Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...

[Grailhunter]

I quoted you Not scripture, you quoted scripture So that's the judgment you used, and how was I offended? I don't Marry homosexuals? your all over the place, So I take it your one that wants To charge Christians with Sin then? Be the Accuser of them, try devour them If you catch them out, ya know what that makes ya, if you said Stop your sinful lifestyles and live your life in the footsteps of Christ I would say good for you , But you don't stop there do ya, You go send them to hell mode, That's your heart speaking

Try reading the scriptures. Argue with them. The scriptures are Christ's heart I can only try to model mine like His.

 

[justbyfaith]

what about a guy that ADDS to the Gospel Of Grace ( That is the definition of the man that “ falls from Grace” ) Yet has the Faith to Believe and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord and that He rose from the dead? The Bible says that man is Saved....
The Book Of Galatians clearly states that those who TEACH False,Perverted ”Gospels” are “ Accursed” ( Damned),

What about the person who, actually preaches / teaches what you deem to be a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel; but has the faith to believe in and confess Jesus as Lord and that He rose from the dead?

Is there a contradiction now in holy scripture?

I believe that God rose from Jesus from the dead and I confess that He is the Lord of my life and the Lord of all; yet you believe that I preach a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel.

So, I am saved according to Romans 10:9-10; but condemned according to Galatians 1:8?

Maybe you ought to consider that I am not preaching a false and perverted gospel after all.

Because otherwise you have a huge contradiction in holy scripture.

If Your “ Gospel” does not give God 100% of the Credit for your Salvation and Yourself 0% , you had better “ get back to the drawing board” and FAST! You got “ something” very wrong......Never forget what “ pride” did to Satan......just sayin’...

This is an argument that denies man's responsibility to repent of his sins and implies that a man will go to heaven as a worker / doer of iniquity, which is an unbiblical concept.

Of course God gets 100% of the credit for my salvation...and yet, there is also a practical righteousness that the Lord has imparted to me.

It was a suggestion. As soon as you say in a forum you have this or that gift your adversary will immediately mock you and tell you you do not have that gift. But if that's okay with you, go for it. I have found that it is better to let people recognize the gift you have on their own. You may already know what it is, but telling them doesn't make it so they now know. They won't acknowledge your gift until they see it for themselves, and they won't disagree with themselves, so I'm suggesting you just let them see it for themselves and spare yourself their abuse.

If we tell people that we have a gift; which was given to us with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery; then that is a tactic of spiritual warfare according to what I see in holy scripture. Of course people who are against us may try to cast disparity on that gift; but, as you said, if the gift truly manifests itself in your life, people will be able to see that. And therefore those who are inclined to insult you will have reason for shame when that gift actually manifests itself and they are found to be false witnesses for having disparaged your gift.

A little bit of people insulting me by saying that my gift is not genuine is not going to kill me; especially since I have the gift in question and therefore those who try to contend that the gift is not in me will be found to be liars by the majority.

Therefore it is a valid tactic for spiritual warfare to declare to people what is your gift that was prophesied over you with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your post gave me a lot to think about I might answer in parts, there is so much we could talk about so many angles we could go, But The less I say might be better

First off of course I accept your apology, But I don't hold anything against you so its fine don't worry about it we are all good, I appreciate your words tho thanks, I will Apologize to you as well I have said things that are less than ideal, Things that have probably hurt that didn't need to be said and shouldn't have been said I will try work on that in the future, Even with all our disagreements I do like you, I care about you and want the best for you, The thing with our theology Is we are all learning we see through a glass darkly and only God Has the ultimate truth, So whatever mistakes we make or think we make its against God, That's where The precious Blood Of Jesus Comes in, My battle isn't against flesh and blood its against principalities and powers and those powers are the ones that try and condemn with the mistakes that we do make, I don't think your mistake is that bigger deal at least against me its not but not been honest with ourselves has repercussions so make sure you do that for your own well being, but I see against your theology you could see that it is a really big deal, Take both our theologies out and take principalities out That try make you feel guilty and look what Scripture says, God is incredibly patient with us. He doesn't respond to us in the way we deserve but demonstrates His love for us through His graciousness. any forgiveness that we need is found in Jesus, Take it to him and if your conscience is clear move on get back on track, Embrace his promises, Cling to Jesus and lets try and preach Him

Had a feeling you might like these verses

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

I accept your apology also, my brother.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You mean a chance to be lucky enough to repent before they die?

I'm making a point here, BB. If you want to be true to your own doctrine then you have to start treating those you think are legalists as your born again, but fallen, brothers and sisters and stop abusing them.

Lol.....check back to all the hateful posts directed Toward
me.....I have been accused of being everything but Satan Himself!

That “ abuse” thing is a Two-Way street, my friend.....

I have said it before and I sincerely mean it ....I am like FDR, who famously said “ I WELCOME the Hatred of my enemies!” I really do. I just cant over- emphasize how it does not bother me at all....

I don’t hate JBF .....I am actually kind of fond Of him.....he seems like such an “ innocent “ sometimes.....the Truth is, I actually feel sorry for him and pray for him.....I know EXACTLY where he is coming from because I used to be a victim of poor teaching, just as he is......Its his “ Doctrine” That I Hate.....I am making an effort to not let my hatred for his Doctrine overlap into my feelings for the man himself....
It must be noted however , when it came to defending the Gospel Of Grace , Paul gave no ground...”not for a minute” .....God willing ,neither will I.

I was very touched by his post to “His Life” and started to post something that was going to be unbelievably kind , that being my nature, believe it or not—- you people only see me in an “ Attack Mode” which I think is defensible because if people here are guilty of spreading “ !eaven” , which I believe to be the case.....it was “Leaven” that destroyed many of Paul’ s Churches that he founded (“ all those in Asia Minor have deserted me”, he lamented ) ...I May yet write that nice post to JBF, But I have not yet read any follow- up posts to see if he has not reverted to his old Tone....
With God’s help, I’m not going to sit back and see what happened to Paul’s churches happen here, and I will try to keep the “ collateral damage” to a minimum....

 

[Grailhunter]

Lol.....check back to all the hateful posts directed Toward
me.....I have been accused of being everything but Satan Himself!

That “ abuse” thing is a Two-Way street, my friend.....

I have said it before and I sincerely mean it ....I am like FDR, who famously said “ I WELCOME the Hatred of my enemies!” I really do. I just cant over- emphasize how it does not bother me at all....

I don’t hate JBF .....I am actually kind of fond Of him.....he seems like such an “ innocent “ sometimes.....the Truth is, I actually feel sorry for him and pray for him.....I know EXACTLY where he is coming from because I used to be a victim of poor teaching, just as he is......Its his “ Doctrine” That I Hate.....I am making an effort to not let my hatred for his Doctrine overlap into my feelings for the man himself....
It must be noted however , when it came to defending the Gospel Of Grace , Paul gave no ground...”not for a minute” .....God willing ,neither will I.

I was very touched by his post to “His Life” and started to post something that was going to be unbelievably kind , that being my nature, believe it or not—- you people only see me in an “ Attack Mode” which I think is defensible because if people here are guilty of spreading “ !eaven” , which I believe to be the case.....it was “Leaven” that destroyed many of Paul’ s Churches that he founded (“ all those in Asia Minor have deserted me”, he lamented ) ...I May yet write that nice post to JBF, But I have not yet read any follow- up posts to see if he has not reverted to his old Tone....
With God’s help, I’m not going to sit back and see what happened to Paul’s churches happen here, and I will try to keep the “ collateral damage” to a minimum....

Lol.....check back to all the hateful posts directed Toward me.....I have been accused of being everything but Satan Himself!
I WELCOME the Hatred of my enemies!”
Its his “ Doctrine” That I Hate.
it was “Leaven” that destroyed many of Paul’ s Churches that he founded

Oh the poor me stuff again. Not that you read the scriptures I gave you...but if you did you would know that most of them were from either Christ or Paul...Do you think Paul was writing scriptures to destroy his church.

Why do you consider biblical scriptures a doctrine of hate? Why is it that these people from this new denomination find the Bible so offensive. And yes I am lumping you into this new denomination because you fit like glove. Even their tactics...the whole poor me, so much hate, I am offend and hurt...The Word of God generates so much hate because it convict and condemns sin? All this malarkey is not going to work.

Let's get down to brass tacks. Who do you think is your enemy? Who do you think hates you?
JBF and I make our points and then post the scriptures that clearly support us. What offends you the most, JBF and I or the scriptures? Do we need to go through each scripture with you and explain the meaning and prove that they come from the Bible?
And leaven, LOL do you think leaven are the people that preach the morality of the Bible? Oh my gosh!
You are back to the same old rhetoric from this new denomination...Someone speaks of morality and condemns sin, with the scriptures to back them up and they proclaim it hatful...hurtful...unfair...and denying Grace.

Everything you post, words, your attitude, your emotions are all in line with this new denomination that bases it doctrines on social values and beliefs, over and above the Bible. If you can find scriptures that seem to condone or justify those social values, you quote them. Grace is not intended to turn the world over to evildoers nor is it to pack heaven with evildoers.

How should Christians live? Should they try to be as good as possible? And is that the issue with you...do you know what good is?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The short of it is, you have been mistakenly labeling fruit bearing Christians as legalists.



Not really....If one has God’s Holy Spirit in them , the Fruits “ should” flow naturally ....many people have fruits that are very difficult to see.....that INTERNAL stuff like “ patience, Joy, self control, etc” while many times the “ self-Righteous” Fruit inspector is preoccupied with whether or not the poor , struggling Newbie is snuffing out His cigarette....

Taking what “ should “ happen and turning it into something that “ must “ happen.....THAT is what is at the heart of Legalism.....allow me to show an example....

Before I became a Christian, the absolute, stupidest thing a person could do was to give money to a Ministry—— especially a Television or Internet ministry! Since becoming a Christian, my New Heart has CHANGED ME .....The Holy Spirit Turned me into a Giver.....Now I can’t “ keep” from giving to ministries , or to the poor or to anybody else that is in need.....I consider That New Giving Spirit a very obvious “ Fruit Of The Spirit”......it is a great thing that nobody would argue against!
Now here is where the problem of Legalism could Rear it’s ugly head.... If I take this Positive change beyond the point of considering it a Gift From God and a True Fruit Of The Spirit as a natural outgrowth of what is now Inside me ......If I say that because “ I” have it, you MUST have it too in order to be Saved like I am —— THAT is where one crosses the line....THAT is where one becomes a Legalist.....
Two things Save us—- Christ’s Blood and Our Faith.....If you go beyond THAT with what you think MUST be done......you are getting into Legalism.....Good deeds and good gifts and Fruits of The Spirit SHOULD occur in the Life Of the Believer .....we should go to church, we should give to the poor, we should be baptized, we should take Holy Communion , we should have-self- control and patience and we should try to be obedient , try to repent of sins when we stumble .....But to take a “ should”and turn it into a MUST —— THAT is Legalism....

The ONLY thing that we MUST do is to Believe the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4.......Believe it to the point of RESTING in it......Then God will put His Spirit in you and HE will determine the types of Fruit you might show and how long it takes for them to be evident.....They May NEVER be evident to the Fruit Inspectors out there.....God controls it all and it is up to Him what shows and what does not show.....


.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't think you really understand what's going on with the 'outside of the cup' person. They're all about the leaves of the tree—church attendance, nice 'church' clothing, evangelistic outreaches, church programs, tithing, Church clean up days, Bible studies, potluck dinners, etc. What they lack is the fruit of the tree—patience, love, joy, peace, kindness, and patience. The fruit is what comes from within and is what can be seen on the outside in due season. Fruit inspectors see the leaves of the tree of the legalist, and how their tree resembles that of the Christian, but they see no fruit of the Spirit coming from within. That is the true understanding of the outside of the cup vs. the inside of the cup teaching of Jesus.

The short of it is, you have been mistakenly labeling fruit bearing Christians as legalists. The legalist doesn't have any fruit. He only has showy leaves. Showy leaves that fool most people, including themselves, but which don't fool Christians who know better. Save your condemnation for those who don't produce the fruit of the Spirit and only have the leafy look of religious activities. Which, by the way, includes many, many 'grace' Christians who aren't legalistic about the externals I listed above, but who don't bear the fruit of the Spirit, either.

I’m glad you took the time to list all of those “ Fruits of the Spirit” ..... I thank my God and my Savior......I have them all.....and “ Bear” them .....you should meet me some time and see me display them.....I just wonder If “ Righteous Anger” is a type of “Fruit” —- because I got that also....” Spreaders Of Leaven” seem to bring it out of me”..... and for “ That” I don’t apologize......It makes me “God-Like” because I GUARANTEE that God Hates Leaven too.....
Apologies for being “ The Skunk at the Garden Party”......I enjoy a “ love- fest” as much as the next guy, but just sitting here thinking of some of these Doctrines Of Satan That trifle with and trample upon The Blood Of Christ and what “ HE ALONE” accomplished at the Cross makes my blood boil.....so hang me from the highest tree....I will defend “Nothing But The Blood” until my last breath and rejoice at the fact that I don’t find myself on the Wrong Side Of “ That” argument.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, Aspy's in particular can be extremely intelligent. And I can see that you are very intelligent. As far as I know you never told anyone that, and we don't need anyone to tell us that. We can see it for ourselves. But if you told me you are very intelligent and we were having some kind of a scuffle I'd be tempted to mock your estimation of yourself and say you are not. See how that works?

But anyway, for the Aspy, along with higher intelligence, narcissistic traits are often present, and the tendency to be rigid and compulsively detailed. This can spill over into the study of theology. Which is very counter productive. Over thinking ruins everything, it seems. But again, these things can be addressed through honest recognition and the purposeful decision to restrain them in the name of seeking to not hurt other people with those traits.

I agree in your estimation of jbf.....he is an intelligent man, knows his Bible much better that the average Joe and I bet he is a good guy to be around...

I just think he is wrong in his doctrine .....like me and 99.9% Of the other people used to be in my childhood church.....I wish him the best and I pray for him and he is SO CLOSE on so many things, I actually think he will understand Grace someday and stop being obsessed with his false views about Repentance....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

BB , would you like to reread what you just said . How do you RESTORE a what ...........a salvation that never was .
YOU are correct on this one my friend . ITS why paul when writing the second letter
to the corinthains told them how that by seperating that man out , IT LED to godly repentance unto SALVATION .
BEEN SAYING THIS ALL ALONG I HAVE MY FRIEND . IF WE SEE ONE IN ERROR , RESTORE SUCH A ONE
or as james said , IF any of YOU BELIEVERS does err from THE TRUTH and one CONVERTS the sinner back from the error of his ways
YE HAVE SAVED A SOUL FROM DEATH . BEEN saying this all along . THANKS FOR AGREEING . I knew it would eventually come out .[/QUOTE



I am here to please and serve....You are welcome....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You're describing falling away from a relationship based on a head knowledge about the facts of Jesus and the resurrection, not falling away from a relationship based on the joy of having received the forgiveness of your sins.

I am actually describing a child that had the “Faith Of a Child” That Jesus liked and desired for all of the people to have....nothing fancy....I just Believed Jesus was who He said He was .....no questioning of it at all....
It was enough to make me Saved.....I later Lost my Faith yet God restored me to it....and even though I was unfaithful , God remained Faithful and I was Saved all along even at my worst , when I never gave a single whit about it......Grace sure isn't Fair is it?

 

[kcnalp]

I am actually describing a child that had the “Faith Of a Child” That Jesus liked and desired for all of the people to have....nothing fancy....I just Believed Jesus was who He said He was .....no questioning of it at all....
It was enough to make me Saved.....I later Lost my Faith yet God restored me to it....and even though I was unfaithful , God remained Faithful and I was Saved all along even at my worst , when I never gave a single whit about it......Grace sure isn't Fair is it?

What if you died when you didn't believe? OSAS flies out the window again!
Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be damned!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What if you died when you didn't believe? OSAS flies out the window again!
Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be damned!

Salvation is a gift ....” God's Gifts are without recall”

If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes....

 

[kcnalp]

Salvation is a gift ....” God's Gifts are without recall”

If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes....

Unbelievers go to Heaven? OSAS is a very strange unBiblical doctrine and quite flexible to suit OSASers.

 

[justbyfaith]

Lol.....check back to all the hateful posts directed Toward
me.....I have been accused of being everything but Satan Himself!

That “ abuse” thing is a Two-Way street, my friend.....

I have said it before and I sincerely mean it ....I am like FDR, who famously said “ I WELCOME the Hatred of my enemies!” I really do. I just cant over- emphasize how it does not bother me at all...

Just so you know, I have not leveled against you anything that you didn't level against me first. Not saying that what I did was right; just that I did not do it in hatred but only in self-defense (for they say that a good defense is a good offense)

I agree in your estimation of jbf.....he is an intelligent man, knows his Bible much better that the average Joe and I bet he is a good guy to be around...

I just think he is wrong in his doctrine .....like me and 99.9% Of the other people used to be in my childhood church.....I wish him the best and I pray for him and he is SO CLOSE on so many things, I actually think he will understand Grace someday and stop being obsessed with his false views about Repentance....

I just keep trying to show you that you have been persecuting me for that I proclaim the whole counsel of the Lord...I am so close on so many things because I do say the things that you say that a Tare does not say...but the things that I say that offend you and that you count as "leaven" is me preaching the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)). Those are the things that you don't say.

The sooner you realize that the better. As soon as it happens our war will be finished.

I will even give you the luxury of apologizing to me privately, in a PM.

But I think that the Lord desires that there be reconciliation between us just as there is between me and @HisLife.

If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes....

Consider that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2).

So, if we lose or throw away faith, we lose access to grace.

Now we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, if we lose access to grace, we are no longer saved.

Now I will say that those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) have an everlasting faith (and therefore everlasting life, John 6:47); because they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

While those who have a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can fall away in time of temptation (Luke 8:13) or be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

In the latter passage, it should be clear that those who are cut off because they didn't continue in His goodness, it was said of them that they "stand by faith" (v.20).

 

[Grailhunter]

Just a short note to let you know that as I said.....I don’t read, much less respond to your posts....you showed your True Colors at the very outset.....you are dishonest and you purposely deceive people for kicks.....
You are not fit to debate with.....Sorry....you could have learned so much...

Do as you wish in the future but I would advise you not to waste valuable Computer ink....

LOL I am fine that you do not read my posts.
At anytime look and see how many guests are on this site.
What I write is mostly a warning to them.
Let's say one of those guests is a drug addicted prostitute, she is looking for a relationship with God and salvation and heaven.
If she believes you, she can be saved and not skip a beat and die in the arms of one her "Johns" from a drug overdose and expect to go to heaven. Will she think that heaven is on fire? And God is really ugly! Will the cannibals be wishing they brought barbeque sauce when they see her?

If she believes me, she knows that if she wants to go to heaven, she has to stop being a prostitute and seek drug therapy. She can be saved, but repentance requires her to stop prostituting herself and stop abusing drugs. So from there it is up her. Not that it will happen overnight, but that is her goal. If she is successful, she has a chance for a real life that includes health and happiness and when it is over heaven.

If you read the scriptures, none of this is a mystery. Salvation and Grace are for those that are good, try to be good, fail, and try to be good again...but Salvation and Grace is not a prophylactic for a sinful lifestyle.

Changing one's life can be very hard to do...but you give them an out. Why change? Why do something that hard, you say their sins are perpetually forgiven...your way is much easier...pat'em on the back and send them to hell. Satan's way is always easier. They don't even have to go to church...don't have to feel uncomfortable and you separate them further by saying those people that would tell them they are doing wrong are hateful, judgmental, condemning, and unfair. So they continue to gather with the evildoers and live in sin until they are dead. Surely shocked that you lied to them when the flames hit them.

Sure it makes you a hit with social groups. BB is great, he thinks everyone is great! He such a wonderful guy full of love and understanding, and acceptance. The homosexuals, and other sexual deviants, prostitutes, and drug abusers think BB is so cool. Finely someone that understand! BB set us free! We can do anything we want and still go to heaven. Let's have a party in BB's honor. Now a party with these evildoers might turn out to be wild! And BB declares that, Isn't wonderful to be loved by the Lord! Of course he does not participate, he just lead them to hell.

When it is all said and done, who is the more loving, me or you? I gave them a chance!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am actually describing a child that had the “Faith Of a Child” That Jesus liked and desired for all of the people to have....nothing fancy....I just Believed Jesus was who He said He was .....no questioning of it at all....
It was enough to make me Saved.....I later Lost my Faith yet God restored me to it....and even though I was unfaithful , God remained Faithful and I was Saved all along even at my worst , when I never gave a single whit about it......Grace sure isn't Fair is it?

You're just not getting it. I still don't see a shred of talk about being floored by having your sins forgiven and then you throwing that back in God's face. You're just talking about agreeing with the facts about the gospel being awesome. That is what I see you gave up. I don't see in your story that you consciously threw away a profound, felt experience and reality of having your sins washed away. You threw away the knowledge of God. I don't think you were born again during that time. That's why God never gave up on you. There was still a chance for you to be saved. But now that has happened, you can't get away with casting God away that way, not for long anyway.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not really....If one has God’s Holy Spirit in them , the Fruits “ should” flow naturally ..

I wish this new teaching in the church was true. The truth is we are very able to suppress the Spirit.....

Do not extinguish the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19 ​

 

[Addy]

This isn't really me... as I am on a NO POSTING time out... BUT.... BUT.... the invisible non-posting lamb is LOVING what has occurred on this thread.... MERCY has been SHOWN.... COMPASSION has been executed and UNDERSTANDING has abounded. This is how we are to treat one another. God BLESS us all.... we sure are in NEED of it.

Still working out what my role might be... if I am to remain here... I am not able to tolerate those who simply like to ARGUE and cause strife... but I am thinking of applying for snack server... or elderly cheer leader squad.

 

[Pearl]

This isn't really me... as I am on a NO POSTING time out... BUT.... BUT.... the invisible non-posting lamb is LOVING what has occurred on this thread.... MERCY has been SHOWN.... COMPASSION has been executed and UNDERSTANDING has abounded. This is how we are to treat one another. God BLESS us all.... we sure are in NEED of it.

Still working out what my role might be... if I am to remain here... I am not able to tolerate those who simply like to ARGUE and cause strife... but I am thinking of applying for snack server... or elderly cheer leader squad.

Be an encourager @Addy or be inspirational.

 

[Addy]

Be an encourager @Addy or be inspirational.

I really am truly having a most difficult dilemma with the... do I stay... or do I go... I think the fact that the only alternative for me is...
If I go... I am BACK to being all alone... which is fine... but for some reason.... my heart seems to be nagging at me that I am missing something...
I have gotten caught up in the ARGUING threads.... and I have experienced that even when I speak CLEARLY... there is someone to come in and twist my words... These people seem to be dominating the forums... the bullies... and the arrogant ones... They spoil the soup...

Anyways... I still have not decided what I am going to do.... or how I could be of service to this place... in a way that would actually mean something... I am in communication with a few people and I have been encouraging them. I like your idea.