"That Wicked" has problems!

[Earburner]

I am not attacking you or defending you!
Yes! We are contrary to our study on the religious word The Millennium. I am only sharing what God has shown me, as to what I once DID believe as you still do. The weight of that evidence is far greater for understanding the one thousand years is symbolic of this Age of God's Grace and nothing future.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

On fire again. STOP!

I am NOT "on fire" and I don't obey the commands of anonymous people on the internet.

 

[Earburner]

Thanks for the courteous reply. Now you do know that there are numerous MSS outside of the TR and WH, yes?


The discussion over the contrast between singular and plural for the word can be an interesting one, and John appears to use the term ἀντίχριστος in the same sense as Jesus used the word ψευδόχριστοι in Matthew 24:24. But even the apostle John uses it in the singular in 1 John 2:18 (in his 1st use), to contrast the teaching on the coming of THE Antichrist (singular) with the fact that there were already many antichrists/false Christs operating in the earth at his time.

But I don't see any MSS that uses the term in the plural in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, even among all the Textus Receptus MSS.


Can you send me a link? I found this one, but as I said, from what I can tell, even every TR MSS reads singular in the verse.
Textus Receptus Bibles

Your site posted 2 Thes.
2:8 και τοτε αποκαλυφθησεται ο ανομος ον ο κυριος Ax ιησους Ax ανελει TR/BMαναλωσει τω πνευματι του στοματος αυτου και καταργησει τη επιφανεια της παρουσιας αυτου
.
What I used for my study:
2:8 καὶ τότε ἀποκαλυφθήσεται ὁ ἄνομος ὃν ὁ κύριος ἀναλώσει τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ
.
The GREEK TEXTUS RECEPTUS of the NEW TESTAMENT

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I am not attacking you or defending you!
Yes! We are contrary to our study on the religious word The Millennium. I am only sharing what God has shown me, as to what I once DID believe as you still do. The weight of that evidence is far greater for understanding the one thousand years is symbolic of this Age of God's Grace and nothing future.

That is your OPINION--it is not shared by many, many conservative scholars who have studied the issue in depth. I am convinced that we should take it literally unless it produces some kind of absurdity. If you would like to challenge your position, read Dwight Pentecost's (with a name like that, he had to be a theologian ), Things to Come. This is, as I said, not a salvation issue so I am content to casually discuss it. I may be wrong, you may be wrong or we BOTH may be wrong. And I'm okay with that--we'll find out in the future. Now, we "see through a glass darkly". The Apostle Paul heard from God as much or more than any follower of Christ, and for him to say that is, I think, our clue about how we should be gracious to one another in our differences unless it is frank false teaching on important doctrines for salvation and conduct of a Christian.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your site posted 2 Thes.
2:8 και τοτε αποκαλυφθησεται ο ανομος ον ο κυριος Ax ιησους Ax ανελει TR/BMαναλωσει τω πνευματι του στοματος αυτου και καταργησει τη επιφανεια της παρουσιας αυτου
.
What I used for my study:
2:8 καὶ τότε ἀποκαλυφθήσεται ὁ ἄνομος ὃν ὁ κύριος ἀναλώσει τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ καὶ καταργήσει τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ
.
The GREEK TEXTUS RECEPTUS of the NEW TESTAMENT

ὁ ἄνομος is singular, yes? I think you are arguing for a plural interpretation in spite of a singular use, given other evidence in the NT and the text itself. But that would be a very hard sell in academic circles. They would likely disqualify your argument on the grounds of the clear singular use of the word itself in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

But blessings in Christ. I have no problems with people searching new lines of thinking and interpretation, and we each have our own paths to take in attaining to the truth. I'm certain you will continue to as you proceed in Christ.

Best wishes,
Hidden

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Really?? I read and study ONLY the KJV, yet I am willing to admit the intentional insertion of a couple of words, in order to support a popular belief among the "Reformists" in 1611.
As for the MANY Newer versions of today, there are many implications and down right word changes, in order to support and agree with what wind of doctrine is popular today.

That insults the many, many scholars who have given their lives in the pursuit of the Truth. I do not believe that any of them try to be "popular"--that is the province of mega pa$tor$. Translators are always faced with the quandary of what word is the "best fit" for the conveying of what the original text was saying--and they often disagree. But that is okay as long as the basic doctrine gets through (and it does).

 

[Earburner]

That is your OPINION--it is not shared by many, many conservative scholars who have studied the issue in depth. I am convinced that we should take it literally unless it produces some kind of absurdity. If you would like to challenge your position, read Dwight Pentecost's (with a name like that, he had to be a theologian ), Things to Come. This is, as I said, not a salvation issue so I am content to casually discuss it. I may be wrong, you may be wrong or we BOTH may be wrong. And I'm okay with that--we'll find out in the future. Now, we "see through a glass darkly". The Apostle Paul heard from God as much or more than any follower of Christ, and for him to say that is, I think, our clue about how we should be gracious to one another in our differences unless it is frank false teaching on important doctrines for salvation and conduct of a Christian.

You don't hear what I have said. My guidance is EXACTLY as the Lord wills:

Prov, 3[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not [trust not] unto thine own understanding
[or the understanding of the scholarly learned].

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

By the Eternal Fire of Himself, the entirety of the surface of the earth will be burned up and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, with hell, being the graves, included.

In a literal reading of the Book of Revelation, the earth does not suffer "fire from heaven" until the final rebellion at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

There is no secret, invisible "Rapture" to come prior to His visible Return in Glory!!
Nor will there be a physical "Millennium" on earth, for a second chance!

Scripture disagrees with you.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You don't hear what I have said. My guidance is EXACTLY as the Lord wills:

Prov, 3[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not [trust not] unto thine own understanding
[or the understanding of the scholarly learned].

Or the understanding of "Earburner"?

 

[Earburner]

ὁ ἄνομος is singular, yes? I think you are arguing for a plural interpretation in spite of a singular use, given other evidence in the NT and the text itself. But that would be a very hard sell in academic circles. They would likely disqualify your argument on the grounds of the clear singular use of the word itself in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

But blessings in Christ. I have no problems with people searching new lines of thinking and interpretation, and we each have our own paths to take in attaining to the truth. I'm certain you will continue to as you proceed in Christ.

Best wishes,
Hidden

Best wishes?
As I previously posted much earlier in this thread,
maybe you should see my study of Greek/English side by side from Biblehub:
Strong's Greek English Morphology
2532[e] καὶ
kai And Conj
5119[e] τότε
tote then Adv
601[e] ἀποκαλυφθήσεται
apokalyphthēsetai will be revealed V-FIP-3S
3588[e] ὁ
ho the Art-NMS
459[e] ἄνομος,
anomos lawless [one],
The word "one" is an [insertion]

 

[Earburner]

Or the understanding of "Earburner"?

See how you are? Why do you do that? Why personalize everything?

 

[Earburner]

In a literal reading of the Book of Revelation, the earth does not suffer "fire from heaven" until the final rebellion at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.
Scripture disagrees with you.

Your disagreement lies in your false belief in the religious term of "The Millennial Kingdom on earth" .
I understand that the 1000 years is symbolic of "God's Age of Grace", which began on Pentecost, and shall end upon Jesus' sudden and Fiery return in Glory

 

[Earburner]

ὁ ἄνομος is singular, yes? I think you are arguing for a plural interpretation in spite of a singular use, given other evidence in the NT and the text itself. But that would be a very hard sell in academic circles. They would likely disqualify your argument on the grounds of the clear singular use of the word itself in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

Hidden,
I know that you would like to be done with this discussion, but
the dilemma of the translation remains:
ὁ ἄνομος is: the wicked; the lawless.

The KJV translators inserted the word [that] for the word "the".
Do you follow my thinking? By inserting the word " "that", immediately it calls the subject of discussion to be singular.
.
However, by allowing the word "the" to be translated, the plural follows suit, with the subject being discussed.
Surely you can see the difference between:
"that Wicked" as opposed to "the wicked".

 

[Hidden In Him]

Do you follow my thinking?

I understood you, Earburner. But the definite article doesn't make any difference when the word itself is singular in the Greek.

You may think me dismissive because I don't want to argue with you over this, but that would be misunderstanding me. I have a violent temper, and when I can tell that there is likely not to be agreement between me and someone, I back away peacefully well before my bad side comes out and I take their head off with a verbal chainsaw.

As it is, I meant what I said. I think you are doing well by searching down whatever road interests you. Just for future reference, be open to the possibility that you may miss it on occasion.

Blessings in Christ.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

See how you are? Why do you do that? Why personalize everything?

Because you pontificate as the only one who understands the Bible fully.

 

[Earburner]

There is no mistake, or hidden agenda in what I have shown.
In the context of 2 Thes. 2:8, the difference in using "that Wicked", as opposed to the correct usage of "the wicked", one can immediately see the
"domino effect" of the NUMEROUS false doctrines that are hinged to that slight tweak, of changing one word, with the embellishment of an upper case "W" added to the word "Wicked.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

There is no mistake, or hidden agenda in what I have shown.
In the context of 2 Thes. 2:8, the difference in using "that Wicked", as opposed to the correct usage of "the wicked", one can immediately see the
"domino effect" of the NUMEROUS false doctrines that are hinged to that slight tweak, of changing one word, with the embellishment of an upper case "W" added to the word "Wicked.

Well, congratulations on having your Church of the "Earburner".

 

[Earburner]

I understood you, Earburner. But the definite article doesn't make any difference when the word itself is singular in the Greek.

You may think me dismissive because I don't want to argue with you over this, but that would be misunderstanding me. I have a violent temper, and when I can tell that there is likely not to be agreement between me and someone, I back away peacefully well before my bad side comes out and I take their head off with a verbal chainsaw.

As it is, I meant what I said. I think you are doing well by searching down whatever road interests you. Just for future reference, be open to the possibility that you may miss it on occasion.

Blessings in Christ.

I am sorry to say, that you are coming across to me, as if you solved the problem, by simply stating that my research is error. You have presented nothing that confounds or contradicts the proof of my research.
So, I am not sure if you are missing what I am saying, as an oversight, or you choose to ignore the veracity of this fact, of a purposeful error committed by the translators of the KJV, in approx. 1611, right in the middle of the "Protestant Reformation".

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Your disagreement lies in your false belief in the religious term of "The Millennial Kingdom on earth" .
I understand that the 1000 years is symbolic of "God's Age of Grace", which began on Pentecost, and shall end upon Jesus' sudden and Fiery return in Glory

The Age of Grace did begin on Pentecost--I agree. But Scripture definitely says that there will be a time between the Age of Grace and the End. And that is the Millennium.

 

[Earburner]

I can understand that the word is singular, as is "wicked" or "lawless", but again in relation to that translation, the article of "that" or "the" paints the picture as to whether the word shall be read and understood in the singular or the plural.