The Bible is more a record of those who "know", than those who "believe."

[pia]

I certainly will, dear sister. We do serve a wondrous God.

We do indeed dear Sir

 

[Glen55]

This is good. What "Other Faith" leads you to believe this?

Mostly from being involved in the christian faith, after years of wearing that veil the truth of Luke 17:20-21 started to tear the historic veil of traditional dogma based in time and fear with a futuristic focus instead of the eternal NOW. Bill Donahue, Mike Nevins, Alvin Boyd kuhn, Gerald Massey, Neville Goddard, Moji, etc........helped wake the dead prodigal stuck in times realm of good and evil where our mind is God/Ego.

 

[lforrest]

Mostly from being involved in the christian faith, after years of wearing that veil the truth of Luke 17:20-21 started to tear the historic veil of traditional dogma based in time and fear with a futuristic focus instead of the eternal NOW. Bill Donahue, Mike Nevins, Alvin Boyd kuhn, Gerald Massey, Neville Goddard, Moji, etc........helped wake the dead prodigal stuck in times realm of good and evil where our mind is God/Ego.

Disillusioned Christian would be a better title then, but it's a bit long.

I don't think a proper understanding of heaven is essential, as it isn't our meager intelligence God wants.

 

[ScottA]

Mostly from being involved in the christian faith, after years of wearing that veil the truth of Luke 17:20-21 started to tear the historic veil of traditional dogma based in time and fear with a futuristic focus instead of the eternal NOW. Bill Donahue, Mike Nevins, Alvin Boyd kuhn, Gerald Massey, Neville Goddard, Moji, etc........helped wake the dead prodigal stuck in times realm of good and evil where our mind is God/Ego.

Your answer seems conflicted: First you quote biblical scripture as if for it, then seem to divorce yourself from it as if against it.

What is it that you believe? Is there a name for your faith, that we might look into a more complete definition?

 

[Glen55]

I just imagine people looking in on Christians from the outside, thinking...How nice, they all "believe" in a god that can't be seen! When the reality is, many do believe, but many do not need to venture belief...because they/we "know" for certain. God is not a "belief", he's a fact.

Most base their belief on, and by appearances from partaking of the fruit of good and evil

Your answer seems conflicted: First you quote biblical scripture as if for it, then seem to divorce yourself from it as if against it.

What is it that you believe? Is there a name for your faith, that we might look into a more complete definition?

I posted that in a rush, My main point would follow the message being all things to all people, being a westerner the sarcasm comes out without really meaning to sound brash, these debates forums exist on judging by appearance which is based on a facade/persona we all use as a shield, I see the traditional views as foundation truth that follows the flesh in its limited capacity to digest the implications behind the Dark saying hidden under the dead letters Christ, nothing wrong with it but like you know those encounters with the Christ within reveals more and more that the scripture isn't secular history but Divine history that happens in the kingdom of God said to be in man, labels divide Christ bridges all people, perfect love drives out the fear dogma that feeds on good and evil.

 

[ScottA]

Most base their belief on, and by appearances from partaking of the fruit of good and evil

I posted that in a rush, My main point would follow the message being all things to all people, being a westerner the sarcasm comes out without really meaning to sound brash, these debates forums exist on judging by appearance which is based on a facade/persona we all use as a shield, I see the traditional views as foundation truth that follows the flesh in its limited capacity to digest the implications behind the Dark saying hidden under the dead letters Christ, nothing wrong with it but like you know those encounters with the Christ within reveals more and more that the scripture isn't secular history but Divine history that happens in the kingdom of God said to be in man, labels divide Christ bridges all people, perfect love drives out the fear dogma that feeds on good and evil.

You bounced around so as to make it hard to follow. Which, of course, is not unlike the word of God at first glance. I give you that. But there is a simple and clear way of God, and it is not dispersed among other faiths, but rather one ribbon of truth according to Him alone, down through all the ages since the beginning of time.

As such, there is no "now", but rather what is written of all that "is", according to "I am." The world as we experience it is the written record of His story. History is His story (God's). This is media, and we are characters giving our lines on a timeline which has no actual time, but is rather the story line of an eternal and timeless truth. The entire story happened in the "twinkling of an eye" in the timeless realm of God the creator of all things. Like eternal bookends, Christ is the Beginning and the End.

 

[Marymog]

The term "believers" has become the common assumed position of those who come to, and follow, God and Christ. However, at the core of the believing community, are those who do not believe by faith at all, but "know" without a shadow of doubt, the truth of God and Christ because of "first hand" or "eye witness" experience. I am such a one...and those who seek to know God should, and can, be assured that our faith and yours, is not based in some feel-good notion of hope that good will prevail. No, in fact, the main characters of the Bible are those who "know", rather than merely believe, and have had a personal encounter with almighty God. In this, indeed, we may have faith.

Hi Scott,

Love your post. I get the gist of what you are saying. I am curious though: Since I am only a believer by faith and you are a believer because of your personal encounter is there a difference between us?

Curious Mary

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott,

Love your post. I get the gist of what you are saying. I am curious though: Since I am only a believer by faith and you are a believer because of your personal encounter is there a difference between us?

Curious Mary

No...but it is those who exercise faith that are all the more esteemed by God.

The faithful who do the will of God, will hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord."

But those who "know" and do the will of God have entered already. But one who "knows" the will of God but does not do it, shall be cast into the fire.

 

[Marymog]

No...but it is those who exercise faith that are all the more esteemed by God.
The faithful who do the will of God, will hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord."
But those who "know" and do the will of God have entered already. But one who "knows" the will of God but does not do it, shall be cast into the fire.

Hi,

Since there is no difference between your faith and my faith, what was the purpose of your original post?

Did you just want everyone to know that you have had a personal encounter with God?

Did you just want to reassure those of us that only have faith that our faith is valid because you and others have had a personal encounter with Him? Is your testimony meant to uplift those of us who have not had that personal encounter?

I'm confused with your intent.

Mary

 

[Helen]

I didn't even know that this thread was here...it has totally gone over my head...no idea why I didn't see it in New Posts. I am late to the party..and had to go back to page #1 ( which is this quote of Scott's)

The Christian community has adopted the term "believer", possibly leading non-believing seekers to think that is all there is - that no one really "knows."

I'm glad that you wrote "possibly"...for I don't think I agree.
But I do think "believer" is somewhat weak...that is why I use- " Believing-believer" = belief continually in action. I don't just believe that ice cream tastes good, I have tasted and I know it tastes good! And I am continually daily tasting.

'Christian' is a word that many of us have distanced ourseves from..anyone and 'everyone' claims to be a christian if it suits their purposes...and many do.

...that the core of Christianity is not merely based on faith in something that no one can actually know, therefore making Christianity no different than a thousand other would-be religious pursuits.
Because of the common use of the term "believer", the fact that we know what we know for a fact, is obscured and rarely stated.

Very true...but when we do speak out and claim that we know...then the undercutting starts..with -" no one can possibly know" Or "You hope".
Some cannot grasp that we do indeed know. We in fact know many things!
I know for sure that I am married to my husband and we do actually really talk to each other every day.
Just so, we know our relationship with God, and we know His voice daily.

I do think that there are two levels of believers.
One can only believe if seeing.. while the other is- believed through the hearing of the ear, and then of seeing by the Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Hi,

Since there is no difference between your faith and my faith, what was the purpose of your original post?

Did you just want everyone to know that you have had a personal encounter with God?

Did you just want to reassure those of us that only have faith that our faith is valid because you and others have had a personal encounter with Him? Is your testimony meant to uplift those of us who have not had that personal encounter?

I'm confused with your intent.

Mary

It is the latter.

The faith of a Christian is rooted in established truth. People who have not had confirmation can rest assured that their faith is not in vain, that they are not gambling on whether or not their faith will prove to be the truth.

 

[Helen]

Indeed. We as Christians do not have faith in faith. But if we have faith, we have faith in the sure knowledge of God, not believed only, but revealed to many witnesses: As God is my witness.

Love that...just bumping it for that reason

 

[ScottA]

I didn't even know that this thread was here...it has totally gone over my head...no idea why I didn't see it in New Posts. I am late to the party..and had to go back to page #1 ( which is this quote of Scott's)


I'm glad that you wrote "possibly"...for I don't think I agree.
But I do think "believer" is somewhat weak...that is why I use- " Believing-believer" = belief continually in action. I don't just believe that ice cream tastes good, I have tasted and I know it tastes good! And I am continually daily tasting.

'Christian' is a word that many of us have distanced ourseves from..anyone and 'everyone' claims to be a christian if it suits their purposes...and many do.


Very true...but when we do speak out and claim that we know...then the undercutting starts..with -" no one can possibly know" Or "You hope".
Some cannot grasp that we do indeed know. We in fact know many things!
I know for sure that I am married to my husband and we do actually really talk to each other every day.
Just so, we know our relationship with God, and we know His voice daily.

I do think that there are two levels of believers.
One can only believe if seeing.. while the other is- believed through the hearing of the ear, and then of seeing by the Spirit.

Yeah, I think it is most important for seekers and new believers to understand this. Otherwise it's just like shopping for what sounds good. Christians, in time, do get to "know" also, even if they first begin in faith...that faith is rewarded with knowledge from God.

 

[ScottA]

Love that...just bumping it for that reason

Good - I can't get the thought of ice cream out of my mind. I am convinced that manna was ice cream - pure heaven!

 

[Dcopymope]

So "knowing" God has been elevated above having faith in God, and separated entirely as different from one another. So I'm assuming those who claim to "know God" are saying this because they have had an epiphany of some sort, perhaps similar to Paul, and this somehow makes them special. Since you experienced his actual presence in the spirit, then how much do you know about this guy from heaven anyway? Do you "know God" better than Satan? After all, he has seen God with his two eyes and conversed with him directly in heaven, bodily. What is the difference between you "knowing God" and Satan "knowing God"? What is the difference between someone "believing in God" and a demon "believing in God"? This particular demon seemed to have recognized who Jesus really was right away, as if he knew him.

(Luke 4:33-34) "¶ And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, {34} Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

 

[ScottA]

So "knowing" God has been elevated above having faith in God, and separated entirely as different from one another. So I'm assuming those who claim to "know God" are saying this because they have had an epiphany of some sort, perhaps similar to Paul, and this somehow makes them special. Since you experienced his actual presence in the spirit, then how much do you know about this guy from heaven anyway? Do you "know God" better than Satan? After all, he has seen God with his two eyes and conversed with him directly in heaven, bodily. What is the difference between you "knowing God" and Satan "knowing God"? What is the difference between someone "believing in God" and a demon "believing in God"?

That "difference" is everything. It all depends on who one serves.

The worst day of knowing God as Lord, is better than the best day of knowing God as an enemy.

 

[Dcopymope]

That "difference" is everything. It all depends on who one serves.

The worst day of knowing God as Lord, is better than the best day of knowing God as an enemy.

That still doesn't explain how you "knowing God" is any different than someone "believing" in God. The demons know God as Lord as well, so it doesn't prove anything. Are you saying that a believer cannot know that God is NOT his enemy because he doesn't "know God"? Whats the deal here?

 

[Helen]

So "knowing" God has been elevated above having faith in God, and separated entirely as different from one another.

No way, cannot be separated.
But why such a harsh post?

So I'm assuming those who claim to "know God" are saying this because they have had an epiphany of some sort, perhaps similar to Paul, and this somehow makes them special.

Why assume? Did not all believers "have an epiphany" on the day and hour that they first believed?
Didn't you? How are you a believer if you didn't hear His voice calling and His love revealed to you?

Just interested. Thanks.

 

[Dcopymope]

No way, cannot be separated.
But why such a harsh post?



Why assume? Did not all believers "have an epiphany" on the day and hour that they first believed?
Didn't you? How are you a believer if you didn't hear His voice calling and His love revealed to you?

Just interested. Thanks.

Separating the "believer" from the "knower's" is exactly what ScottA has done, elevating himself above all others who just "believe", because God apparently appeared before him. I don't recall Paul elevating himself and separating himself from the believer, from the other apostles just because Jesus Christ directly had a word or two with him. That is what this thread is about however.

 

[Helen]

That still doesn't explain how you "knowing God" is any different than someone "believing" in God. The demons know God as Lord as well, so it doesn't prove anything. Are you saying that a believer cannot know that God is NOT his enemy because he doesn't "know God"? Whats the deal here?

I know I am jumping to this thread etc...
I see a great difference between believing what has been told to us about someone/God. And knowing Him. Paul speaks about "going on to know the Lord. Believing can very easily , and often is , a standing still ( or sitting still...) and kinds coasting into heaven...or we can "Go on to know Him.."
= no long passive. That is how I see it.
Paul was already a believer, yet he said " That I may know Him...." He saw and taught the difference.
I don't believe demons do know the Lord....they know who He is, but they do not know in the knowing way..the way Adam knew Eve..and how the relationship we have with God as The Bride = to come into perfect union ...if we indeed press on to know Him and the power of His resurrection...