The Bible is more a record of those who "know", than those who "believe."

[eugenelester]

The term "believers" has become the common assumed position of those who come to, and follow, God and Christ. However, at the core of the believing community, are those who do not believe by faith at all, but "know" without a shadow of doubt, the truth of God and Christ because of "first hand" or "eye witness" experience. I am such a one...and those who seek to know God should, and can, be assured that our faith and yours, is not based in some feel-good notion of hope that good will prevail. No, in fact, the main characters of the Bible are those who "know", rather than merely believe, and have had a personal encounter with almighty God. In this, indeed, we may have faith.

In the matter of faith and knowledge of God, our views largely coincide. And my experience of finding like-minded people suggests that this is a rarity. It's so hard for me to prove that knowledge and reason are no less important than belief. Moreover, faith must be reasonable. And not stupid faith, in the likeness of pagan superstition. The problem of modern Christians is that they stopped using the mind of Christ given to them. Therefore, secularization has such success. That there is only a church flying a pasta monster - this is a direct counterargument to the stupid faith of many Christians. I do not want to offend Christians who truly believe. But I draw attention to the fact that faith must be reasonable!

 

[ScottA]

In the matter of faith and knowledge of God, our views largely coincide. And my experience of finding like-minded people suggests that this is a rarity. It's so hard for me to prove that knowledge and reason are no less important than belief. Moreover, faith must be reasonable. And not stupid faith, in the likeness of pagan superstition. The problem of modern Christians is that they stopped using the mind of Christ given to them. Therefore, secularization has such success. That there is only a church flying a pasta monster - this is a direct counterargument to the stupid faith of many Christians. I do not want to offend Christians who truly believe. But I draw attention to the fact that faith must be reasonable!

Indeed. We as Christians do not have faith in faith. But if we have faith, we have faith in the sure knowledge of God, not believed only, but revealed to many witnesses: As God is my witness.

 

[Glen55]

All this chatter goes to show the mind along with its side kick ego are the only enemy we have, its rules over the innerman that has no need to be right in a time based world where all are born and die , until we can learn to stop letting them speak through us the truth of our origin is hidden within the temple, all outward searching based in time is a vapor.

 

[ScottA]

All this chatter goes to show the mind along with its side kick ego are the only enemy we have, its rules over the innerman that has no need to be right in a time based world where all are born and die , until we can learn to stop letting them speak through us the truth of our origin is hidden within the temple, all outward searching based in time is a vapor.

This is good. What "Other Faith" leads you to believe this?

 

[lforrest]

This is good. What "Other Faith" leads you to believe this?

Oh finally figured out what you mean. His profile says "other faith."

 

[pia]

The term "believers" has become the common assumed position of those who come to, and follow, God and Christ. However, at the core of the believing community, are those who do not believe by faith at all, but "know" without a shadow of doubt, the truth of God and Christ because of "first hand" or "eye witness" experience. I am such a one...and those who seek to know God should, and can, be assured that our faith and yours, is not based in some feel-good notion of hope that good will prevail. No, in fact, the main characters of the Bible are those who "know", rather than merely believe, and have had a personal encounter with almighty God. In this, indeed, we may have faith.

Amen ! Praise His holy name forever more and Glory to our God Almighty for His Love, patience, faithfulness and every other beautiful gift He has given unto us, but also the way He opened the door through our Lord, so that we could not just be known by Him, but also get to KNOW Him...........

 

[101G]

Essentially, there is a difference between "believing" and "knowing." Jesus referred to this difference when he addressed [doubting] Thomas, saying: “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” The Christian community has adopted the term "believer", possibly leading non-believing seekers to think that is all there is - that no one really "knows." My point is to say for certain that, that simply isn't true...that the core of Christianity is not merely based on faith in something that no one can actually know, therefore making Christianity no different than a thousand other would-be religious pursuits. Because of the common use of the term "believer", the fact that we know what we know for a fact, is obscured and rarely stated.

GINOLJC, to all. haven't read all of the responses, but I'm like our brother the apostle Paul. as christians we need to get pass this "I believe" and "I Know". for, 1 Corinthians 13:11 & 12 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known".

there are two words that the Child of God needs to know and understand. a. "Relationship" and b. "Fellowship". we as christian, and not as children, should be now mature enough in our knowledge, and belief to be in a perfect "Relationship" with our Father, and enjoy the "Fellowship" in him, (Nick, you can't go back in the womb. John 3:1-4). if one KNOW that they are born again they HAVE an unbroken Relationship with their Father, (Romans 8:38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". "KNOWING" that and "BELIEVING" this, that nothing can separate us from the love of God, then One can "Enjoy" that perfect "FELLOWSHIP" with him in Christ Jesus. My Relationship and fellowship with the Father in Christ Jesus gives me the confidence to "know" God, and to "believe" God, WHY? because I live it every day by Faith. scripture, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith". his faith is the RECORD I LIVE BY.

be blessed.

 

[ScottA]

GINOLJC, to all. haven't read all of the responses, but I'm like our brother the apostle Paul. as christians we need to get pass this "I believe" and "I Know". for, 1 Corinthians 13:11 & 12 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known".

there are two words that the Child of God needs to know and understand. a. "Relationship" and b. "Fellowship". we as christian, and not as children, should be now mature enough in our knowledge, and belief to be in a perfect "Relationship" with our Father, and enjoy the "Fellowship" in him, (Nick, you can't go back in the womb. John 3:1-4). if one KNOW that they are born again they HAVE an unbroken Relationship with their Father, (Romans 8:38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". "KNOWING" that and "BELIEVING" this, that nothing can separate us from the love of God, then One can "Enjoy" that perfect "FELLOWSHIP" with him in Christ Jesus. My Relationship and fellowship with the Father in Christ Jesus gives me the confidence to "know" God, and to "believe" God, WHY? because I live it every day by Faith. scripture, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith". his faith is the RECORD I LIVE BY.

be blessed.

Thank you. This is as the belief of which Lord Jesus spoke, a testimony of believing without seeing, with confidence that grows into a knowing relationship...and rightly so, for, just as He promised, He has not left us, but is with us.

But, that you should know that your faith is not in vain by the mouth of eyewitnesses, we who have seen and know and therefore do not rely on faith alone, also give our factual testimony. This is the evidence of ongoing witness accounts that has established His word down through all of recorded history, that those who have not seen God might know of Him by the mouth of two or three witnesses, of which I am one.

 

[101G]

Thank you. This is as the belief of which Lord Jesus spoke, a testimony of believing without seeing, with confidence that grows into a knowing relationship...and rightly so, for, just as He promised, He has not left us, but is with us.

But, that you should know that your faith is not in vain by the mouth of eyewitnesses, we who have seen and know and therefore do not rely on faith alone, also give our factual testimony. This is the evidence of ongoing witness accounts that has established His word down through all of recorded history, that those who have not seen God might know of Him by the mouth of two or three witnesses, of which I am one.

correct, I also am a witness. for the save are known by their "FRUIT". Luke 13:8 "And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:Luke 13:9 "And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down". John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit".

be blessed.

 

[Helen]

there are two words that the Child of God needs to know and understand. a. "Relationship" and b. "Fellowship". we as christian, and not as children, should be now mature enough in our knowledge, and belief to be in a perfect "Relationship" with our Father, and enjoy the "Fellowship" in him, (Nick, you can't go back in the womb. John 3:1-4). if one KNOW that they are born again they HAVE an unbroken Relationship with their Father, (Romans 8:38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". "KNOWING" that and "BELIEVING" this, that nothing can separate us from the love of God, then One can "Enjoy" that perfect "FELLOWSHIP" with him in Christ Jesus. My Relationship and fellowship with the Father in Christ Jesus gives me the confidence to "know" God, and to "believe" God, WHY? because I live it every day by Faith. scripture, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith".

Praise God for this thread.
I woke up this morning feeling so 'heavy' because so many people keep on saying..
"Show me the scripture for that." , " Prove this or prove that."
When we first come to the Lord we devour the bible..we still read it 55+ years later...but we do NOT have a relationship with it!!
The bible is not a substitute for God Himself!!
With some people's- "prove this or prove that"...it seems that many do not know what is contained within the bible...it has not yet become a part OF them...it is not "written in their hearts and in their minds."
Their "leaning" is upon the bible itself...not on The Spirit of God Himself, who can, and does actually speak TODAY to our hearts !!

God did not JUST speak "back then" in the bible,but we have a living relationship , now, today!!!! Those that have this revelation know that we are today very on speaking terms with God Himself!
Sadly it seems the some are only "on speaking terms" with their bibles!! Ouch!

This, that I have written here caused me to actually cry early this morning when I first woke up. It is so sad.

Like the children of Israel...we feed daily on the Manna from heaven. Which could NOT be gathered and canned for next week...but gathered fresh every day.
The bible is wonderful...I love it...I can feed on it any time...but that is not the same as "today's fresh Manna".

We are so used to substitutes in our life:-
We have margarine because butter has bad cholesterol.
We have sugar substitutes because sugar is fattening.
We make substitutes for chocolate because cocoa beans are expensive.
But in reality, the substitute is never as good as the real thing.
They may be close, but it’s just not the same.
God called us and made man for RELATIONSHIP.
He walked with Adam in the cool of the Garden.
He talked to Abraham "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. " David the man after God own heart..had a living, vital relationship with the God Himself. He knew how to abide in the secret Place of the Most High. And abide under the Shadow of The Almighty.

God wants us as friends...yet so many, (unknowingly) are rejecting His "today" friendship , and are choosing to substitute their bible in the place of a real, precious, relationship.

My last thought is that, maybe these people who demand 'bible proof' ( rather than knowing) about everything that some of us say or have experienced...are afraid ? So afraid of deception, so afraid of some devil speaking to them, that they actually cannot hear from God themselves!! Maybe so.
That again is very very sad...because it means that " My sheep know My voice.." is not their experience...therefore they do not have a living hearing relationship with God..but only one with the printed word. I wish their was a weeping , crying icon on here...I have found my own.

 

[pia]

@ByGrace........What a wonderful post ! Know exactly where you are coming from, I used to cry literal buckets at the beginning, when I first thought people would be happy and amazed ( as I was ) to hear about the reality of Jesus in this world....Some people in my past suggested that I treated Him in a less than Holy manner, but I didn't know any different, I had no clue at that time that He was that real, nor that He could talk to people and reveal Himself to people.
I never stopped really, treating Him like my very best friend EVER or like a bigger very protective Brother, and since He doesn't seem to mind, why should I ?
I do think you are so right...It is because of fear people keep their distance, and / or fear of not 'performing' to Gods satisfaction, so they study themselves blue in the face, in order to be 'approved' of by God and Jesus ( been there, done that, once I got a Bible ).
If only they would ask for the revelation of how they are approved of by God because they BELIEVE in His Son !
A lot of people truly believe that God only created mankind to have someone to worship Him and praise Him. If that was the case He wouldn't have bothered, as He could have made millions of 'puppets' to do that, also I do believe He has a whole congregation of Angels and Elders doing that already....I am NOT suggesting that we shouldn't worship and praise Him, that just happens automatically once we realize who He is.....I believe you put it best by saying that our Father wants relationships, friends, loving children ( sorry extrapolated a little there ) and that we shouldn't substitute God with a book about God, if that were even possible.
Wonderful post....Great to wake up to !
Praise His Holy Name and bless you H...............

 

[amadeus]

@pia

God has richly blessed dear sister. Stand fast with Him to the end of your course.

 

[pia]

@pia

God has richly blessed dear sister. Stand fast with Him to the end of your course.

I sure think so and I will be grateful to Him for the rest of eternity. I WILL stand, because He makes it possible, not because I can do that in myself. Thanks so much 'amadeus'....How is your wife doing by the way? Hope she is still going strong in her recovery...
Glory to the Most High !

 

[amadeus]

I sure think so and I will be grateful to Him for the rest of eternity. I WILL stand, because He makes it possible, not because I can do that in myself. Thanks so much 'amadeus'....How is your wife doing by the way? Hope she is still going strong in her recovery...
Glory to the Most High !

Actually, while she is doing well on the recovery from surgery, she now apparently has some other kind of infection. Her immune system was compromised some years ago by prescribed steroids taken to control her asthma. The asthma is under control now, but she easily gets almost any infection she is exposed to... Please keep her in prayer.

 

[Helen]

@amadeus oh dear John...so sorry to hear about Kathy's set back....the devil does not give up....but neither do we ...we are praying with you. x

 

[pia]

Actually, while she is doing well on the recovery from surgery, she now apparently has some other kind of infection. Her immune system was compromised some years ago by prescribed steroids taken to control her asthma. The asthma is under control now, but she easily gets almost any infection she is exposed to... Please keep her in prayer.

I sure will. I am saddened by this, we ought not be in this position, none of us....Please give her my love .

 

[mjrhealth]

@"ByGrace" Amen You really have come a long way

 

[amadeus]

I sure will. I am saddened by this, we ought not be in this position, none of us....Please give her my love .

I certainly will, dear sister. We do serve a wondrous God.

 

[Helen]

those who seek to know God should, and can, be assured that our faith and yours, is not based in some feel-good notion of hope that good will prevail. No, in fact, the main characters of the Bible are those who "know", rather than merely believe, and have had a personal encounter with almighty God. In this, indeed, we may have faith.

We know that this "knowing" is all about relationship.
People can read, learn, and quote the bible....but that is not a living relationship , not the knowing of Him, To the place where the written word is then a very part of us.

Myself, I see this much like the tabernacle pattern. Hebrews 8:5 " as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: 'for, See, saith He, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount."
and Ex 25:40 "And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount."

So for me, I see the Outer Court , the Brazen Altar = the place of sacrifice= As us SEEING the truth of the Cross and full sacrifice of Jesus.

The Holy Place , shewbread, Candlestick = KNOWING the truth of the things of The Holy Spirit.

And the Holy of Holies , Ark, Mercy Seat= Face to face RELATIONSHIP.
Fellowship with the Most High.

.

 

[ScottA]

We know that this "knowing" is all about relationship.
People can read, learn, and quote the bible....but that is not a living relationship , not the knowing of Him, To the place where the written word is then a very part of us.

Myself, I see this much like the tabernacle pattern. Hebrews 8:5 " as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: 'for, See, saith He, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount."
and Ex 25:40 "And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount."

So for me, I see the Outer Court , the Brazen Altar = the place of sacrifice= As us SEEING the truth of the Cross and full sacrifice of Jesus.

The Holy Place , shewbread, Candlestick = KNOWING the truth of the things of The Holy Spirit.

And the Holy of Holies , Ark, Mercy Seat= Face to face RELATIONSHIP.
Fellowship with the Most High.

.

All things point to us "knowing" God in spirit, for He is spirit.

Likewise, our relationship with Christ is not complete until we "see Him as He is", which again, is spirit.

Therefore, if we do not lay down our life in the flesh as He did (as completely given to God), then we cannot be raised up with Him to be born again of the spirit of God. This is how we "know" Him. And to those who do not, He will say, "I never knew you."

We are born of flesh, but we must become spirit, just as God is spirit.