SDA: Seventh Dilemma Adventism

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Y'know, I have to ask...when did a Seventh Day Adventist ever tell you that you were going to hell for not keeping a Saturday Sabbath?
The official SDA position is:

Sunday Worship = Taking the Mark of the Beast
  1. "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
http://www.bible.ca/7-mark-beast.htm

And according to Scripture all who take that Mark are damned for eternity.

But according to Scripture, the first day of the week is "the Lord's Day" -- the day for Christian worship, and also the Christian Sabbath.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The official SDA position is:

Sunday Worship = Taking the Mark of the Beast
  1. "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)
http://www.bible.ca/7-mark-beast.htm

And according to Scripture all who take that Mark are damned for eternity.

But according to Scripture, the first day of the week is "the Lord's Day" -- the day for Christian worship, and also the Christian Sabbath.

Your post was much better than mine. :)
 

Rollo Tamasi

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2017
2,317
1,512
113
73
Inverness, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Come on dear friend...where have you been? o_O
It was written earlier on , on this very SITE...when all this SDA started getting braver and coming out of the woodwork after THBE joined here...and their doctrines started getting pushed and flooding the site.

You have obviously not been reading anything much on here for the last while.
It started June 12th
So just go back and read all his posts and those of his friends Brakelight , Quietthinker and Phoneman777 you'll find it.

( unless they have now hurriedly deleted it!! It happens. Read it with my own eyes. And I am sure many others did too. )

And even if you go back to Willies Dance thread where I mentioned it again...and THBE said we haven't got the mark yet.

So Rolly you still have time to repent...so you wont go to hell if you never ever do the "Sunday meeting thing"....you must do it right, like them...then you'll be safe from the Mark.
They say that they are warning us in love...
So, God Luv ya...
I'd gladly be a Seventh Day Adventist then some of the other protestant denominations I've attended.
It's the people.
Some main stream denoms with people that make
Christianity a horror story.
I can't say that about the Seventh Day Adventists.
 

Rollo Tamasi

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2017
2,317
1,512
113
73
Inverness, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your post was much better than mine. :)
No where is Scripture does it say Sunday is the new Christian Sabbath.
Question;
Why didn't any Christians throughout the history of Christianity change the way the 10 Commandments read to make it correct?
Because what you are saying is not correct.
You find a few people on this forum who agree with you and now you think you are right.
People who have things in common hang out together.
that doesn't make them right.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Ok. :) But a false accusation given in kindness isn't exactly what I'd call ministry now is it, LoL. But well enough.
Hidden, there is no false accusation let alone your charge of accusing everyone I disagree with. Please bring forth the evidence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rollo Tamasi

Rollo Tamasi

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2017
2,317
1,512
113
73
Inverness, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Come on dear friend...where have you been? o_O
It was written earlier on , on this very SITE...when all this SDA started getting braver and coming out of the woodwork after THBE joined here...and their doctrines started getting pushed and flooding the site.

You have obviously not been reading anything much on here for the last while.
It started June 12th
So just go back and read all his posts and those of his friends Brakelight , Quietthinker and Phoneman777 you'll find it.

( unless they have now hurriedly deleted it!! It happens. Read it with my own eyes. And I am sure many others did too. )

And even if you go back to Willies Dance thread where I mentioned it again...and THBE said we haven't got the mark yet.

So Rolly you still have time to repent...so you wont go to hell if you never ever do the "Sunday meeting thing"....you must do it right, like them...then you'll be safe from the Mark.
They say that they are warning us in love...
So, God Luv ya...
Who or what is THBE and where is who or what is it or he talking about?
You have left it very unclear what I should be looking for.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I don't hold with either, I believe in and hold that CHRIST is our Sabbath...24/7 but they only give Him one day!!
Yes, Christ is our Sabbath but does that give you permission to disregard and break his Commandments?
BG, it is not a denominational matter. It is a matter of obeying God which means his Commandments.
When you say 'they' only give him one day, is that not a blanket judgement on people you don't know? Do you think that is a wise approach?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Who or what is THBE ?

The person who calls them self TheHolyBookEnds
You can start at June 12 and read all his posts .

But if you never keep or believe in Sundays as the majority of Christians do...but you keep the Sabbath as the SDA do, then you are quite safe...no worries...you aren't choosing the Mark of the Beast like the rest of the ignorant naughty christians are..., so you wont go to hell...that should make you day.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
It is a matter of obeying God which means his Commandments.

So you and all the other followers keep all the commandments do you?

So how come you and the SDA can all do it, but the poor idiots who had to use the blood of bulls and goats ....could not keep God commandments so God sent His Son? Amazing!

" For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, ..."

If God did it...why are you still doing it?
Tell the rest of us HOW you keep the commandments?
You can obviously do what 4,000 years could not do.

And then tell us why Jesus bothered to come and die for mankind...if man "could" somehow keep the commandments.

And please don't defer to your friend THBE ...I don't want to hear for him, I want to hear it from you.

Thanks....H
 

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hidden, there is no false accusation let alone your charge of accusing everyone I disagree with. Please bring forth the evidence.

What's worse than accusing is when you then turn around and act innocent as if you didn't. Please don't play stupid with me. You did this with me and I saw you doing it with him, and I found it habitual and annoying. You attribute people not agreeing with you to their ego, whether supposedly denominationally or individually.
History is not on the side of the RC system so it must engage subterfuge and denial to bolster its ego.

This in and of itself is petty enough, but your denials and making me have to go all the way back through this thread to find your quotes when you know perfectly well what I am talking about is just... adolescent. The membership of this forum is of a higher quality than for you to be playing little games like this. Cut it out.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So you and all the other followers keep all the commandments do you?

So how come you and the SDA can all do it, but the poor idiots who had to use the blood of bulls and goats ....could not keep God commandments so God sent His Son? Amazing!

" For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, ..."

If God did it...why are you still doing it?
Tell the rest of us HOW you keep the commandments?
You can obviously do what 4,000 years could not do.

And then tell us why Jesus bothered to come and die for mankind...if man "could" somehow keep the commandments.

And please don't defer to your friend THBE ...I don't want to hear for him, I want to hear it from you.

Thanks....H
Helen, without God's Spirit it is impossible to keep God's Commandments. The default position of humans is resistance and rebellion against them.

Being 'religious' is no substitute for God's approval although men think it is.
If you look for excuses to break his Commandments having a knowledge of God, it is certain that the spirit that motivates you is not from God.

Jesus died to pay the penalty of his broken law. His death, for those who embrace it, ie those who recognise and acknowledge their sin and are grateful for being (past, present continuous) delivered, are now in a position to be saved from sin, meaning they will receive power to overcome sin.
God will write his commandments on our heart, ie he will give us the desire and the willingness to obey him. If we have no desire or are indifferent to obeying his commandments all though we claim to know God, John tells us we are liars and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:3-6
'We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says 'I know him' but does not do what he commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, Gods love is truly made complete in him. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked.

To give lip service to some of God's Commandments while denying others; to continue to make excuses and to break them is none other than spitting in God's face.

Our salvation is from sin not in sin. His Spirit enables us to do what is pleasing to him, it enables us to love righteousness and abhor sin and as you know, sin is defined by the transgression of the Law and righteousness by obedience to it.

The yoke that Jesus asks us to carry is none other than obedience to God's Commandments. He tells us that his yoke is light and his burden easy. We are never given a directive to abandon Gods Commandments for any reason, they are the Law of Life.

If you would enter into life Jesus tells the rich young ruler, obey the Commandments. Matthew 19:17

It is all or nothing. We are committed or we are not. All who think they can please themselves in this matter have succumbed to the deception that is sweeping the Christian world.

Revelation 3:14-18
14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God: 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art the wretched one and miserable and poor and blind and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest; and eyesalve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What's worse than accusing is when you then turn around and act innocent as if you didn't. Please don't play stupid with me. You did this with me and I saw you doing it with him, and I found it habitual and annoying. You attribute people not agreeing with you to their ego, whether supposedly denominationally or individually.


This in and of itself is petty enough, but your denials and making me have to go all the way back through this thread to find your quotes when you know perfectly well what I am talking about is just... adolescent. The membership of this forum is of a higher quality than for you to be playing little games like this. Cut it out.

Evidence please!
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Jesus died to pay the penalty of his broken law. His death, for those who embrace it, ie those who recognise and acknowledge their sin and are grateful for being (past, present continuous) delivered, are now in a position to be saved from sin, meaning they will receive power to overcome sin.
God will write his commandments on our heart, ie he will give us the desire and the willingness to obey him. If we have no desire or are indifferent to obeying his commandments all though we claim to know God, John tells us we are liars and the truth is not in us.

Sorry I still find this confusing.
It seems on one side you are saying we were delivered from the consequence of breaking the law ( via Adam)

But on the other hand you are still saying that we have to keep the commandments/law.

I asked how well is this working for you?
God sent Jesus because He knows man cannot, has not, and never will be able to keep the commandments.

Yet I still see you saying that we 'have to'.
So..like I say..what is your track record? Do you think any man can do it?
Even with the Holy Spirit...man cannot.

So what do you do with all the "in Christ" scriptures?
Paul says that "in Christ" we ( sinful man ) are dead....and "in Him" we are perfect in His perfection...that is our position ...but sadly our condition is not where our spiritual position is. We "in ourselves" fall short...that is why we have a "blessed hope" in Christ.

Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree here ... :)
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Grow up please!
Hidden, you have made statements that are untrue and you won't acknowledge that you speak from what you imagine.
Are we not called to speak truthfully?
I hereby challenge you to produce the evidence.
Bluster, name calling and diversion will never wash what you assert.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,847
7,752
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
ByGrace said:
Sorry I still find this confusing.
1.. It seems on one side you are saying we were delivered from the consequence of breaking the law ( via Adam)

2.. But on the other hand you are still saying that we have to keep the commandments/law.

3.. I asked how well is this working for you?
4.. God sent Jesus because He knows man cannot, has not, and never will be able to keep the commandments.

5.. Yet I still see you saying that we 'have to'.
6.. So..like I say..what is your track record? Do you think any man can do it?
7.. Even with the Holy Spirit...man cannot.

8.. So what do you do with all the "in Christ" scriptures?
9.. Paul says that "in Christ" we ( sinful man ) are dead....and "in Him" we are perfect in His perfection...that is our position ...but sadly our condition is not where our spiritual position is. We "in ourselves" fall short...that is why we have a "blessed hope" in Christ.

Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree here ... :)[/QUOTE]


MY REPLY
1.. Yes, we are delivered from the consequences of breaking the law not just through Adam but also our own deliberate choices.
This is a part of the free gift. The other part is deliverance from the power of sin. For both of these Jesus died.

2.. Do we now deliberately break the law because we have been delivered from the consequences? No no no.
Romans 6:15-18
v15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid.

v16 Know ye not, that to whom ye present yourselves [as] servants unto obedience, his servants ye are whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

v17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered; 18 and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.

v18 You have been set free from sin and become slaves of righteousness.

3.. I love God's Law. I have found it liberating though not without struggle against the flesh. I fail often.

4.. Only without Gods Spirit as our comforter, help and guide is it impossible.

5.. Does your expression 'have to' in regards to keeping Gods law mean it is a burden for you??
For me it is a privilege to be enabled to be desirous and willing to obey. A privilege that those who misrepresent God know nothing of. They are stuck in their carnality and can see no other.

6.. refer to answer 4 & 5

7.. This is Satans lie. Did not Jesus keep the law? Did he not have the same flesh as us?
1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did

8.. The 'in Christ' references in scripture are our assurance that the treasure we have is secure. Our treasure is where moth and rust cannot corrupt. We are incorporated in him in heavenly realms. Ephesians 2:6 This is by faith. It is not in our literal experience now. Ephesians chapters 1 & 2 put this into context. We wait patiently by faith till Jesus is revealed in the clouds at his second coming when what we now have by faith we will have by sight (our literal physical experience) When this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption. 1Corinthians 15:53-54

9.. Yes we do have a hope. This hope however is not to be used as an excuse to continue to sin deliberately by breaking his law.

This applies to all of Gods Commandments. Can you hear it?

A sovereign's identity is in his/her seal. It consists of the Name, Title and Domain of the Sovereign. For example; Queen Elizabeth of England.
Her name ... Elizabeth
Her title ... Queen
Her domain ... England

Gods rule, his kingdom which he is sovereign over is identified in the heart of his law, the 4th Commandment. It identifies who wrote the law. It is his seal. Exodus 20:8-12

His name ... The LORD God
His Title ... Creator
His Domain ... Heaven and Earth

His subjects acknowledge and keep his Law, they bear his seal.
Those who are not his subjects do not keep his law, they keep that of another, the usurper and they carry his mark, ie his identifying seal.

The usurper has been in conflict with God's Law since the beginning and so have his subjects. This conflict, reflected in the laws of the land will be carried through till the end, becoming intense as the time closes in.

Has it crossed your mind why the Commandments are an issue, particularly the day of worship? Have you noticed that the numbering of the days of the week on calendars around the world are being altered. The 1st day of the week (Sunday) is being printed as the 7th day of the week (Sabbath). The numbering of the other days of the week are altered to follow suit. Here in Australia both types of numbering are still being used by different printers. I understand in Europe the transition is near complete if not complete. How is it in the US/Canada?

Have you wondered why this is happening without the people being consulted??

There is much more to say about this which THBE in his posts has attempted to bring to the peoples attention yet their ears are dull, some even closing them. Will you close them also?

Finally, I have not figured out how others are able to cut and paste the quotes of others into their replies. If you've got any clues, please let me know. thanks, k.
 
Last edited:

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,476
21,157
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
His subjects acknowledge and keep his Law, they bear his seal.
Those who are not his subjects do not keep his law, they keep that of another, the usurper and they carry his mark, ie his identifying seal.

Thanks for your reply.
It is the above where I cannot see why people who believe that feel that it is well pleasing to God.
But I have already voiced that...we don't want to get into "dog and tail" circular postings. :)

I will just say that you can say that that you, and your 'friends' keep the law.
When God took 4000 to show man that he could not.

Where I sit is..JESUS gave us two commandments...and said that in these two hang all the law and the prophets ...Matt 22:36-40

Jesus shows us that in LOVE, if kept, enfolds all the law of God...we will do, because we love.
John 6:28 “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent."

Nothing complicate..but right to the heart of the issue.
Because He is the only answer...He is the only fulfilment of God's Law.

But never mind my old dad had a saying he like to quote often:-
" A man convinced against his will, ... is of the same opinion still."

Neither of us are going to change our position are we. :)

Bless you, nice talking to you. Helen.
 

Harvest 1874

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2018
1,100
573
113
62
Tampa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doesn't scripture seem to suggest that the harvest will be plentiful? I mean, if it's not a good catch, or a very good yield on a harvest, it's not much of a harvest yes?

It depends on what you are harvesting.

Now it’s true our Lord did say in Matt 9:37 that “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few”, but here we believe the suggestion was not that there were a great many to be harvested, but rather that the harvest itself is truly great, a great work in comparison to the few who are ready and willing to do the work.

It will be recalled that out of the Jewish harvest there was only a “remnant” that was selected; the majority consisted of “chaff”.

“Keep in mind they were a typical people and what was true then, is true now. Not all the Jews were gathered, millions weren’t, but the Lord spoke of those who were gathered as plenteous, all of good characters, and he was satisfied. He will be satisfied with what he gets out of the Gentiles likewise. But the point of the argument seems to be that the laborers are few, more work than the laborers could do. There is plenty for all, and work for more. So he said, pray ye the Lord of the harvest that he will send more laborers. Such should expect that the Lord would send them. Apply the same thing now -- do not expect that the harvest work here will include millions, but a considerable number.”

Only a remnant in the Harvest of each dispensation (both Jewish and Gospel) are prepared to receive the truths due and to enter into the special privileges of the dawning dispensation.

The harvesters (reapers) should expect just what they find, only here a little and there a little wheat in the midst of a great mass of tares with which the whole field is overrun, and that comparatively small number must be sought out with great care; for it is of great value.

This, the harvest of the wheat is the harvest referred to in Rev 14:14-16:

Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man (our Lord, the “Lord of the Harvest”), having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle (the sickle of truth, the device for harvesting). And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud,Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for you to reap, for the [wheat] harvest of the earth is ripe.” So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.”

The Harvest Message is sent forth throughout Christendom, but the majority (being “tares” and preferring those with “itching ears” who tell them just what they want to hear), will not hear.

And so there yet remains another far larger harvest to come, the harvest of “the vine of the earth”. The Lord not only sends the sickle of truth to gather the wheat, but he also sends the strong delusions to gather the tares.

Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying,Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters (i.e. the “bundles”, Matt 13:30, the various religious denominations) of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God (the great time of trouble).” Rev 14:17-19

When our Lord said he was the TRUE vine, he thus prophesied that there would be a FALSE vine likewise, an apostate Christ or church, Babylon the Great, here it is at its maturity, fully ripe.

It sounds a bit like your group thinks the harvest will arise largely out of the established church rather than out of the world. Is that correct? Your next paragraph seems to suggest it as well.

The majority of the Lord’s true people (this side of the vail) are located presently in two areas, the more mature (or ripened); “the wise virgins” are mostly in the wilderness condition located outside of orthodoxy. Those not fully ripened, consisting of both “babes in Christ”, and the “foolish virgins” are for the most part still in Babylon, some still members of one or another of the various nominal branches, and some although not practicing members of such organizations are still clinging to some of the errors taught by such.

Ok, this is a spiritualized interpretation of the verse. I don't have problems with spiritualized applications, but do you also believe this will be literally fulfilled in the land of Israel as well? Just curious.

We believe that many things written with respects to events to come carry both symbolic and literal meaning, but one must be careful not to step over the line, as many have.

As for the suggestion that those who are pregnant or nursing children when the great time of trouble breaks out will suffer, most definitely, and not simply those in Israel alone, but everywhere. When the time of trouble breaks forth and reaches its climax, that is “when every man’s hand is turned against his neighbor” do you imagine that there will be many who will take pity on children or that there will be to many operating hospitals for those who are in labor?

How much time do you (plural) believe is left then?

What’s the (plural) about?

The time is short, even at the doors for the great time of trouble to break out into full swing, for those who are awake there are many signs, one of the most significant is the gathering of the Lord’s great army (the restless “sea class” of mankind, discontents, trouble makers, anarchist and etc.) they show their faces more and more all the time at every little event. It is but a matter of time before one of these events becomes the catalyst which causes the whole thing to erupt, and like a domino spread throughout the world.

However according to prophecy there is still yet another great war to be fought in the Middle East between Israel and the Arabs prior to the invasion of Gog from the land of Magog.