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Philip James

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I guess you don't seem to understand the Catholic organization is the corruption that Paul was talking about in The Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.

If you believe that, then you should be with Alexandria, or Constantinople..

So stop looking at 'religion' and the organizations of men to quantify the church.

You do err in thinking the Church is an organization of men.

Rather it is a community founded by Christ through the apostles,

A community bound together in the celebration od the Eucharist throughout time and space..

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.


Pax et Bonum
 

amigo de christo

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The problem with the CC and many within also the protestant realm is
the leaders are saying , DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO . cause they teach the folks to give
and yet they sure seem to be a fleecing them ol flocks .
Some folks can appear humble but ya gotta watch their fruits . Their fruits are gonna give them away .
Many people within any church can appear pious , holy , doing much good things
They can sing praises , pray like no other , and seem so loving and yet , THEY EMBRACE THEIR SIN
THEY JUSTIFY their sin . Any who does that KNOWETH NOT GOD nor the CHRIST HE DID SEND .
Example . I see many outright gay men and women , who can pray like no other
they can cry with folks , they can do all kinds of good works if someone needs something
YET they embrace their homosexuality . Ponder on that for a bit .
OR same scenario different sin , Many can do much good works , BUT LOVE and HEAP UP that money .
Many can appear geuniune , but i tell us all , LOOK at their FRUIT . Cause if their FRUIT TO SIN
THey aint of the GOOD TREE . NO lamb would justify sin . Let us remember this well
cause the new love god getting preached SURE SEEMS TO EMBRACE EVERYONES PATH . THAT SOUNDS LIKE satan , NOT GOD .
 
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Philip James

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Now read Romans 14 for what I was talking about. Catholics do not allow deviation from their official narrative.

What chosen narrative would that be?
As i showed you in the catechism the Church teaches that one cannot act contrary to their concience. To do so would be to condemn oneself..

Pax et Bonum
 

ScottA

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Is there anything else besides the sacrifice of the Eucharist that could fulfill Malachi 1:11 ?
The Eucharist is for us to do in remembrance of what Christ has done by His sacrifice. But our own sacrifice that we are called to do, is as He said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23
 

Philip James

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But our own sacrifice that we are called to do, is as He said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23

Excellent!
Now that we have established that there continues to be sacrifice,

what then is the pure offering, of Malachi 1:11

Can we offer ourselves apart fron Christ One offering?

Everywhere from east to west (somewhere even at this moment) my brothers and sisters gather as a community to offer not just their sufferings, but especially their praise and thanksgiving in union with the One sacrifice of the Lamb of God, our High Priest!

That One offering that HE first made 'when the hour had come'
.(Exo 12:6)

Pax et Bonum
 
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Jim B

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Excellent!
Now that we have established that there continues to be sacrifice,

what then is the pure offering, of Malachi 1:11

Can we offer ourselves apart fron Christ One offering?

Everywhere from east to west (somewhere even at this moment) my brothers and sisters gather as a community to offer not just their sufferings, but especially their praise and thanksgiving in union with the One sacrifice of the Lamb of God, our High Priest!

That One offering that HE first made 'when the hour had come'
.(Exo 12:6)

Pax et Bonum

You do realize that there are two covenants, correct? The Old Covenant, the Mosaic law, which required sacrifice, and the New Covenant, which has one completed sacrifice: Jesus Christ.
 

Ferris Bueller

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If you believe that, then you should be with Alexandria, or Constantinople.
How 'bout I just read my Bible and talk about it with others who read their Bibles and have fellowship and prayer and praise and worship with them and lose all the hocus pocus of cold dead rituals and scripted church gatherings?
 

Philip James

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I am told over and over in this forum that the Catholic establishment is THE church. The one and only church.

The Church, being the body of Christ is One, and thus catholic by definition.

If you believe those in communion with the Bishop of Rome no longer practice the One Faith, then you should be with Alexandria or Constantinople.. What other contenders are there?

That which our brothers and sisters have believed and practiced everywhere by all (the very definition of catholic) must be the 'deposit of faith' once received through the apostles..

And everywhere you find the whole life of the Church centred on the Eucharist, is is should be! For the Eucharist is Christ Himself!

If you're not a practicing Catholic you're not saved, right? Baptism and Communion by a Catholic priest being essential for salvation, right?

If you know Jesus is waiting there on the altar for you, and you refuse to come to the feast, I guess that's between you and Him, as I will also have to answer for my actions.

'to whom much is given, much is expected'



How 'bout I just read my Bible and talk about it with others who read their Bibles and have fellowship and prayer and praise and worship with them

Thats awesome! I love that you love to read scripture and discuss it and gather to worship and praise our Great God!

But those same scriptures testify of Christ and the banquet He has set before us...

Be not afraid!

and lose all the hocus pocus of cold dead rituals and scripted church gatherings?

Who wants cold dead rituals?

Ah, but the celebration of the Divine Mysteries cannot be either..

The Creator of the universe is manifest there before you!

Pax et Bonum
 

ScottA

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The Church, being the body of Christ is One, and thus catholic by definition.

If you believe those in communion with the Bishop of Rome no longer practice the One Faith, then you should be with Alexandria or Constantinople.. What other contenders are there?

That which our brothers and sisters have believed and practiced everywhere by all (the very definition of catholic) must be the 'deposit of faith' once received through the apostles..

And everywhere you find the whole life of the Church centred on the Eucharist, is is should be! For the Eucharist is Christ Himself!



If you know Jesus is waiting there on the altar for you, and you refuse to come to the feast, I guess that's between you and Him, as I will also have to answer for my actions.

'to whom much is given, much is expected'





Thats awesome! I love that you love to read scripture and discuss it and gather to worship and praise our Great God!

But those same scriptures testify of Christ and the banquet He has set before us...

Be not afraid!



Who wants cold dead rituals?

Ah, but the celebration of the Divine Mysteries cannot be either..

The Creator of the universe is manifest there before you!

Pax et Bonum
Philip,

None of this denominational rub that exist to and from the Catholic church would even be happening if there were no lording over hierarchy, fanciful robes and such, and an exclusivity that is so against the directions Jesus gave to the twelve, saying, “If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.

I have Catholic friends and family, and my wife and I attend many Catholic services, but they consider it beneath them to reciprocate. Jesus was not at all like that, nor would He condone such actions. And if not like Jesus...how is that even to be considered His church?

Can you see the problem?
 

Illuminator

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Philip,

None of this denominational rub that exist to and from the Catholic church would even be happening if there were no lording over hierarchy, fanciful robes and such, and an exclusivity that is so against the directions Jesus gave to the twelve, saying, “If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.
A "lording over hierarchy"? A hierarchy, yes, Jesus established a hierarchy, but when did the "lording over" start? When did the historic Church go off the rails? Nowhere does the bible say the historic Church would be overcome by evil. Attacked, yes, but not overcome. It's biblically impossible. Your "lording over" is just fear mongering nonsense. One of the Pope's titles is "Servant of the Servants" but you don't get it.
I have Catholic friends and family, and my wife and I attend many Catholic services,
Good. I hope you listen and watch carefully.
but they consider it beneath them to reciprocate.
With a stupid attitude like that, how can you call them friends???
Jesus was not at all like that, nor would He condone such actions. And if not like Jesus...how is that even to be considered His church?
You want to participate in communion without being in communion. You don't like what you refuse to understand. You don't want to be rude by disrespecting our rules. I'll give you credit for that much.
 

ScottA

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A "lording over hierarchy"? A hierarchy, yes, Jesus established a hierarchy, but when did the "lording over" start? When did the historic Church go off the rails? Nowhere does the bible say the historic Church would be overcome by evil. Attacked, yes, but not overcome. It's biblically impossible. Your "lording over" is just fear mongering nonsense. One of the Pope's titles is "Servant of the Servants" but you don't get it.
Good. I hope you listen and watch carefully.
With a stupid attitude like that, how can you call them friends??? You want to participate in communion without being in communion. You don't like what you refuse to understand. You don't want to be rude by disrespecting our rules. I'll give you credit for that much.
I understand that there is 2,000 years of emotion involved with this issue (just as there was between Moses and Jesus).

But you are mistaking the power of God given to Christ and to His church, as a hierarchy among the church. What do the scriptures say? That Christ is the head over many wives of different authority? No, but only, "the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church."

Thus, the difference is not a hierarchy of authority, but of gifts only, and to each the power of God.

As for the church going "off the rails", I tell you, as history will attest, it was never fully on the rails. There were twelve apostles and one was a devil. There were seven churches named by Jesus of whom most he had somewhat against. And those planted by Paul, were they all exemplary? And today?

As for the Pope, not even Solomon--who was a king, was so adorned.

But you are correct to say that the church would never be overcome by evil. But that does not make void that which was foretold regarding destructive heresies brought in by false teachers, teachers who now have many more children than she who has a husband.

But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
 

Philip James

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Can you see the problem?

Hi Scott,

Now there's a question.. :D

I would point out here that we're moving away from the discusssion about the celebration of the Eucharist being the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11 and are moving on to the actions of members of the Church..

The problem? That men can be proud, arrogant, selfish, cowardly, insensitive, lazy....

Lets start with 'lording it over others'. This leads to a discussion of authority in the Church, how is it excercised etc..

Does the abuse of legitimate authority negate that authority? Consider Saul and David..

If some of the members of the Church, (and especialy some of its elders) act contrary to the things the Church teaches, does that invalidate the Church?
What of all those holy men and women who have served faithfully and well?

Do we abandon the 11 because of Judas?

Are we so pure that we cant abide all these sinners that gather around Jesus?

Do the actions of our brethren justify rebellion and abandonment of the community?

When we look at the Church as a whole. Do we see the failings of men, or do we see the bride of Christ, washed clean in His Blood?

The Holy Spirit is not a spirit of division, but calls us to bear with one another in love!

Pax et Bonum