Spotting the Heretic

[Behold]

Then the apostle John is also guilty of everything that you hold me guilty of (I am in good company)...

First of all, stop trying to sound like me.
You can't do it, so, try to be yourself in "sound".
Next.
Paul said, "if you walk in the Spirit, you will not sin".
John said, "If WE say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves".
Only to the self saving Heretic are these verses perceived as "contradicting".
So, to you, they are.....and if you had listened to me 3 weeks ago or 4, when i first started trying to help you, you would be believing right at this point.
But instead, you wanted to appear on the Forum as "advanced, and smart, and theologically mature", so, you ended up with nothing.
Same as you were.
You post colorful verses and you like remind us that you are a "teacher".
Sad.

 

[brionne]

-
There are believers who want to indoctrinate you into their harmful theology. This is their mission in life. They feel they are "led of the Spirit" to actually cause harm regarding the Faith of real born again believers.
So, how to recognize them?
How to know who is the liar, and who is the Truth.

Now i have a strong and unrelenting point of view about a certain heresy, because i have seen the damage it causes churches, Christians, and the heretics themselves. This theology is an extreme spiritual poison. Its an infection of the mind and spiritual condition. It literally can make you crazy. Especially if you are a sincere and true believer who above all things wants to please God.

The True Believers, if they are caught up in this hellish circular reasoning theology, become more and more upset and there is NO simple remedy. See, what happens if you get infected by the people who are spreading this spiritual deceit, is that the bible and the devil begin to work together to condemn you to the point where you will begin to obsess on THE idea that you are lost, and hell bound. The bible becomes a punishing enemy as all it seems to do is show you that you are going to hell. Ive seen it. Ive dealt with believers who are caught up in the devil's lie, and TAUGHT IT by other believers. Ive witnessed the mind damage and the broken spirit. These believers, who have been deeply mentally disturbed by the people who mean to do it,....other believers... And because of these poisonous "christians", they can't open a bible and get any Help. Prayer life becomes a guilt trip. They cry and shake and feel sick all the time. Their lives become so disrupted by this screaming mental idea that they have committed the unparsdonable sin, or they have willfully sinned their salvation away. And all they had to do to be destroyed was show up on a "friendly" Christian Forum and read some fool's Thread regarding "losing your salvation" This particular Thread Topic is posted constantly on every Christian Forum that will allow it. And the next thing a sincere believer thinks after reading this spiritual poision is, "what if i did this".... and then the bottom falls out of their lives as the devil begins to work their minds into worry and fear to try to literally destroy them.

FYI. : The Epistle to the Hebrews, is a spiritual bear trap. Its a book that will tie a novice baby Christian in a knot for life. This epistle is so strong, so powerful, that when a novice gets into it, having no sound theology to lean on , no soul anchor of Grace from their Christian beginnnig, no deep understanding of Redemption,.. they will end up for the rest of their life preaching one message. "you can lose your salvation". That is what happens to everyone who get lost in the Epistle to the Hebrews, because they never became grounded in GRACE and "Justification by Faith" theology Truth BEFORE they jumped into this DEEP DEEP Epistle written to the "Hebrews".

Listen Saint, the bible is not a fun filled novel. Its a Spiritual Awakening Experience, written as words in Jesus's Blood.. Understand? And the unclean spirit , Satan, uses the bible to harm you, if he can. And do you think he can't.?
Listen... He was here before Adam. He was looking over Paul's shoulder when Paul was getting his letters out to the Churches. He sent Muslims their Bible. He lifted Jesus up by His power and took him to a high place and showed the Lord of Glory a few things... Satan is alive, just as certain as Jesus is Risen. And he is not playing with you. He wants your LIFE if he can't get your soul, and if he can't get ether because you are born again, then he'll send a heretic's lies into your mind, using a pulpit, a commentary, an online FORUM, a family member, a christian commentary..... that will try to make you believe that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as you trying by "abiding" and "enduring" and "commandment keeping" to try to keep yourself saved.

Now you think about that..... The heretic will continue to try to make you believe that the Blood Atonement is actually YOU keeping yourself saved, OR NOT. That the blood of Jesus is only as good as you are....

There are 2 Gospels that are preached, since the Cross was raised.. One is From the New Testament, and one is from the Devil. The bible preaches that God MADE you righteous and keeps you righteous, HIMSELF, if you will believe in Christ. Philippians 1:6
This is known as being born again. This is God becoming Jesus the Man and taking His very righteousness and giving it to you in place of your sin, and unrighteousness. This is Redemption. The Blood Atonement. "The Gift of Righteousness". "The Gift of Salvation".

The Devil's gospel teaches that your works make you and keep righteous, "enduring" "Abiding", "Obedience" and commandment keeping keeps you saved, and your obedience, you see... is your Cross that you hang on, to save yourself.

God's Gospel, is : "i will save you and keep you saved. ". using the Blood of Jesus.

The devil's gospel, is anything and everything else. And Saint, everything else including the person who is teaching works for salvation...... is Galatians 1:8

Are you trying to say that nothing you can do will prevent your salvation because Jesus blood atonement covers all sin?

 

[Joseph77]

Like... teaching that Jesus would come back over 20 years ago?

I did not have specifics to check out.
Just looked up false teachers - a lot is online about false teachings at that place...
thus, if anything is said from there,
do not accept it unless first testing it by Scripture.

 

[Behold]

Just like a Jehovah's Witness feels vindicated when someone slams the door in their face!

Are you a JW?
Im not.
But i'll tell you what you can try to do..
Why dont you post a Thread that defines why you believe that you should keeping sinning and repenting?
Or post one that explains that water baptism is how "sin is washed away".
Or post one that explains why you believe that God chooses some for Hell and Chooses some for Heaven?
Are you capable?
I dont think you are, but, give it a shot, candidus.

Listen, i understand that your theology is a legalism mess.
If it wasn't, you would not feel the obsession to be on my Threads, spitting on them.
Maybe one day, you'l have a revelation of the Blood Atonement, and Justification by Faith, and "the Gift of Righteousness".
If that every happens to you, you'll love my Threads.
But not until.
Understood...

 

[Behold]

Are you trying to say that nothing you can do will prevent your salvation because Jesus blood atonement covers all sin?

Hi brionne,

what im teaching is what Paul taught.
Basic "Pauline Theology", regarding the eternal security of the believer who is "in Christ".
Notice this verse.

"GOD.... who began salvation in the Born again....will HIMSELF be ... FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

So, Salvation is started by God on the Cross, and finished by God's faithfulness.

Many believers are deceived into thinking and believing that they are Saved by Jesus, but then they keep themselves saved by their works, commandment keeping, torah keeping, lifestyle, enduring, abiding"....= self self self self self self EFFORT.
They are trusting in SELF instead of Trusting in Christ = to KEEP THEM SAVED.

See, in general all unsaved people and all saved people agree that "JESUS SAVES"......
But the heretic will never believe that Jesus KEEPS YOU SAVED.

You read the verse i posted for you?

Its says that God saved you and that GOD HIMSELF will be FAITHFUL to complete your salvation".

This is why Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is not only the reason for your faith (author) He Himself also finishes your FAITH.

Salvation is all of God. ITs God saving, its Jesus Finishing and perfecting your faith..

THEY do it.. YOU RECEIVE IT by FAITH....>"the GIFT of salvation". = Born Again

 

[brionne]

Hi brionne,

what im teaching is what Paul taught.
Basic "Pauline Theology", regarding the eternal security of the believer who is "in Christ".
Notice this verse.

"GOD.... who began salvation in the Born again....will HIMSELF be ... FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

So, Salvation is started by God on the Cross, and finished by God's faithfulness.

Many believers are deceived into thinking and believing that they are Saved by Jesus, but then they keep themselves saved by their works, commandment keeping, torah keeping, lifestyle, enduring, abiding"....= self self self self self self EFFORT.
They are trusting in SELF instead of Trusting in Christ = to KEEP THEM SAVED.

See, in general all unsaved people and all saved people agree that "JESUS SAVES"......
But the heretic will never believe that Jesus KEEPS YOU SAVED.

You read the verse i posted for you?

Its says that God saved you and that GOD HIMSELF will be FAITHFUL to complete your salvation".

This is why Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is not only the reason for your faith (author) He Himself also finishes your FAITH.

Salvation is all of God. ITs God saving, its Jesus Finishing and perfecting your faith..

THEY do it.. YOU RECEIVE IT by FAITH....>"the GIFT of salvation". = Born Again

I agree with you that if a believer is 'in christ' then he will be saved without a doubt. But the obligation is to 'remain in christ' is it not?

If a person doesnt 'remain' in Christ, is he still saved?

 

[Behold]

I agree with you that if a believer is 'in christ' then he will be saved without a doubt. But the obligation is to 'remain in christ' is it not?
If a person doesnt 'remain' in Christ, is he still saved?

Thank you for your question.
I wrote you a Thread to answer it.

Find it here :

The true "ABIDING" in Christ, vs the heretic.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi brionne,

what im teaching is what Paul taught.
Basic "Pauline Theology", regarding the eternal security of the believer who is "in Christ".
Notice this verse.

"GOD.... who began salvation in the Born again....will HIMSELF be ... FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

So, Salvation is started by God on the Cross, and finished by God's faithfulness.

Many believers are deceived into thinking and believing that they are Saved by Jesus, but then they keep themselves saved by their works, commandment keeping, torah keeping, lifestyle, enduring, abiding"....= self self self self self self EFFORT.
They are trusting in SELF instead of Trusting in Christ = to KEEP THEM SAVED.

See, in general all unsaved people and all saved people agree that "JESUS SAVES"......
But the heretic will never believe that Jesus KEEPS YOU SAVED.

You read the verse i posted for you?

Its says that God saved you and that GOD HIMSELF will be FAITHFUL to complete your salvation".

This is why Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is not only the reason for your faith (author) He Himself also finishes your FAITH.

Salvation is all of God. ITs God saving, its Jesus Finishing and perfecting your faith..

THEY do it.. YOU RECEIVE IT by FAITH....>"the GIFT of salvation". = Born Again

For the record: not believing in OSAS doesn't mean that a person believes that they are saved by works.

 

[FollowHim]

many very weak people who proclaim themselves to be Christians, are self deceived.
You can tell this about them, because they are always more interested in "sweet presentation"< then they are in Gospel Truth. or Growing up into Christ.

So, let me give you some Sweet Presentation from Jesus, so that you can "feel the love",.....followhim.
Ok?
Jesus once went into the Temple in Jerusalem, and using a whip HE made, = "drove" out a room full of sinners, including knocking over tables.
Amazing that Christ , the Loving Jesus, was not a bit interested in if this hurt "their poor little feelings", followhim.
So, Is that sweet enough for you, sweetie?
And Let me give you some sugar from Paul also, so that you can feel all warm and fuzzy.
Paul said, that if i am dealing with a heretic, i am to give you 2-3 chances to come to the truth, and stop kicking against it.
This is in a CHURCH or in a meeting or if im teaching you 1-1.. So, if you wont hear me, i am to kick you out of my Church.
Paul's team for this is "REJECT". Youl'll find this in TITUS... An epistle you've never read.
Do you know this word "reject", followhim?
It means im to get rid of you. To keep you away from my members. Im not to "love you and accept you, and wash you with "Love your neighbor as yourself".
Got that?
Im To put you in the STREET with my Ushers help if you need it, and lock you OUT.

It appears in a short synopsis, you believe those who sin and repent, sin and repent do not know Jesus.
Now this may be true, ie the Holy Spirit has not come upon them which is why they are caught in this cycle.
The problem is whatever you are saying does not seem to be the solution either. You are talking to me as if I am caught in this cycle, which I am not. I do notice though you have an agenda, and I am now the enemy. But why? Because I have faith in Jesus and follow Him? Because I preach His word and follow His will? Where is my failure? Maybe not saying you are speaking the truth?

I am not trying to preserve peoples poor little feelings. I am though addressing trauma, loneliness, poverty of heart, emptiness of walk, an echo within. I know Jesus, I know He loves me and saved me, and has transformed me. You however cannot see people for the poverty they live in or the wonder Christ gives us.

And I agree with kicking heretics out of the church, and I will start with those who just cause division with no content, but their self importance. They are easy to spot, they think if people will listen to them, everything will be different. The real news is, if people are not listening to Jesus they are not going to listen to you. Our job is to get people to listen to Jesus and believe Him. And believe Him at a fundamental level, where we really live, where our secrets are known to us, where hurt and bitterness reside, where we will prove them wrong, who mocked us. And in this place the cross comes and says, it is enough. It is enough, to know Jesus, our Lord and saviour, to dwell in the courts of the Most High, to know His hand in our lives and just to serve Him for His glory. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

You are a deceiver who teaches the lie that "you can lose your salvation".
So, it would be impossible for you to agree with me or Paul.
Think about that.

First of all, Its Paul who teaches that if you "walk in the Spirit, you will not sin".
So, your issue is with Paul.
Tell him that his teaching defies the New Testament.

And what does confession do?
Nothing.
God has already saved you, and all your sin is redeemed.
So, if you tell God you are sorry that you sinned, and your sin is already forgiven, you are not cleansing your own sin, as you seem to think you do.
Did you bleed for your sin lately ?
Do you think Jesus gets back up on that Cross and drips blood every time you confess and repent again?
You need to THINK. You are not THINKING.

Repenting does not cleanse your sin, as your sin is 2000 yrs ago resolved on The Cross.
Why confess and repent of, what is already forgiven? Why do people do this??
Its to deal with your GUILT and CONDEMNATION.
It makes YOU FEEL BETTER...But God isn't impressed.
He's impressed when you understand the BLood Atonement and see yourself only as He sees you.
Jesus has already dealt with whatever sin it is you did again, 2000 yrs ago.

I like the irony here. You are right it is heretical to say the elect can lose their salvation, because they are the elect.
Yet who are the elect? One believer claimed like you if someone writes they can lose their salvation they are not a believer. But then you ask who is a believer? They answer someone who believes in Jesus. So we get a contradiction, someone comes to faith, and over time learns some who equally came to faith fell away. So either they were never saved or you can lose salvation. The dilemma is we do not know the answer to this until we meet Jesus. Jesus said of the apostles he lost only one, the one predicted to fall.

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12

Jesus kept all safe except Judas.
What is more honest than to say we are safe in Christ, but some do like a seed planted in shallow soil, to bloom and then fade away. The real fear is unbelief in Jesus and the temptation to prove our salvation in works, rather than rejoicing in His gift to our lives.

So those who shout so loud I am saved to eternity no matter what I do, shout so loud they have no clue who or what God is, and by claiming He is not concerned about sin or our walk, they declare their blindness to the Kingdom of God.

In my simple way, I just wish to bless those around, and encourage them to walk deeper in Christ to make their calling sure. I have walked in the faith for 40+ years, and by Gods grace, still a few more. But probably not so many, but I am happy to go home, to be with Him. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

what you believe is what you teach.
you teach that if you do not abide in Christ, you will lose your salvation.
That teaching is heresy.

If heaven is abiding with Christ face to face, if one grows to hate and loath Jesus here no earth, why will this not become an eternal reality when you meet Him?

Some are so foolish not to see, Jesus is not that different from a marriage partner who one loaths, their very words make one ill. If one woke up any morning from a long sleep, the reality would remain the same.

The faith these folk hold on to, is God will change their loathing into love, their rebellion into conformity, their hatred into praise. But scripture declares you receive what you sow, sow to this world and sin, reap death, sow to the Spirit, reap eternal life. There is an eternal mirror, which will save anyones life. It shows them who they are, and who Christ is. If one breaks, bows and humbles oneself, then there is life everlasting, but if one rebels and says it is their right to be as they are, then the death they have is the death they will receive. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

Tell me, how can one believe the false prophet, and false doctrine of Chuck Smith?

You would have to identify the false doctrine to me.

(see "paraphrase" (or as needed, other references for meaning you do not yourself get by revelation from the Father) )
As in "flesh and blood has not " = what to you ?
"REVEALED/taught In Spirit" = what to you ?
"Unless the Father Grants it from Heaven" = what to you ?
"Not by power, nor by might, but by MY Spirit Sayeth the Lord"
"God's thoughts are not man's thoughts"

Oh, there's a lot of 'tradition', opposed to Jesus, opposed to Truth and Spirit, that tries to explain away everything from God....
so those who accept that tradition, and have no understanding of God's Meaning or of God's Power, don't grasp this.

That's one reason so many false churches survive to this day, through so many centuries - there's few "Bereans" testing messages, doctrines, dogmas, practices, and teachers to see if they are in and with and from God or not, or if they are outside of Christ, opposed to Truth and Life.

Is it not the Berean who tests everything by the word of God? he does not test doctrine by subjective experience.

I always accept all Scripture that says what it says. I reject the use of Scripture where one tosses it out on the table like a used snot rag, and says nothing of what they are trying to prove.

You know what I was trying to prove.

And, good for you; you got a like from the mormon.

First of all, stop trying to sound like me.
You can't do it, so, try to be yourself in "sound".

If I in any way sounded like you, I can assure you that it was by accident.

Next.
Paul said, "if you walk in the Spirit, you will not sin".
John said, "If WE say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves".
Only to the self saving Heretic are these verses perceived as "contradicting".

I don't see them as contradicting.

I believe that we all have indwelling sin; but that sin can be put to death (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8, Romans 8:13) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

Thus 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 1:8 do not contradict.

So, to you, they are

Nope.

and if you had listened to me 3 weeks ago or 4, when i first started trying to help you, you would be believing right at this point.
But instead, you wanted to appear on the Forum as "advanced, and smart, and theologically mature", so, you ended up with nothing.
Same as you were.
You post colorful verses and you like remind us that you are a "teacher".
Sad.

I do not oppose you because I want to "look smart". I don't need my name in lights; and I don't need men's applause; I'm famous in my Father's eyes.

abiding

As if that were a bad thing.

See John 15:1-8, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and 1 John 2:27-28.

 

[Joseph77]

You would have to identify the false doctrine to me.

Do you want to just refute it if it is posted ? It has been published frequently on the internet for all to see who look .... it has been instead listened to and accepted by those who are deceived also.... and they claim it is not false teaching..... but they are wrong, according to Scripture and the Spirit of God... just as you posted,

Is it not the Berean who tests everything by the word of God? he does not test doctrine by subjective experience.

apparently not realizing that all that I posted was from Scripture, not subjective at all.
Proven lessons, in line with all Scripture, not contradicting God's Plan or Purpose or Word in any way. Verified by others. Repeatedly over the centuries. Not subject to emotions, feelings, or other variable things.

"Provable" by Scripture, as written, as the Bereans did, but
realize
that the same One True Gospel, the fragrant aroma of the Gospel of Salvation,
the very same Message, the identical Message, the same Word,
is a stench to those destined for destruction, as the Bible says clearly ....

By sheer numbers, millions or billions with "Biblical reasoning" (claimed, not truthful) ,
outnumber the true believers and true teachers overwhelmingly on earth.
As written, we are "as sheep led to slaughter" , daily. (many of us/ our brethren persecuted, tortured, dying this hour, each day, every day) ....

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you want to just refute it if it is posted ?

Only if it is scripturally refutable.

 

[Joseph77]

Only if it is scripturally refutable.

The false teachings exposed on the internet are refuted by Scripture, but still being taught ! (and believed/ followed by huge numbers)

Of course, true teachings also are exposed as if refuted on the internet... from a whole different crowd with a whole different purpose , of course. (edit in: like the way rome always 'Scripturally refutes' the truth, all the time, every day, no matter where it is found .... being permitted to do so by God, in God's Perfect Plan ... )

Learning even when being in a false gospel group took time years ago, some have even posted recently it took decades ... and they praise God that He took the time with perfect patience to deliver them in a perfect way - His Way of course, in a way that let them choose what is right, by His revelation, word, direction, grace, in Jesus , all in all.... not ever violating their free will nor in any way coercing them , but letting them go on and on sometimes, God knowing perfectly well without error exactly what was needed
to righteously allow them to learn the truth freely, even though it was often painful for years/ decades/ for them and their loved ones, family and friends ... i.e. God Knows Perfectly - and Does as He Pleases Totally, not at all the way men think or feel things should be done (God is always right, men are wrong even when they think they are right and even if they have thousands agreeing with them and supporting them, until God Redeems them and cleans them up spirit, heart and mind as He Planned).
That is trying to hard perhaps to describe ....
so just always realize God's Word is Truth, unchangeable, Perfect in every way... and God Delights to Reveal His Word to little children as Jesus says.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... you are a heretic. ...

Find a mirror.

Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

I like the irony here. You are right it is heretical to say the elect can lose their salvation, because they are the elect.
Yet who are the elect? One believer claimed like you if someone writes they can lose their salvation they are not a believer. But then you ask who is a believer? They answer someone who believes in Jesus. So we get a contradiction, someone comes to faith, and over time learns some who equally came to faith fell away. So either they were never saved or you can lose salvation. The dilemma is we do not know the answer to this until we meet Jesus. Jesus said of the apostles he lost only one, the one predicted to fall.

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12

Jesus kept all safe except Judas.
What is more honest than to say we are safe in Christ, but some do like a seed planted in shallow soil, to bloom and then fade away. The real fear is unbelief in Jesus and the temptation to prove our salvation in works, rather than rejoicing in His gift to our lives.

So those who shout so loud I am saved to eternity no matter what I do, shout so loud they have no clue who or what God is, and by claiming He is not concerned about sin or our walk, they declare their blindness to the Kingdom of God.

In my simple way, I just wish to bless those around, and encourage them to walk deeper in Christ to make their calling sure. I have walked in the faith for 40+ years, and by Gods grace, still a few more. But probably not so many, but I am happy to go home, to be with Him. God bless you

Hi Follow Him,
I enjoy reading your posts, they are very gentlemanly and it's refreshing to see someone who does not return rudeness for rudeness.

"So those who shout so loud I am saved to eternity no matter what I do, shout so loud they have no clue who or what God is, and by claiming He is not concerned about sin or our walk, they declare their blindness to the Kingdom of God."

The first part of the above goes without saying, lol. The underlined (mine) is something that throws me as, should we not feel sorrow and regret for our sin? Do we not care that sin hurts God? How could He not be concerned about the only thing He cannot abide-sin. I think we should feel horrible when we sin, and hopefully that feeling will help us to avoid it more and more...

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, sin doesn't hurt God (Job 35:5-8).

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible is the plumb line by which we determine all other things.

His Spirit and Christ are the plumb line, dont you believe His Spirit??

 

[Behold]

For the record: not believing in OSAS doesn't mean that a person believes that they are saved by works.

"OSAS" isn't a doctrine, and its not a philosophy.
Its not something to "believe in".
So, whatever it is you are thinking about it, based on what you've said, isn't the correct understanding of 'OSAS".

So, what is OSAS?
Its Jesus.
Jesus is OSAS.
Eternal Life is OSAS.
Why is this?

Well, look at the Letters......OSAS.

Now break it down into its meaning....... Once you are saved ONCE, you are kept saved by what saved you.
Once you are saved, ONCE, you are always saved by the same that saved you.

Once Jesus saved you with His blood, ONCE, you are always saved by the Same Jesus who saved you.

Once you are saved by the blood of Jesus, ONCE, you are kept saved by the same blood of Jesus.

How many times are you saved. = ONCE.

Te be saved once and kept saved by the Blood of Jesus (OSAS) is to be born again having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".