the 7th Trump

[David in NJ]

What about the 8th day?
(I suppose we;ll need the early writings to answer that)
Hint: What day comes after the 7th day?

In Scripture, the number 8 signifies 'new beginning'.

The 8th Day comes after the 1,000 Year Reign

Revelation 21:1-7

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people,
and God Himself will be with them as their God.b
‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c
and there will be no more death
or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”

And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.”
And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.
To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. The one who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm not familiar with pre-trib rapture doctrine separating Jew from Gentile in Christ. ???
And I used to be Pre-Trib. Now I'm just Post-Toasties.

View attachment 32282

SEE the "Offers" at the top right corner of the Toasties box.............that is Revelation chapter 21

 

[David in NJ]

I'm not familiar with pre-trib rapture doctrine separating Jew from Gentile in Christ. ???
And I used to be Pre-Trib. Now I'm just Post-Toasties.

View attachment 32282

Keep em coming for my day would not be complete without laughter - ty

 

[Enoch111]

It is irrefutable Scriptural Truth that there will be only One Second Coming of Christ = Hebrews 9:28 "Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him."

We need to carefully note that this appearing is "to bring salvation". There is only one event where Christ brings salvation (or more precisely the culmination of salvation), and that is at the Resurrection/Rapture. Salvation includes justification, sanctification, and glorification, and in this case it is the glorification of the saints.

Therefore this verse has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ, since that is when He brings DAMNATION to His enemies. Notice carefully: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

Would anyone weep and wail if Christ was bringing them salvation? Which means that the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming are two DISTINCT and separate events, separated by at least seven years.

Also the 7th trumpet has absolutely nothing to do with either the Resurrection/Rapture or the Second Coming. It is meant to announce the final events of God's wrath against an unbelieving and wicked world. And this happens BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

We need to carefully note that this appearing is "to bring salvation". There is only one event where Christ brings salvation (or more precisely the culmination of salvation), and that is at the Resurrection/Rapture. Salvation includes justification, sanctification, and glorification, and in this case it is the glorification of the saints.

Therefore this verse has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ, since that is when He brings DAMNATION to His enemies. Notice carefully: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

Would anyone weep and wail if Christ was bringing them salvation? Which means that the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming are two DISTINCT and separate events, separated by at least seven years.

Also the 7th trumpet has absolutely nothing to do with either the Resurrection/Rapture or the Second Coming. It is meant to announce the final events of God's wrath against an unbelieving and wicked world. And this happens BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.

Your opening statement is 100% PURE TRUTH and BEAUTIFUL - AMEN AMEN AMEN

the Second Coming is "just as in the days of Noah" = Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ

therefore, the world(all of mankind) are given only two possible outcomes:
a.) those who embrace Salvation/JESUS and wait for His Second Coming = Hebrews 9:28, 1 Thess & 2 Thess, 1 John 3:1-3

b.) those who reject the Gospel of God = Revelation 1:7, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John ch2, 2 Peter ch2

 

[David in NJ]

We need to carefully note that this appearing is "to bring salvation". There is only one event where Christ brings salvation (or more precisely the culmination of salvation), and that is at the Resurrection/Rapture. Salvation includes justification, sanctification, and glorification, and in this case it is the glorification of the saints.

Therefore this verse has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ, since that is when He brings DAMNATION to His enemies. Notice carefully: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

Would anyone weep and wail if Christ was bringing them salvation? Which means that the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming are two DISTINCT and separate events, separated by at least seven years.

Also the 7th trumpet has absolutely nothing to do with either the Resurrection/Rapture or the Second Coming. It is meant to announce the final events of God's wrath against an unbelieving and wicked world. And this happens BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.

Can i ask a blessing from you today?

i am in much pain and weakness and i must finish a job that i started yesterday ( i am a Arborist)

Would you lift up prayer to our FATHER in Heaven for strength and protection that i may finish, with success, this job today = thank you

 

[Taken]

Hi @David in NJ ~

Addressing a few of your points ~
* Tribulation specific “of those days”…
IS the wrath of the Lamb. (Rev 6)

* Not knowing “the wrath, tribulations would come down from heaven”….
Has been openly spoken and taught throughout the whole world for 2,000 years, (regardless if the world believes it)

* Luke and Matthew give snippets regarding the future wrath and tribulations that shall come down from heaven.

* Luke speaks expressly of “the tribes” being gathered, which is “ISRAEL”.

* The Tribulation of those days, begins with Wrath of the Lamb. His wrath, IS the day Great Power is given Satan and his band of Demonic angels, power and authority to conquer and kill and control the world.

* ISRAEL, (a Race, the Tribes, the Elect, God Believers) are many who ARE Bodily KILLED, and their SOULS, gathered together (under the altar), waiting for the rest of their BELIEVING IN God, kinsmen to bodily die.

* God intervenes. (Rev 7)
Tribesmen (primarily today all called Jew)…
Are given notice to Flee their homes.
(Remember Satan is busy conquering).
The Jew are told to go to Mt. Sion.
For WHAT? To hear the Gospel of Jesus.
From WHOM? Their own KINSMAN
WHY to a Mountain? (Mountain tops, are in the clouds. In the clouds is the lower heavens and always depicted as a Holy Place.)
WHY? Give the Jews (every tribesmen) the teaching of the Gospel of Jesus, from their own Kinsman? (After all have the Gentile Race been teaching the Gospel of Jesus to the Tribesmen for 2,000 years)….?
DILEMMA…Gentiles HAVE been TEACHING Gentiles for 2,000 years.
Tribesmen have been HEARING what Gentiles TEACH…..YET continued TEACHING Tribesmen for 2,000 years, of WAITING for their Messiah to Appear.
* Note WHO ARE the Tribesmen TEACHING on Mt Sion? 144,000. 12,000 of each of the 12 Tribes…..AND WHO else is there?
A Lamb.
* These ARE the days the Tribesmen” are introduced to THE TRUE KNOWLEDGE (FROM their own KINSMEN) and the Presence of their SAVIOR.

What about those Tribesmen IN Jerusalem?
(Remembering the Center of Judaism Jerusalem has Satan’s attention to capture.)

* God intervenes… Rev 11
(Gods intervening IS NOT Stopping Satan (Yet), but rather IS focusing ATTENTION ON His ELECT, Gods People ISRAEL, as revealed in the OT.

* God sends TWO Witnesses (with Power) to Jerusalem EXPRESSLY to Preach the Gospel of Jesus, to ANY and ALL willing to hear and listen. They have POWER to Preach, WITHOUT any and all attempts to SILENCE them to be thwarted. Their Preaching WITHOUT incumbencies is accomplished in 3.5 years….and once their Preaching task is accomplished….their Power relinquished….and they are KILLED.

The end of days Tribulations sent down from Heaven is primarily to:
Fulfill Gods Promise to His People ISRAEL…
To SEPARATE the DIVIDED….
THOSE who are WITH and WITHOUT:
God, Jesus, Christ …

WHY the Delineation…. God, Jesus, Christ ?
Remember men have FREEWILL to BELIEVE IN what they choose….

Some believe in God, but not Jesus, but not Christ.

Some believe in Jesus but not He is the Christ.

God, Jesus, Christ….are the “US”, the “OUR”, in Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

God, Jesus, Christ: IS Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Jesus, God, Christ: IS Lord God Almighty

All throughout the Knowledge given manKIND, bit by bit, IS introducing manKIND to the WHOLE of God…
His ONE Being, His WORD, HIS POWER.

And the SAVING of manKIND, it’s METHOD, it’s TIMING, is Dependent UPON, IF, WHAT and WHEN a man CHOOSES BELIEVE.

THE ONE assuredness Given ManKIND TO RECEIVE SALVATION….”REQUIRES” a mans “FULL BELIEF IN….the “us / our”….
Lord God Almighty
Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Jesus Christ God
And such a man who HAS OBTAINED that “ASSUREDNESS”….IS Excepted FROM, Escaped FROM, Already Delivered FROM;
The Tribulations and Wrath God SHALL SEND DOWN from Heaven upon the Face of this Whole World (Earth).

The MYSTERY is …. WHAT ABOUT THOSE, who DID NOT, WHOLLY believe IN:
The WHOLENESS of God?

Matters NOT WHY they did not believe IN THE WHOLENESS of God….it ONLY matters they DID NOT BELIEVE in the WHOLENESS of God….Lord God Almighty.

He WHO HAS believed in ANY PART of God…. (in God, in Jesus, In Christ) … SHALL BE SAVED during the Tribulation…

Nothing NEW….Any having KNOWLEDGE of and rejection of the Lord God Almighty….. results in an admonishment FROM God…
NOT a REJECTION from God…but rather a CORRECTION from God….

AND the Last DAYS Tribulations sent down from Heaven….IS primarily fixated ON the TRIBES of Israel being admonished, Taught, and BECOMING SAVED, fulfilling Gods Promise to THEM.

And not to overlook, those who rejected….
God, Jesus, Christ….the Last DAYS tribulations is Judgements, Punishments, for having heard and rejected ANY portion of the WHOLE of God…His Word…His Power/Authority.

AND THE MEN WHO….Wholly Accepted the WHOLENESS of God….BEFORE Gods LAST DAYS tribulations and wrath send down from Heaven….

THEY….became BY the Power of God themselves…MADE WHOLE…body, soul, spirit………AND WHAT?
**. Subject to Gods anger, wrath, admonishments, negative judgements sent down from Heaven upon the Face of Whole Earth?

** No. They LIKE NOAH whom God Saved from the First Great Tribulations sent down from Heaven to destroy inhabitants on the Face of the Earth….
THEY LIKE NOAH, shall BE LIFTED UP above the Face of the Earth…
** TO WHERE? Same as NOAH…to the CLOUDS.
** THEN WHAT? Same as in NOAH’S Day…
Noah remained ABOVE the Face of the Earth, IN the Clouds, WHILE God Destroyed all that He Pleased which remained upon the face of the Earth….AND THEN God returned NOAH to the FACE of the Earth.

Once a man IS MADE “WHOLE”…. He is Already Delivered from the Wrath to Come.
He simply WAITS for “some unknown hour”, to be LIFTED UP off the FACE of the Earth, TO the Clouds, WHILE God fulfills His Promise to Israel, and fulfills His Prophecy of MANIFESTING for men to SEE, What Jesus Proclaimed….WITHOUT men SEEING, He has Already OVERCOME “THIS” World. AND those MADE WHOLE, Believing IN the WHOLE of God, are already themselves MADE WHOLE, and RISEN UP to the Clouds…RAPTURE….UNTIL the Lord God Almighty Finishes His Works.

If you recall…Jesus was sent to Earth to accomplish particular things….And once He accomplished what He was sent to do…
He expressly said…it is finished.

If you recall…Once the Lord God Almighty accomplishes His Works (during the Last days of their Earth as we know it )…
He will say, it is done.

Rapture, is about removing from the FACE of the Earth….those who ARE already MADE “WHOLE”…which is an offering of God, made possible for Every man…TO FREELY CHOOSE to be MADE WHOLLY WHOLE….or not.
And those who ARE MADE WHOLE….before the Great Last Days Trib begins…ARE risen up above the face of the Earth….WHILE God is completing His “git er DONE works”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Can i ask a blessing from you today?

i am in much pain and weakness and i must finish a job that i started yesterday ( i am a Arborist)

Would you lift up prayer to our FATHER in Heaven for strength and protection that i may finish, with success, this job today = thank you

Prayers to the Lord God do have great power, and I will be glad to pray FOR you.

May I point out, your pain IS physical, and suggest you research Scriptural knowledge, or books that have researched Scriptural knowledge of the Herb’s in Scripture which ancient men used (before chemical compounds), how to use them, (pressing, extracting oils, etc. what to do with them, which Herb is for which ailment) to sooth, heal, physical pains.
From my own experience, I have made, oils, lotions, tinctures, etc. aromas to burn, inhale, breath, ingest, depending on the ailment, and testify of their effectiveness.
There are hundreds of remedies sold as “natural”….be cautious…they are not all “pure” or with enough extract to do anything, but effect a monetary exchange from your pocket to theirs.
You don’t need some exotic concoction with the main ingredient only found in some remote country thousands of miles from your location.
The whole world is full of LOCALLY grown herbs, fruits, grains, etc. that suffice.
And no doubt, the majority today, can not recognize locally growing benefits under their feet.

Just a suggestion.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can you see that it's not talking about a different event?

Because it isn't. There isn't anything in one of the passages that contradicts anything in the other. Both refer to the day that Christ returns and the dead in Christ are raised from the dead. How can you not see that they are the same event? That's a better question.

What you are looking at in 1 Thes 4 is the Lord himself coming for the Church.
What you are looking at in 1 Corinthians 15 is the gathering from heaven and earth before the wrath of God. Two completely separate events.

How are you coming to this conclusion, though? What is there in the text itself of those passages which tells you this?

Matthew 24:29-31 occurs at the 6th seal and is 1 Corinthians 15. 1 Thessalonians 4 happens before the seals are opened.

You're just saying things without explaining how you come to your conclusions. That's pointless. I'm not going to waste my time reading any further since you don't bother explaining how exactly you are coming to your conclusions.

 

[The Light]

What you are looking at in 1 Thes 4 is the Lord himself coming for the Church.
What you are looking at in 1 Corinthians 15 is the gathering from heaven and earth before the wrath of God. Two completely separate events.


How are you coming to this conclusion, though? What is there in the text itself of those passages which tells you this?

The reason you are missing it is you don't acknowledge that the final week is about the Chosen that will be regrafted. You completely miss all the details and therefore have no understanding. The 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes SHOULD tell you there is going to be a harvest of the 12 tribes.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That is God's plan, to bring two folds into one. Sure you understand that, you are Spiritual Israelite. Then why do you reject the timing of the plan. You think the comings of Jesus are all the same. They are not. He is bringing two folds together.

Why are those that get victory over the beast singing the song of Moses in Revelation 15? It's because they are of the 12 tribes across the earth and are the seed of the woman. The woman is the nation of Israel who remains on earth during the wrath of God in a protected place.

Rev 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

You don't acknowledge the timing of Gods plan and therefore can't understand why there are different comings.

 

[Keraz]

I'd like to hear more about the covenant with Israel.
That is not the NEW Covenant as I understand it.

Understanding of the New Covenant is according to Chruch doctrines, not what the Bible actually says. Communion is a good thing to do, for remembrance of the sacrifice of Jesus and our public commitment of belief and faith in Jesus.

The new Covenant is not made with national Israel, but with Spiritual Israelites, the true, faithful people of God.

 

[Zao is life]

@St. SteVen @ewq1938 @n2thelight @amigo de christo @No Pre-TB
Another major fault with pre-trib rapture is their doctrine must separate Jew from Gentile in Christ.

Separating Jew from Gentile in Christ is a very serious and subtle attack upon the Gospel.

In reply, Adonai Yeshua HaMoshiach says this: Matthew 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Yes, to put it in (their) plain language, they have the unbelieving Jews suffering the kind of tribulation they suffered in 70 AD, when as Luke states in Luke 21:23, the wrath of God came upon the city, a second time, the second time being after the (so-called) "pre-tribulation rapture" of the church. Then they claim to love that state we all know as "Israel", and the Jewish people, but they can't wait for God's judgment to come upon its unbelief a second time.

@David in NJ Together with Preterists and those who are partially Preterist, they don't realize that the subject of tribulation and great tribulation in the New Testament and the subject of God's judgment / wrath are two separate subjects, the former being what the saints suffer.​

 

[The Light]

You're just saying things without explaining how you come to your conclusions. That's pointless. I'm not going to waste my time reading any further since you don't bother explaining how exactly you are coming to your conclusions.

Ah, the old head in the sand approach and the hope the truth goes away. This is nothing more than a weak, feeble, attempt to stop conversing because you have no answers to the truth of the Word of God. The truth doesn't line up with your preconceived ideas so head in the sand. I showed you in one coming the Lord Himself comes as the bridegroom comes for the bride. I showed you in another coming that He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. I showed you in one coming that it was like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood and another coming was like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom desturction came. I showed you that one coming happens at the trump of God or voice of God and one coming happens at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. One coming the dead in Christ rise first, then later the alive that remain are caught up and one coming the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.

You may think there is only one coming, but the Word says differently. The Lord is going to bring two folds into one just as the Word says. The fig tree has two harvests.

 

[St. SteVen]

@David in NJ Together with Preterists and those who are partially Preterist, they don't realize that the subject of tribulation and great tribulation in the New Testament and the subject of God's judgment / wrath are two separate subjects, the former being what the saints suffer.

Oh boy.
This is quite the circus.

I thought everyone was Pre-Trib before I came on this thread.
All of a sudden everyone switched to Post-Trib/Premil.
I mean, except for the Preterists and... never hear from the Mid-Tribbers anymore... ???

Now we have a 3.5 yr Tribulation, or two Tribulations. And two Raptures, and ... ???
Think I'll stick with my Post-Toasties stance for now. (until the dust settles)

Maybe the Two-Tribs and Two-Rapts can get together under the Mid-Trib banner? Not sure. ???

 

[Keraz]

For now, people are as blind fools, unable to find the truth. Daniel 12:4
Only after the forthcoming worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal, will the Lord give understanding of His plans for our future:

After the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath:
Isaiah 43:8 Bring forth this people, a people whose eyes are blind, whose ears are deaf.

Isaiah 35:4-5 Be strong, fear not; the Lord comes to save you, with His vengeance and retribution. THEN the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped.

Isaiah 42:18-20 You that are deaf; hear now, you that are blind; look and see! Who is so deaf and blind as My servant, the messenger that I send, the one who has My trust?

Isaiah 29:18 On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see.

Isaiah 29:24 Then the confused will gain understanding and the obstinate will take instruction.

Isaiah 32:3-4 Then those who see and hear will understand clearly, the impetuous mind will know and the stammering tongue will speak fluently and plainly.

Our sitution now:
Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak? To whom give warning, who will hear me? The peoples ears are blocked, they are incapable of listening, they treat the Lord’s Word as a reproach.

Psalms 74:9 We cannot see any sign, we have no prophets now.

Isaiah 29:10-14 For you the whole vision is nothing but words in a sealed book.

Isaiah 6:9b-10 However hard you look and listen, you will never perceive.\\

Isaiah 48:8 You don’t understand, because your ears were stopped long ago.

Psalms 94:5 Understand, O dullest of people; when will you be wise?

Deuteronomy 32:28-29 My people are a nation devoid of understanding. If only they had the wisdom to discern what their end will be!

My suggestion to everyone is, Keep calm, avoid making unbiblical and fanciful guesswork, especially do not teach and promote fables, as we surely are in the time Paul said would come. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
We must - Wait for the Day! [new thread]

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, to put it in (their) plain language, they have the unbelieving Jews suffering the kind of tribulation they suffered in 70 AD, when as Luke states in Luke 21:23, the wrath of God came upon the city, a second time, the second time being after the (so-called) "pre-tribulation rapture" of the church. Then they claim to love that state we all know as "Israel", and the Jewish people, but they can't wait for God's judgment to come upon its unbelief a second time.

@David in NJ Together with Preterists and those who are partially Preterist, they don't realize that the subject of tribulation and great tribulation in the New Testament and the subject of God's judgment / wrath are two separate subjects, the former being what the saints suffer.​

What is a Preterist?

 

[The Light]

What is a Preterist?

I think it's a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

 

[ewq1938]

What is a Preterist?

Basically two types. FULL means they believe all prophecy, including the second coming has been fulfilled. Partial believes most was fulfilled, with the second coming and a few other prophecies are still future.

 

[David in NJ]

Basically two types. FULL means they believe all prophecy, including the second coming has been fulfilled. Partial believes most was fulfilled, with the second coming and a few other prophecies are still future.

So then the Lord Jesus was the very first Preterist....

 

[ewq1938]

So then the Lord Jesus was the very first Preterist....

No, he would be a futurist but not the first one.