you a new day too

I disagree
First, I didn't know that the Seventh Day Adventists were militants to the degree of Hitler and ISIS
Second, I didn't know they were militants at all/
In fact, the only Christian church I've ever known to be militants are the romanists.

Third, i suggested you attack the muslims instead and you attack me with muslims instead
Do you know what you are doing and saying?
Did anyone ever tell you that ISIS are muslims?

I have been to a Saturday morning service at a Seventh Day Adventist church.
Didn't care for it but I was treated with respect by everyone.
Do you really know anything about them or is it just talk?
 

Helen

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There's nothing wrong with Seventh Day Adventists.
Leave them alone.
Pick on muslims instead.

Hmmm are you sure Rolly ? ? ?

But they are trying to "save us all" by warning us that if we hold to Sunday as "The Lords Sabbath" then we are taking the mark of the beast and will end up in hell.

I don't hold with either, I believe in and hold that CHRIST is our Sabbath...24/7 but they only give Him one day!!

And as I do not hold with the same 'hell' that they believe in .. I don't count...but you do!!! :D
So take good care my friend. :)
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Hmmm are you sure Rolly ? ? ?

But they are trying to "save us all" by warning us that if we hold to Sunday as "The Lords Sabbath" then we are taking the mark of the beast and will end up in hell.

I don't hold with either, I believe in and hold that CHRIST is our Sabbath...24/7 but they only give Him one day!!

And as I do not hold with the same 'hell' that they believe in .. I don't count...but you do!!! :D
So take good care my friend. :)
AND NOT A WORD ABOUT THE MUSLIMS WHO WANT TO KILL US ALL AND TAKE OVER THE EARTH.
i GUESS THEY DON'T COUNT....BUT YOU DO!!!
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Hmmm are you sure Rolly ? ? ?

But they are trying to "save us all" by warning us that if we hold to Sunday as "The Lords Sabbath" then we are taking the mark of the beast and will end up in hell.

I don't hold with either, I believe in and hold that CHRIST is our Sabbath...24/7 but they only give Him one day!!

And as I do not hold with the same 'hell' that they believe in .. I don't count...but you do!!! :D
So take good care my friend. :)
Y'know, I have to ask...when did a Seventh Day Adventist ever tell you that you were going to hell for not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?
Do you remember when?
Do you remember the person's name?
Do you remember where it happened?
Can you share that with us?

ever see it on TV?
Ever watch someone do it on youtube?
Did you hear it "live" on the radio?
Did Breadman tell you?

Share please.....
 

Helen

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Y'know, I have to ask...when did a Seventh Day Adventist ever tell you that you were going to hell for not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?
Do you remember when?
Do you remember the person's name?
Do you remember where it happened?
Can you share that with us?

ever see it on TV?
Ever watch someone do it on youtube?
Did you hear it "live" on the radio?
Did Breadman tell you?

Share please.....

Come on dear friend...where have you been? o_O
It was written earlier on , on this very SITE...when all this SDA started getting braver and coming out of the woodwork after THBE joined here...and their doctrines started getting pushed and flooding the site.

You have obviously not been reading anything much on here for the last while.
It started June 12th
So just go back and read all his posts and those of his friends Brakelight , Quietthinker and Phoneman777 you'll find it.

( unless they have now hurriedly deleted it!! It happens. Read it with my own eyes. And I am sure many others did too. )

And even if you go back to Willies Dance thread where I mentioned it again...and THBE said we haven't got the mark yet.

So Rolly you still have time to repent...so you wont go to hell if you never ever do the "Sunday meeting thing"....you must do it right, like them...then you'll be safe from the Mark.
They say that they are warning us in love...
So, God Luv ya...
 
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