"That Wicked" has problems!

[Earburner]

The Son of man was standing before them on earth ...Luke 19:42-44
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. [43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, [44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Absolutely!! The KoG was taken from the Jews/Israel, and given to another!!
.
Therefore, ALL of God's OT prophetic pronouncements, having to do with the KoG with them, ARE VOID and dysfunctional.
"the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."
However, for each Jew who believes in Jesus NOW, the New Covenant Promise is:
Rom. 11[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
.
HEAR the words for them:
They will be graffed in again, but ONLY IF they believe in Jesus NOW!
.
After Jesus returns, and the 1st Resurrection, there will be no second chance for Gentiles or Jews, if they are NOT participants/partakers of that 1st resurrection!!
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after the #1 comes the #2.
ALL who were not resurrected in the 1st resurrection, will SURELY show up in the 2nd resurrection, unto damnation, which is the 2nd death!
There will be NO "THE" Millennium on earth!!
NO 2nd chances!!

 

[Earburner]

The "judgment" is NOW: John 3:18-KJV

 

[Earburner]

I checked the Greek text on Bible Hub. All but one of the translations (including the NASB--which is considered the most accurate Greek to English translation) said "the". I then checked the Greek text and all but the KJV had "the" (Gr. tes) Since nearly all of the Book of Revelation deals with the time of the End, it seems safe to say that the "martyrs" of Rev. 7:14 are those out of the Great Tribulation (the "time of Jacob's trouble") since their numbers are being added to and since they were beheaded. There have been actually very few Christian martyrs who have been beheaded, going back through the past 20 centuries. The most common methods of execution were to be burned at the stake (I won't go into the more gruesome ones) drowned, or starved. Compared to the other methods of how they were martyred in the past, beheading was a mercy--it was typically over quickly. So, since John mentions that the martyrs he saw had been beheaded--it was probable that it was projecting forward far into the future and that their numbers were being added to, indicate that it is the time of the End.

As I did say earlier in this thread, satan has done a phenomenal job at causing confusion, by bring in hundreds of different interpretations, from ANOTHER Greek Text, being that of "Wescott and Hort".
You can't just mix and match two different schools of thought, for most surely along the way, you are bound to make up/fabricate something fictional.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Correct! The MoB is not in the world as of yet, but at the moment, we all are NOW participating in the design and construction of it (credit/debit cards-crypto currency- digital cash). I repeat: when the MoB is implemented, it will be NON-religious.
.
Rev. 20:4
A. And I saw thrones [in Heavenly places]
As new spiritual creatures, we are made to sit in Heavenly places, in Christ Jesus. Eph. 2
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
.
B. and they sat upon them,
They that sat upon the thrones, is everyone who is "born again" of His Spirit.
.
C. and judgment was given unto them:
We are NOW kings and Priests of God, ambassadors in Christ's stead, and therefore we have the authority to help people to repent towards God, through Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, or allow them to retain their sins.
John 3:18- IS THAT judgment!
.
D. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
Speaks of the Early church.
.
E. and for the word of God,
Speaks of the Middle age church.
.
F. and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
Speaks of the End time church.
.
G. and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Speaks of the Age of God's Grace now, of which has NO length or limitation of OUR sense of time applied to it, just as it is said:
1000 years is AS one day, and one day is AS a thousand years to God.
God's understanding of "time" makes no sense to our "natural" and finite minds, because it speaks of His eternity.
The only sign that WILL be significant, that Jesus is about to return, is when there will be "a falling away" (from faith), on a Global scale. 2 Thes. 2:3; Luke 18:8; 2 Peter 3:9.

Realized last night the water may still be dirty on my end. Confused over visitation and why 1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Yet He spoke of the Son of man’s visitation to the Jews. How many visitations are there. Time has always been a hinderance to me. Do see what you are saying in: where your treasure is, so there also is your heart. Get what you are saying that is outside of time where no man can break in and steal nor can it be moth eaten. (Which is comforting in) Isaiah 50:9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

As judging now I would say the same in subduing all under His feet. Yet then comes up the verses of Judge nothing before it’s time and to step aside for vengeance belongs to the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

The First Resurrection began with the resurrection of Christ (He is the "first fruit" of the harvest of the righteous--the "firstborn of many brethren"). That resurrection will continue until the time of the Second Resurrection. That is why the Bible tells us, in Revelation 20:6--> "Blessed and holy are those who share in the First Resurrection. For them, the Second Death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him a thousand years."

Yes, as I have also said, Jesus is the first Resurrection, and all we who believe, are now partakers of His divine nature.
Therefore, when He physically returns from Heaven, in flaming fire, the dead in Christ shall rise first, and we who are alive and remain, shall be changed into His likeness, of His NEW body, and will be "caught up" with them, to be with the Lord for forever.

In that very moment, simultaneously, all who are NOT born again, ARE NONE HIS, and will suffer His vengeance of immediate death, and the punishment of eternal death. Yes, his reward is with Him, being both immortality for all who believe, and for all who don't believe, eternal death and destruction.

By the Eternal Fire of Himself, the entirety of the surface of the earth will be burned up and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, with hell, being the graves, included.

The judgment FOR ALL is NOW- John 3:18.
Because of John 3:18, both we who believe and those who don't, "HAVE ALREADY" appeared before the Judgment Seat of Christ, BY the judgment of John 3:18.
We must ALL appear (come) in His presence NOW!
.
If we DON'T, but then do die, the judgment remains for them as "condemned already", as it was spoken by God to Adam. They remain to be "the natural man", the man of sin, the son of perdition", along with "their father, the devil."
.
There is no secret, invisible "Rapture" to come prior to His visible Return in Glory!!
Nor will there be a physical "Millennium" on earth, for a second chance!
All of that mumbo-jumbo is the fabrications of Religion.

 

[Earburner]

Yet He spoke of the Son of man’s visitation to the Jews. How many visitations are there. Time has always been a hinderance to me. Do see what you are saying in: where your treasure is, so there also is your heart. Get what you are saying that is outside of time where no man can break in and steal nor can it be moth eaten. (Which is comforting in) Isaiah 50:9 Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

Hear what the Lord says, and not what Religion fabricates:
Jesus spoke to the Jews plainly, as to HOW the Grace of God would COME to them, and it is through the Gentiles who are "born again of His Spirit":
Mat. 23[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That is how the Lord does now visit them, through us who believe, and NO OTHER WAY!!

 

[Earburner]

But it is also important to note that when the New Testament speaks of "immortality" that it is speaking of life unending.

What??
The physical body of Jesus' Resurrection is indestructible and incorruptible. When He comes again, He is exactly what Eternal Life will be for us. Not just only "life unending".
How else did you think that you are going to stand in the presence of His Eternal Fiery Being?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have been seriously studying on four words in 2 Thes. 2:8-9, using both the KJV/Strong's and the Young's concordance: specifically the words "that Wicked", and "even him"
.
I am not looking at any other bible versions, because they are translated from the Wescott & Hort Greek text- 1881. All of such translations purposely and specifically cause the reader to falsely learn that 2 Thes. 2:8 is in the singular, as being one man.
.
In the 1611 KJV, it is very possible that a wrong word was used, being the word "that". If so, then in 1611, it could it have been done so, in order to give support to a popular false belief at that time, the Pope being antichrist.
.
In the Textus Receptus Greek- 1512, ["the" wicked] is used and not ["that" wicked].
However, in the 1611- KJV, the opposite is expressed, being ["that" Wicked].
.
Secondly, now that we may have a wrong word of "that" being used, I can see why the word "Wicked" is written with an upper case "W". It's done so as to force the reader to see it in the singular.
.
At that time, during the Protestant Reformation period, it was commonly held by most Protestant churches, that the Pope was "the" Antichrist.
.
However, if the word "the" was used, and the word "wicked" was without an upper case "W", then the entire context of 2 Thes. would be interpreted in perfect harmony, and in the plural.
.
The word "Wicked" is found in the Strong's, but it is NOT found in the Young's concordance.
I have learned that when the Young's Concordance omits a word, it's because the word was purposely inserted by the translators of the KJV.
.
Conclusion:
The correct word to be used in that scripture is "the" and not "that", and therefore a capital "w" for "wicked" would not have been used as being necessary.
When the upper case "W" is used, it denotes the singular. When it's not, the plural is relevant to the verse and the context.
.
So now, having said that, let's read 2 Thes. 2:8 in a portion of the context, with the acceptable changes:
[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[ 9 ] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[ 11 ] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[ 12 ] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
.
OK, we are not done yet. I have found that the words "Even him", are also suspect of being an insertion by the translators. Those words are not found in the Textus Receptus Greek text. Nor are they found in Young's concordance or the Strong's.
Those words are an insertion by the KJV translators also, being evident to give support to the erroneous words "that Wicked".

So, are we looking at a fabrication, or an oversight in translation?
Given the fact that the "Protestant Reformation" was in full swing, through Martin Luther, I can see how the translators might give support to such a "just cause". Departing from the RCC was no small matter.
.
Since it is "open season" for insertions, then let it be this: "Even them".
At least, it will blend with the plural nature of the context, as well as the context of the KJV New Testament scriptures, specifically the book of 1 John.
So now, let's read it all, with all the acceptable insertions:
[ 7 ] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[ 8 ] And then shall [the wicked] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[ 9 ] [Even them], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[ 10 ] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Now I have a question, is THIS the "strong delusion to believe a lie, that God will send"?
Is "that spirit of antichrist" singular or plural?
No doubt, the wording implies that it is to be read and understood IN THE PLURAL.
.
If so many are reading that to be singular, as being one man, is that THE lie that many shall believe??

Greetings, Earburner.
The basis of translating ὁ ἄνομος in the singular is because the word is singular in every manuscript known to Christendom, including in the Textus Receptus.

I understand what you were trying to argue concerning the phrase "even him" and translating the definite article as "that" (though your argument could be opposed here), but what specific manuscript are you citing that has ὁ ἄνομος in the plural in 2 Thessalonians 2:8?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

 

[Earburner]

Greetings, Earburner.
The basis of translating ὁ ἄνομος in the singular is because the word is singular in every manuscript known to Christendom, including in the Textus Receptus.

I understand what you were trying to argue concerning the phrase "even him" and translating the definite article as "that" (though your argument could be opposed here), but what specific manuscript are you citing that has ὁ ἄνομος in the plural in 2 Thessalonians 2:8?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

Hello Hidden,
Thank you for your sincere interest and study of this matter.
I am NOT out to disprove the KJV, for it is my only preference for reading and study.
.
As a born again Christian for 40+ years, I did wander off for about 10 years into the many Newer versions of today, translated from the Wescott and Hort Greek text. I was given a NT 8 translation bible, of which drove me to utter confusion and frustration, to the point of tearing up that book, and went back to the KJV, trusting in the Lord ONLY for His interpretation, of His OWN words. Isa. 55:8-9; John 16:13.
Since then, I am simply amazed at what He has revealed to me, and not that of "learned men" of the many denominations of the Religion of
"Church-ianity".
Do I attend church regularly? Yes! I do!
But now "in his Peace, that passes all understanding" .
.
The concept of a singular man, that "Church-ianity" loves to call "THE" Anti Christ", has always bothered me, because in the KJV, the word "antichrist" is ALWAYS written in the plural.
It was a hard pill for me to swallow, when I found the words used in the TR Greek, were "the" wicked, and not "That" Wicked, as written in the KJV.
To me, that was "a game changer" in my understanding, and a confirmation that my suspicions were correct.
.
What most christians are not aware of is, the JW bible is also translated from the Westcott and Hort Greek. Is it any wonder why the JWs despise the TR Greek, and the KJV?

We all judge the JWs as having to produce their very own bible. But haven't we been doing the same, by departing from the KJV, and running off (and at the mouth) with all of the "special" versions, being ALSO FROM the WH Greek?
.
Yes, it is become mass confusion and pandemonium. Satan has done a terrific job of keeping us divided, by introducing "two different schools of thought", with the TR Greek and the WH Greek. Fictional stories shall abound, and they are!

So then, is it:
"THE" Anti-Christ? Or is it "that spirit of antichrist"?
Singular, or plural?
The context of the book of 2 Thes. says plural, of which agrees with the books of 1,2 John.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

As I did say earlier in this thread, satan has done a phenomenal job at causing confusion, by bring in hundreds of different interpretations, from ANOTHER Greek Text, being that of "Wescott and Hort".
You can't just mix and match two different schools of thought, for most surely along the way, you are bound to make up/fabricate something fictional.

Across the full set of Biblical language scholars (conservatives as well as liberals), they say both the Wescott and Hort as well as the many versions of the TR are ignored--that there is no significant difference (in terms of the orthodox doctrines of Christianity) between them. (Did you read the article I linked?) Having hysterics over one or another translation and insisting that only one version has God's blessing and that all the rest are "of the devil" really impedes the spreading of the basic gospel which is obtainable in ALL translations. The source of the confusion is "me, me, me--mine's the best and my interpretation is the best!" There are debates over the potential errors in ALL of them. But if you have faith that God can and does protect the message contained in His word (which I have), then you ride much easier in the saddle. "Straining at gnats" is a religious preoccupation but it does nothing to advance the gospel. (Plus, it sounds like you're going to give yourself a stroke. Relax. God's in control.)

 

[Earburner]

The basis of translating ὁ ἄνομος in the singular is because the word is singular in every manuscript known to Christendom, including in the Textus Receptus.

Now, to get to your point, that the TR Greek is in the singular, concerning the words "THE Anti Christ".
.
In my study and research, I referenced the TR Greek on line, the original KJV of 1611, the KJV of today, Strong's Con.-TR Greek, and Young's Analytical Con.- TR Greek.
In all of that, most people are ignoring how the translators "flagged" word insertions by the translators. They used [brackets].

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

What??
The physical body of Jesus' Resurrection is indestructible and incorruptible. When He comes again, He is exactly what Eternal Life will be for us. Not just only "life unending".
How else did you think that you are going to stand in the presence of His Eternal Fiery Being?

Why are you picking at my words? You should know what I meant, since I have made no secret of my beliefs. That is what immortal beings possess--life unending. I said nothing of the particulars--you are reading much too much into my wording.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Absolutely!! The KoG was taken from the Jews/Israel, and given to another!!
.
Therefore, ALL of God's OT prophetic pronouncements, having to do with the KoG with them, ARE VOID and dysfunctional.
"the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."
However, for each Jew who believes in Jesus NOW, the New Covenant Promise is:
Rom. 11[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
.
HEAR the words for them:
They will be graffed in again, but ONLY IF they believe in Jesus NOW!
.
After Jesus returns, and the 1st Resurrection, there will be no second chance for Gentiles or Jews, if they are NOT participants/partakers of that 1st resurrection!!
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after the #1 comes the #2.
ALL who were not resurrected in the 1st resurrection, will SURELY show up in the 2nd resurrection, unto damnation, which is the 2nd death!
There will be NO "THE" Millennium on earth!!
NO 2nd chances!!

The Second Resurrection happens AFTER the Millennial Kingdom--that is what the Bible CLEARLY says (read Revelation 20) in whatever translation you prefer. Do you really think that the detailed prophecies of the latter prophets are "null and void" when they were not predicated on obedience in the first place? They were based on God doing a new work of grace among His people Israel. Yes--Israel and Judah were disgraced by their disobedience and God threw them out of the Land because of their flagrant disregard for His law. But, He also comforted them through the prophets with the message that they would one day be redeemed as a nation. They thought (and most still do today) that it meant that they would be freed from the domination of their political enemies, but God has other plans. First they will come to His Son in faith and obedience and only then will they be freed by His mighty hand. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it untrue.

 

[Earburner]

Across the full set of Biblical language scholars (conservatives as well as liberals), they say both the Wescott and Hort as well as the many versions of the TR are ignored--that there is no significant difference (in terms of the orthodox doctrines of Christianity) between them. (Did you read the article I linked?) Having hysterics over one or another translation and insisting that only one version has God's blessing and that all the rest are "of the devil" really impedes the spreading of the basic gospel which is obtainable in ALL translations. The source of the confusion is "me, me, me--mine's the best and my interpretation is the best!" There are debates over the potential errors in ALL of them. But if you have faith that God can and does protect the message contained in His word, then you ride much easier in the saddle. "Straining at gnats" is a religious preoccupation but it does nothing to advance the gospel.

When God shall send strong delusion to believe a LIE, will YOU KNOW if it will be accomplished by "a singular man", or will it be through a "majority of men", in the plural?? The TR Greek reveals that it SHOULD be understood in the plural!
.
2 Thes. 2
[8] And then shall that (the) W wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him (them), whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

 

[Earburner]

Why are you picking at my words? You should know what I meant, since I have made no secret of my beliefs. That is what immortal beings possess--life unending. I said nothing of the particulars--you are reading much too much into my wording.

Sorry, I don't know your whole mind!
Many people believe in "unending life" without Jesus!! Just clarifying for others sake.
STOP personalizing what people write, and you won't feel the need go into attack mode for defense.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

When God shall send strong delusion to believe a LIE, will YOU KNOW if it will be accomplished by "a singular man", or will it be through a "majority of men", in the plural?? The TR Greek reveals that it SHOULD be understood in the plural!
.
2 Thes. 2
[8] And then shall that (the) W wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him (them), whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

And what real difference does it make that it is one man or several? We all know that our culture is becoming more and more wicked through the machinations of many individuals. Do you really think I am in the category of people who are mentioned in the last three verses you quoted?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello Hidden,
Thank you for your sincere interest and study of this matter.
I am NOT out to disprove the KJV, for it is my only preference for reading and study.
.
As a born again Christian for 40+ years, I did wander off for about 10 years into the many Newer versions of today, translated from the Wescott and Hort Greek text. I was given a NT 8 translation bible, of which drove me to utter confusion and frustration, to the point of tearing up that book, and went back to the KJV, trusting in the Lord ONLY for His interpretation, of His OWN words. Isa. 55:8-9; John 16:13.
Since then, I am simply amazed at what He has revealed to me, and not that of "learned men" of the many denominations of the Religion of
"Church-ianity".
Do I attend church regularly? Yes! I do!
But now "in his Peace, that passes all understanding" .
.
The concept of a singular man, that "Church-ianity" loves to call "THE" Anti Christ", has always bothered me, because in the KJV, the word "antichrist" is ALWAYS written in the plural.
It was a hard pill for me to swallow, when I found the words used in the TR Greek, were "the" wicked, and not "That" Wicked, as written in the KJV.
To me, that was "a game changer" in my understanding, and a confirmation that my suspicions were correct.
.
What most christians are not aware of is, the JW bible is also translated from the Westcott and Hort Greek. Is it any wonder why the JWs despise the TR Greek, and the KJV?

We all judge the JWs as having to produce their very own bible. But haven't we been doing the same, by departing from the KJV, and running off (and at the mouth) with all of the "special" versions, being ALSO FROM the WH Greek?
.
Yes, it is become mass confusion and pandemonium. Satan has done a terrific job of keeping us divided, by introducing "two different schools of thought", with the TR Greek and the WH Greek. Fictional stories shall abound, and they are!

Thanks for the courteous reply. Now you do know that there are numerous MSS outside of the TR and WH, yes?

So then, is it:
"THE" Anti-Christ? Or is it "that spirit of antichrist"?
Singular, or plural?
The context of the book of 2 Thes. says plural, of which agrees with the books of 1,2 John.

The discussion over the contrast between singular and plural for the word can be an interesting one, and John appears to use the term ἀντίχριστος in the same sense as Jesus used the word ψευδόχριστοι in Matthew 24:24. But even the apostle John uses it in the singular in 1 John 2:18 (in his 1st use), to contrast the teaching on the coming of THE Antichrist (singular) with the fact that there were already many antichrists/false Christs operating in the earth at his time.

But I don't see any MSS that uses the term in the plural in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, even among all the Textus Receptus MSS.

In my study and research, I referenced the TR Greek on line, the original KJV of 1611, the KJV of today, Strong's Con.-TR Greek, and Young's Analytical Con.- TR Greek.

Can you send me a link? I found this one, but as I said, from what I can tell, even every TR MSS reads singular in the verse.
Textus Receptus Bibles

 

[Earburner]

Across the full set of Biblical language scholars (conservatives as well as liberals), they say both the Wescott and Hort as well as the many versions of the TR are ignored--that there is no significant difference (in terms of the orthodox doctrines of Christianity) between them. (Did you read the article I linked?) Having hysterics over one or another translation and insisting that only one version has God's blessing and that all the rest are "of the devil" really impedes the spreading of the basic gospel which is obtainable in ALL translations. The source of the confusion is "me, me, me--mine's the best and my interpretation is the best!" There are debates over the potential errors in ALL of them. But if you have faith that God can and does protect the message contained in His word (which I have), then you ride much easier in the saddle. "Straining at gnats" is a religious preoccupation but it does nothing to advance the gospel. (Plus, it sounds like you're going to give yourself a stroke. Relax. God's in control.)

Really?? I read and study ONLY the KJV, yet I am willing to admit the intentional insertion of a couple of words, in order to support a popular belief among the "Reformists" in 1611.
As for the MANY Newer versions of today, there are many implications and down right word changes, in order to support and agree with what wind of doctrine is popular today.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Sorry, I don't know your whole mind!
Many people believe in "unending life" without Jesus!! Just clarifying for others sake.
STOP personalizing what people write, and you won't feel the need go into attack mode for defense.

Since you addressed it to me, why wouldn't I think that it was intended to be personal? I don't "personalize" what people write unless it is clear that they are attacking me, my beliefs or what I write. I don't "attack"--I refute. If you don't like it, then don't uselessly pick at my words. We both agree on basic doctrine, I'm sure. Arguing over minutiae is a preoccupation of religious folk but it does NOTHING to help the spread of the gospel. In fact, it quite turns people off. No wonder they embrace all manner of kooky beliefs as no one in those "faiths" stands over them beating them with a club on which beliefs are according to the preference of the one wielding the club. I would prefer that you have MY beliefs over what I believe is the reality of the coming Millennial Kingdom, but it is NOT a salvation issue, so I am content to just casually discuss it. You go into hysterics. Calm down--you're going to give yourself a stroke. God is in control--He always has been, He always will be. No matter what happens we are safe in the arms of our Savior Jesus and those that the Father calls, will come to Him in repentance and faith. I'll give you a bit of advice once given to me when I was a new Christian zealot: "If you believe that Father God is all knowledgeable and all powerful, why do you fret so much? The Bible counsels us to let the evildoers do what they do and those who do good to keep on doing good under the guidance of His Spirit. Preaching the gospel is our most important work. That part is our responsibility. God is responsible for the rest."

 

[Earburner]

Since you addressed it to me, why wouldn't I think that it was intended to be personal? I don't "personalize" what people write unless it is clear that they are attacking me, my beliefs or what I write. I don't "attack"--I refute. If you don't like it, then don't uselessly pick at my words. We both agree on basic doctrine, I'm sure. Arguing over minutiae is a preoccupation of religious folk but it does NOTHING to help the spread of the gospel. In fact, it quite turns people off. No wonder they embrace all manner of kooky beliefs as no one in those "faiths" stands over them beating them with a club on which beliefs are according to the preference of the one wielding the club. I would prefer that you have MY beliefs over what I believe is the reality of the coming Millennial Kingdom, but it is NOT a salvation issue, so I am content to just casually discuss it. You go into hysterics. Calm down--you're going to give yourself a stroke. God is in control--He always has been, He always will be. No matter what happens we are safe in the arms of our Savior Jesus and those that the Father calls, will come to Him in repentance and faith. I'll give you a bit of advice once given to me when I was a new Christian zealot: "If you believe that Father God is all knowledgeable and all powerful, why do you fret so much? The Bible counsels us to let the evildoers do what they do and those who do good to keep on doing good under the guidance of His Spirit. Preaching the gospel is our most important work. That part is our responsibility. God is responsible for the rest."

On fire again. STOP!