The Anti-Christ spirit test.

[Behold]

The bible appears to be saying that you didn't understand that correctly. What do you make of this?
Matthew 24

The final or great apostasy....>is "what i make of it".

 

[dev553344]

The final or great apostasy....>is "what i make of it".

I see we disagree. Thanks for your time.

 

[Behold]

Ok let see if we can get this Thread back on Track.


The Gospel, is this.....>"Christ on the Cross, dying for your sin, so that God will accept you".

That's it.
There is no other GOSPEL.

So, any OTHER gospel......such as.

1. Water
2. Works
3. commandment keeping
4. join the REAL church
5. enduring to the end
6. you can lose your salvation


all of these, and a few more are FALSE Gospels, that try to REPLACE the CROSS. Galatians 1:8
And that effort, is the "Anti-Christ" Spirit.

 

[dev553344]

Ok let see if we can get this Thread back on Track.


The Gospel, is this.....>"Christ on the Cross, dying for your sin, so that God will accept you".

That's it.
There is no other GOSPEL.

So, any OTHER gospel......such as.

1. Water
2. Works
3. commandment keeping
4. join the REAL church
5. enduring to the end
6. you can lose your salvation


all of these, and a few more are FALSE Gospels, that try to REPLACE the CROSS. Galatians 1:8
And that effort, is the "Anti-Christ" Spirit.

So you think that a church that promotes keeping the commandments is the anti-christ church? I think many might say that a church that doesn't teach that would be an apostasy from scriptural teachings.

The problem with the ideas you're presenting are that they don't follow the entirety of the scriptural teachings. It leaves out key scripture and makes doctrine from partial context.

 

[Behold]

So you think that a church that promotes keeping the commandments

If the commandments could save you, ... if keeping the commandments could get you into heaven, then why did Jesus have to die for YOU on the Cross, to keep you out of Hell....devin553344 ?????

If you can figure this out, that will be the day that you come to understand Salvation as this.....John 14:6
But not until.

 

[ScottA]

-
There is only one test you need to give to anyone who says they are a "christian", and you need to apply this spiritual test.
Its the same one you give a denomination.

Its this.

Do they believe this, or not. ??????????????????

"The blood of Jesus that saved me, Keeps me saved".
"Jesus, who saved me, Keeps me saved".

So, just ask them, or just look at the denominations Handbook, their "creed".....etc.
If the church/denomination is built on LEGALISM, its the same as if the person's faith is built on it., and THAT is the "Anti-Christ" proof.

They = DO NOT BELIEVE that CHRIST = keeps them saved.

They instead will show you their SELF SAVING LIST.

Here are the top 4 "anti Christ" ... Heresies that teach that these keep you saved, and not Christ alone.

1. water baptism
2. commandment keeping
3. law
4. confessing sin


These people and these Cults will all agree that Christ saved them......began their salvation, but all CULTS and all HERETICS DO NOT BELIEVE That Christ KEEPS THEM Saved.
So. if He doesn't, who does?

So if Christ and His BLOOD and SACRIFICE does not keep you saved....WHO DOES ????

ahhhhh.

See that?....There is only one Anti-Christ Spirit answer..= "IM SAVING MYSELF,..im trying to keep myself saved with law, commandments, water, works, enduring, or joining a specific CHURCH....."

Reader....THAT is how you discern/discover a heretic or a CULT.

"Test that Spirit", and you have found "anti-Christ".
See, the anti-Christ Spirit is not just Christ rejection....its also the Spirit of LEGALISM.

The anti-Christ spirit in the "church" is the spirit that denies that Christ keeps you saved.
Find that person, or find that "church", and you have discerned that "SPIRIT".

That is the spirit of "anti-Christ"... Its Atheism or = Legalism.

I "Liked" what you said here. It's close enough.

This touches on what is so very simple with God and what He likes in children--they keep it simple. Because it is. Because the outliers are always prone to question--that is the defining nature of Satan, who from the very beginning purposed the same [legality] to Eve in the garden. The rest is history.

In fact...it's probably too simple. In our fallen nature, many are likely to want to question every little part of what you have said. Not that you said it perfectly, but because you (and God) have left just enough foothold for those who will, to lean and press outward. Just watch.

 

[dev553344]

If the commandments could save you, ... if keeping the commandments could get you into heaven, then why did Jesus have to die for YOU on the Cross, to keep you out of Hell....devin553344 ?????

If you can figure this out, that will be the day that you come to understand Salvation as this.....John 14:6
But not until.

While it's true that works cannot save a person, the bible makes it clear that sinning can destroy a person. Matthew 24:12-13

The bible also makes it clear that if you don't feed the hungry and clothe the naked, etc, you will be cast into the lake of fire. So lack of works can destroy you also. Matthew 25:31-46

And that is why I don't believe the doctrine that your teaching. Because it ignores important scripture.

 

[Behold]

This touches on what is so very simple with God and what He likes in children--they keep it simple.

Here is more for you, regarding the anti-Christ spirit.
Notice the perpetrator and what He tries to DO to you, and to the born again.
-
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

see that?
That is Paul talking about believers who are "BEWITCHED"......= "fallen from Grace".
He is explaining what has happened.. to them.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

-
There is only one test you need to give to anyone who says they are a "christian", and you need to apply this spiritual test.
Its the same one you give a denomination.

Its this.

Do they believe this, or not. ??????????????????

"The blood of Jesus that saved me, Keeps me saved".
"Jesus, who saved me, Keeps me saved".

So, just ask them, or just look at the denominations Handbook, their "creed".....etc.
If the church/denomination is built on LEGALISM, its the same as if the person's faith is built on it., and THAT is the "Anti-Christ" proof.

They = DO NOT BELIEVE that CHRIST = keeps them saved.

They instead will show you their SELF SAVING LIST.

Here are the top 4 "anti Christ" ... Heresies that teach that these keep you saved, and not Christ alone.

1. water baptism
2. commandment keeping
3. law
4. confessing sin


These people and these Cults will all agree that Christ saved them......began their salvation, but all CULTS and all HERETICS DO NOT BELIEVE That Christ KEEPS THEM Saved.
So. if He doesn't, who does?

So if Christ and His BLOOD and SACRIFICE does not keep you saved....WHO DOES ????

ahhhhh.

See that?....There is only one Anti-Christ Spirit answer..= "IM SAVING MYSELF,..im trying to keep myself saved with law, commandments, water, works, enduring, or joining a specific CHURCH....."

Reader....THAT is how you discern/discover a heretic or a CULT.

"Test that Spirit", and you have found "anti-Christ".
See, the anti-Christ Spirit is not just Christ rejection....its also the Spirit of LEGALISM.

The anti-Christ spirit in the "church" is the spirit that denies that Christ keeps you saved.
Find that person, or find that "church", and you have discerned that "SPIRIT".

That is the spirit of "anti-Christ"... Its Atheism or = Legalism.

--Jesus does not save men unconditionally but saves those who conditionally obey Him (Hebrews 5:9) and obeying Christ includes conditionally submitting to water baptism as Christ has said (Mark 16:16), to conditionally continue to walk in the light and continue to confess sins in order to have sin continually remitted (1 John 1:7-10)


--it appears what you mean by the term "legalism" is anyone who does not believe nor goes along with your particular theological bias is a "legalist".

A little history on the term "legalism":
Defining "Legalism"
(my emp)

"Legalism seems to be like a poem – no one can seem to define it, but everyone thinks they know it when they see it. However, it may surprise you to know that the English word “legalism” itself was not coined until 1645. Even more importantly, there is no Hebrew or Greek word in the Bible that means “legalism.” This latter fact is seldom appreciated. In all of the debates that Paul had with Judaizing teachers, in all the responses he had to their teachings, not once did he ever call them “legalists.” Why not? Because of the simple reason that every Jew – including Jesus, Paul, the Pharisees, and the Judaizers – believed that a person’s works, his deeds, his obedience to God, was without doubt part of a right relationship with God. Within Judaism, that was never at issue. No Jew in that day and age debated whether or not “works” were part of being right with God. Everyone agreed that they were."

"It was only after Martin Luther came up with his doctrine of “faith only” (which he, mistakenly, attributed to the apostle Paul) that the modern idea of “legalism” was born. Ever since that time, it has been common to refer to people who emphasize obedience to God in deeds (works) which are demanded by God’s word as “legalists.” But, as I pointed out above, in the days of Jesus and the apostles, whether or not people should actually obey God with deeds of righteousness was never an issue. One of the implications of this fact is that it is not accurate (it is, specifically, anachronistic) to describe Paul’s debate with the Judaizers as a debate over legalism. It simply was not part of the problem. They didn’t even have a word for it!"

"One modern scholar has put it this way: “…the term only has meaning within the context of a prior decision as to the relationship between faith and human response. … In Christian theology, the meaning of legalism varies with the soteriology of the individual user and his or her tradition” (K. Yinger, “Defining Legalism” Andrews University Seminary Studies 46 (2008) 91-108; at 96-97). Let’s put that into common English: the term “legalism” is so imprecise that it means nothing. It means whatever the person who is using the term thinks it means, or wants it to mean. But that’s not how communication is accomplished. We communicate when we both use words that we understand in the same way. When someone uses a word (like “legalism”) in a way that they alone define, then they are not actually communicating anything."

"To put it plainly, when someone says “you’re a legalist,” all it really means is “you do not conform to my idea of how Christianity saves us.” I suppose, then, that I’m a legalist. Whatever that means."

--If obeying God is legalism, then if we substitute "legalism" for "obedience" to God then Hebrews 5:9 means Jesus is the Author of salvation unto all them who are legalists. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 in flaming fire God will have vengeance upon those who have no legalism. Jesus Himself learned legalism by the things He suffered, (Hebrews 5:8)

 

[Behold]

--it appears what you mean by the term "legalism" is anyone who does not believe or goes along with your particular theological bias is a "legalist".

Legalism : is simply to try to keep yourself saved, or to try to save yourself.
Its a denial of the Cross of Christ as this... John 14:6

Legalim.. is the anti-Christ spirit.....as a religion.
It pretends to be Christian, while it denies the Cross of Christ as the ONLY REASON YOU GO TO HEAVEN.
Its a Christ Rejecting belief that what Christ accomplished on the Cross, is not ENOUGH to keep you saved....so, this "bewitched" person, as Paul describes them, will teach..."here is how you stay saved....you keep commandments, you confess all your sin, you trust in water, you join this particular church....you DO ALL THESE THINGS to try to keep yourself saved".

See that?
That's the anti Christ spirit , as it denies the finished work of Jesus on the Cross as the ONLY REASON God accepts you and keeps you.
The Legalist, generally, will agree that Christ is savior, then they deny it with ...."now, here is what YOU HAVE TO DO"..... "to STAY SAVED"

See that part?
That defines them as Anti-Cross, = Anti Christ.......yet, they will talk about "Christian stuff", till they drop dead.

 

[liafailrock]

-
There is only one test you need to give to anyone who says they are a "christian", and you need to apply this spiritual test.
Its the same one you give a denomination.

Its this.

Do they believe this, or not. ??????????????????

"The blood of Jesus that saved me, Keeps me saved".
"Jesus, who saved me, Keeps me saved".

So, just ask them, or just look at the denominations Handbook, their "creed".....etc.
If the church/denomination is built on LEGALISM, its the same as if the person's faith is built on it., and THAT is the "Anti-Christ" proof.

They = DO NOT BELIEVE that CHRIST = keeps them saved.

They instead will show you their SELF SAVING LIST.

Here are the top 4 "anti Christ" ... Heresies that teach that these keep you saved, and not Christ alone.

1. water baptism
2. commandment keeping
3. law
4. confessing sin


These people and these Cults will all agree that Christ saved them......began their salvation, but all CULTS and all HERETICS DO NOT BELIEVE That Christ KEEPS THEM Saved.
So. if He doesn't, who does?

So if Christ and His BLOOD and SACRIFICE does not keep you saved....WHO DOES ????

ahhhhh.

See that?....There is only one Anti-Christ Spirit answer..= "IM SAVING MYSELF,..im trying to keep myself saved with law, commandments, water, works, enduring, or joining a specific CHURCH....."

Reader....THAT is how you discern/discover a heretic or a CULT.

"Test that Spirit", and you have found "anti-Christ".
See, the anti-Christ Spirit is not just Christ rejection....its also the Spirit of LEGALISM.

The anti-Christ spirit in the "church" is the spirit that denies that Christ keeps you saved.
Find that person, or find that "church", and you have discerned that "SPIRIT".

That is the spirit of "anti-Christ"... Its Atheism or = Legalism.

While I agree with this post in principle, I'm a bit concerned regarding that list of 4 things that those who keep those things are being confused with doing that to ADD to their salvation vs doing those things BECAUSE of their salvation. Works NEVER saved anyone. But the issue is... whose works? That of yourself or the Spirit of God? If I do not "do" one of those 4 things, I don't fear a loss of salvation but... I do fear God reaming me out asking why I did not obey because He gave me his Spirit to do so? Thus, if we want to get into "rewards" theology, I'd have to say that those who knew to do good but did not will not get much. It will all be burnt up and he himself will be saved. And then since the purpose of the church is to rule and reign with Christ, the person may ask, "Well I'm saved do I get to rule anyway?" To which the Lord might answer, "Yes, over those 5 floor-sweeps in my Kingdom. You gave little so you rule little." Nevertheless, even that much is God's grace. At least they won't suffer the second death being destroyed in the lake of fire. Those who strived to learn about God, those who want to know the meaning behind his Torah, and as Sir Isaac Newton said, "to know the mind of God" are deemed worthy enough, not for salvation, but for the reward to rule, teach and reign the populations on this earth during the millennium. They did not despise the Law (Torah) of God, which is the Word of God, which is simply, Christ, God Himself (John 1:1).

 

[Behold]

I do fear God reaming me out

God will never "ream you out".
He has already allowed His Son to suffer all that.. for you.
Its the DEVIL who will "ream you out", unless you learn to discern his methods.

Here is the main one.

DECEPTION.

But there is another, that is similar.
When the devil has you marked for harm, he will always do one thing.
He will bring someone into your life that he sent for your destruction.
Not to kill you, but to ruin your life in a way that you can't repair by stopping whatever it is, or by being sorry that you did it.

What God will do, is allow you to be in a situation that targets an area in you, that is a carnal stronghold.
He will put a bullseye on that, and bring you into a situation that , once you have been through it, ... your stronghold is now broken.
Strongholds, are mental, and have to be rooted out.

So, how do you root out, a mental bondage? As that is a "stronghold".

God has 2 methods.

1.) The word of God convicts, informs, and enlightens you OUT of that bondage.

Thats why im here on this Forum.
Im bringing Light that is hot on a lot of people, and that is perfect as its in that heat, that spiritual bondage is burned out by REVELATiON.

2.) Hebrews 12:6

 

[liafailrock]

God will never "ream you out".
He has already allowed His Son to suffer all that.. for you.
Its the DEVIL that will "ream you out", unless you learn to discern his methods.

Here is the main one.

DECEPTION.

But there is another, that is similar.
When the devil has you marked for harm, he will always do one thing.
He will bring someone into your life that he sent for your destruction.
Not to kill you, but to ruin your life in a way that you can't repair by stopping whatever it is, or by being sorry that you did it.

What God will do, is allow you to be in a situation that targets an area in you, that is a carnal stronghold.
He will put a bullseye on that, and bring into a situation that , once you have been through it, ... your stronghold is now broken.
Strongholds, are mental, and have to be rooted out.

So, how do you root out, a mental bondage? As that is a "stronghold".

1.) The word of God convicts, informs, and enlightens you OUT of that bondage

2.) Hebrews 12:6

I agree... for sins. I'm talking about obedience. We are all to be at the judgment seat of Christ. There's a series of judgments. The church is first. What do you think that means? Since the church is saved, or being saved I should say, it's not about salvation. As a side note judgment is not the same as sentencing. For example, I believe there will be people saved at the Great White Throne Judgment who are experiencing their first chance at salvation after their resurrection. It's in the feasts of the Lord in Leviticus 23 applicable for all time.

 

[Behold]

I agree... for sins.

Jesus has taken care of your sin.
Read Romans 4:8.........That is Paul teaching you that God does not charge you with your sin, if you are born again.
Are you born again?......>Not water baptized thinking you are born again by water......


Also, God does not stomp on you out of a clear blue sky because you are not obedient.
Why?
Because, your disobedience will cause you to be hurt.....and that will stop you, eventually.

And what is the obedience that God requires?
Its this.."without FAITH it is impossible to please God".

See that? Notice it does not say, commandment keeping, and water baptism, and going to Church every Sunday"?

God mainly requires that you learn how to : "work out your salvation".
How do you do that?
You learn how to exist within it, with correct spiritual understanding, which is to have a renewed mind.

Baby believers<<......usually are worried about "gifts of the spirit", or, they are trying to be good enough for God to keep.
See those?
Those are proof of a non-renewed mind and a total lack of understanding of what it means to be real disciple of Jesus.

Here is how you are found as a terrible disciple of Jesus..
Let Him tell you....>He says....>"Apart from me you can do nothing"...

See the "do nothing"? That means what you are doing IS NOTHING>...its useless, its WASTED TIME...
= That is to "do nothing".........and most believers are exactly that......all the time..
How do you know?
Its because they are worried about NOTHING that matters., thinking they are walking the walk.

Let me show you an example of a "do nothing Christian".

They die.
They are now before Christ, who says..>"what did you do for me in my body...did you lead anyone to the Cross ? did you go on a mission trip and help build a church....Did you give to the poor.....did you take care of your family and teach your kids to KNOW that God is Real and that i died for them??....did you respond to people who are hurting who are all around you"...

The : "do nothing" responds......"no, but i talked in tongues a lot, and i was always trying to do that in Church to get attention".

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Legalism : is simply to try to keep yourself saved, or to try to save yourself.
Its a denial of the Cross of Christ as this... John 14:6

Legalim.. is the anti-Christ spirit.....as a religion.
It pretends to be Christian, while it denies the Cross of Christ as the ONLY REASON YOU GO TO HEAVEN.
Its a Christ Rejecting belief that what Christ accomplished on the Cross, is not ENOUGH to keep you saved....so, this "bewitched" person, as Paul describes them, will teach..."here is how you stay saved....you keep commandments, you confess all your sin, you trust in water, you join this particular church....you DO ALL THESE THINGS to try to keep yourself saved".

See that?
That's the anti Christ spirit , as it denies the finished work of Jesus on the Cross as the ONLY REASON God accepts you and keeps you.
The Legalist, generally, will agree that Christ is savior, then they deny it with ...."now, here is what YOU HAVE TO DO"..... "to STAY SAVED"

See that part?
That defines them as Anti-Cross, = Anti Christ.......yet, they will talk about "Christian stuff", till they drop dead.

The term legalism is not found in the Bible in the Greek or Hebrew, so you are defining the word as you choose to define it. There are many examples in the Bible of men obeying God in order to receive God's free gift yet their obedience is never termed "legalism". To refer to obedience to God's will as legalism is no different than some here on this forum who are trying to define obedience to God as a work of merit.

The Bible clearly shows Christ does not save men UNconditionally but saves those who conditionally obey Him, Hebrews 5:9 therefore man does have a role in his own salvation. For the Christian to be saved and remain save the Christian must "keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 1:21), "examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith"; (2 Corinthians 13:5), "give diligence to make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10) etc, are all required obedience for a Christian to remain saved and is not "legalism" as YOU call it. Therefore one must trust in Christ to save but since Christ requires obedience that makes obedience necessary to salvation. Christ will not save a Christian regardless of how the Christian lives.

 

[Behold]

The term legalism is not found in the Bible

The name T-Rex is also not found in the bible.

The name 'Paul McCartney", is not found in a Greek Text

Now.....Let me show you your verse.

Paul says to prove (examine yourself) that you are in THE Faith... "THE"
JUDE says.>"contend for the REAL Faith".

Notice...>"THE"..."REAL".

See those?.....That is one thing...>"Christ on the Cross, saves me and keeps me saved".

There is your THE REAL faith. John 14:6

Reader....Do you believe you can lose your salvation?..Then you are not in "THE REAL" Faith.
You are a heretic......define by Paul as one who is "bewitched", and proven by your LEGALISM that you believe and teach.

 

[liafailrock]

Jesus has taken care of your sin.
Read Romans 4:8.........That is Paul teaching you that God does not charge you with your sin, if you are born again.
Are you born again?......>Not water baptized thinking you are born again by water......


Also, God does not stomp on you out of a clear blue sky because you are not obedient.
Why?
Because, your disobedience will cause you to be hurt.....and that will stop you, eventually.

And what is the obedience that God requires?
Its this.."without FAITH it is impossible to please God".

See that? Notice it does not say, commandment keeping, and water baptism, and going to Church every Sunday"?

God mainly requires that you learn how to : "work out your salvation".
How do you do that?
You learn how to exist within it, with correct spiritual understanding, which is to have a renewed mind.

Baby believers<<......usually are worried about "gifts of the spirit", or, they are trying to be good enough for God to keep.
See those?
Those are proof of a non-renewed mind and a total lack of understanding of what it means to be real disciple of Jesus.

Here is how you are found as a terrible disciple of Jesus..
Let Him tell you....>He says....>"Apart from me you can do nothing"...

See the "do nothing"? That means what you are doing IS NOTHING>...its useless, its WASTED TIME...
= That is to "do nothing".........and most believers are exactly that......all the time..
How do you know?
Its because they are worried about NOTHING that matters., thinking they are walking the walk.

Let me show you an example of a "do nothing Christian".

They die.
They are now before Christ, who says..>"what did you do for me in my body...did you lead anyone to the Cross ? did you go on a mission trip and help build a church....Did you give to the poor.....did you take care of your family and teach your kids to KNOW that God is Real and that i died for them??....did you respond to people who are hurting who are all around you"...

The : "do nothing" responds......"no, but i talked in tongues a lot, and i was always trying to do that in Church to get attention".

It seems we are talking past each other. I don't fundamentally disagree with you. I understand you are talking about those who rather speak in tongues than doing pragmatic things such as witnessing, even to family. And I agree. But those who (truly) have obedience to the Law do those things that you mention. That was Jesus' point -- those who thought they followed the Law did not. All I'm saying is don't confuse those who DO those 4 things in the list you mentioned with those who do all sorts of spiritual things such as speaking in tongues, doing great "spiritual" signs or otherwise look holy while neglecting what Jesus said to really do. And here the sun is setting, so Shabbat Shalom.

 

[Behold]

don't confuse those who DO those 4 things in the list you mentioned with those who do all sorts of spiritual things such as speaking in tongues, doing great "spiritual" signs or otherwise look holy while neglecting what Jesus said to really do. And here the sun is setting, so Shabbat Shalom.

Its 10:5Op in Netanya......so yes, its getting late.

and bringing the Thread now, into focus..

Paul teaches that there is "another Gospel", and its cursed of God. Galatians 1:8
So, what does that make the person, who is teaching it?

What is that "another gospel".

1. Water
2. Works
3. Commandment keeping
4. Law keeping
5. enduring to the end


all these are just SELF EFFORT in place of Faith in Christ.....which is Legalsim.
Legalism is : a Christ rejecting Spirit, and its a religious deception., that sounds TRUE.


-Shabbat Shalom

 

[liafailrock]

Its 10:5Op in Netanya......so yes, its getting late.

and bringing the Thread now, into focus..

Paul teaches that there is "another Gospel", and its cursed of God. Galatians 1:8
So, what does that make the person, who is teaching it?

What is that "another gospel".

1. Water
2. Works
3. Commandment keeping
4. Law keeping
5. enduring to the end


all these are just SELF EFFORT in place of Faith in Christ.....which is Legalsim.
Legalism is : a Christ rejecting Spirit, and its a religious deception., that sounds TRUE.


-Shabbat Shalom

You keep circling back to the list as a means of salvation. I never said that. But those who are saved will tend to practice those things... not for salvation but for obedience. Let me make an analogy. Flashing signal lights at a train crossing don't kill you. The train does. So, what you are saying is that signal lights don't matter? Sure they do. If a train comes, then the signal lights will go on and we stop. But stopping for the signal lights is not what saves us, but rather stopping for the train. The signal lights are an indication as works is an indication. If a person does not keep good works, it does not mean they are not saved. But a saved person will tend to keep good works because the Spirit of God in which those who believe allow to work in their lives. You seem bent on saying that just because a person does so, that they are in error. They MAY be if they think it saves them. But then again, they may do that to please the Lord. That's all I'm saying and there's no error in that.

 

[liafailrock]

And I say, should I sin that grace may abound? No, but rather I uphold the Law.