The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

[Hillsage]

I checked a few of those bibles that I could find. They still say "unquenchable fire". I checked Mark 9:43 in them.

Unquenchable fire simply means you can't put it out until it finishes burning up what needs to be destroyed.

JUD 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Would you please point me to those two towns which are burning in UNQUENCHABLE ETERNAL FIRE?

 

[Cyd]

1) What's your definition of hell?
2) How do you see the final judgment playing out?
3) Will everyone be saved in the end?
4) Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

1} while living it is the world (James 4:4) at death it is a place of darkness, with a door you can't get out till judgement day.
2} Flashing neon red signs above the Lords head with certain scriptures saying It is written... for a picture it is much like Messiah did with writing in the sand with the woman caught in adultery. God's words written flashing... you did not do Follow Me. (Mt 22:37-40)(Is 43:11) plus a few others
3) NO but there will be no memory for those.
4) We are told to love them because we are all evil..therefore to me evil=devils=every human.

 

[Freedm]

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife.
As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur.
Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you)

- What's your definition of hell?
- How do you see the final judgment playing out?
- Will everyone be saved in the end?
- Will the Lord who taught us to love our enemies incinerate his?

This video presents three views. Which view do you resonate with?

- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Universalism

/

Jesus said if we believe in him, we would have everlasting life, and the wages of sin is death. So you either live or die. This alone proves that there is no such thing as eternal torment in hell, because in order to be tormented you have to be alive. If this doctrine were true, we would all have eternal life, both the righteous and the wicked, the only difference being the righteous would have a good life, and the wicked a terrible life, but this is not what Jesus taught us. He taught us that we would either live or die.

 

[marks]

Jesus said if we believe in him, we would have everlasting life, and the wages of sin is death. So you either live or die. This alone proves that there is no such thing as eternal torment in hell, because in order to be tormented you have to be alive. If this doctrine were true, we would all have eternal life, both the righteous and the wicked, the only difference being the righteous would have a good life, and the wicked a terrible life, but this is not what Jesus taught us. He taught us that we would either live or die.

However, people tend to define life and death according to perceptions of activity and awareness. The Bible uses "death" a little differently.

People whom we would consider "alive" the Bible calls "dead". There's more to it than just simple English word, and our customary use.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

1} while living it is the world (James 4:4) at death it is a place of darkness, with a door you can't get out till judgement day.
2} Flashing neon red signs above the Lords head with certain scriptures saying It is written... for a picture it is much like Messiah did with writing in the sand with the woman caught in adultery. God's words written flashing... you did not do Follow Me. (Mt 22:37-40)(Is 43:11) plus a few others
3) NO but there will be no memory for those.
4) We are told to love them because we are all evil..therefore to me evil=devils=every human.

Thanks for weighing in on this topic.
And welcome to the forum.

Are you familiar with Christian Universalism? (UR)

/

 

[Cyd]

Thanks for weighing in on this topic.
And welcome to the forum.

Are you familiar with Christian Universalism? (UR)

Thank you and No never heard of it I did look it up and see they think all will be restored to Father. I don't know any person that thinks the way I do on things hahaha Just me and the Lord and my questioning Him where I end up in my beliefs. However, I blame it on the Lord as He shows me in scriptures answering my questions.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thank you and No never heard of it I did look it up and see they think all will be restored to Father. I don't know any person that thinks the way I do on things hahaha Just me and the Lord and my questioning Him where I end up in my beliefs. However, I blame it on the Lord as He shows me in scriptures answering my questions.

Here's a topic that outlines the history of Apokatastasis in the early church.

Apokatastasis in the early church

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism, Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Redemption, UR... There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so...

www.christianityboard.com

/

 

[Cyd]

Here's a topic that outlines the history of Apokatastasis in the early church.

Thanks for the link SteVen but just me seeing what I saw made me not really want to look into it. You would certainly have no fear of the Lord with that outlook to me and I fear the Lord. I have already asked the Lord on such things... because I saw out of His mouth He said He created evil Is 45:7 and all souls are His Ez 18:4 when I saw that, I asked Father then why shouldn't I love evil if you created evil? Father answered giving me a word or two I look up and it appears Father wants good not evil to me. Jer 29:11 so I looked up the meaning of peace went wow. So to me Father has chosen the good not evil. I also believe the book of Revelations and think the full book should be in red.. because John was told by God to write it down.. that to me is like a thus saith the Lord... so Rev 21:8 anyway I was given a lot more but this just for some explaination for you. I ask Father things... He answers with out of His mouth from the word of God.

 

[Freedm]

However, people tend to define life and death according to perceptions of activity and awareness. The Bible uses "death" a little differently.

People whom we would consider "alive" the Bible calls "dead". There's more to it than just simple English word, and our customary use.

Much love!

I knew somebody would make this claim, but it's erroneous. Dead is dead. You can not change the definition of it, to say that dead means you're in hell. That's not dead. Dead means you have no consciousness, no breath, no life. Just like a door knob. Death is the absence of life, just like dark is the absence of light. There is no version of light that is dark, and there is no version of life that is death. You have to be one or the other.

 

[Freedm]

Thanks for weighing in on this topic.
And welcome to the forum.

Are you familiar with Christian Universalism? (UR)

/

I've read a bit about universalism and I think a strong case can be made. Evidence seems to show that the early Christians all believed in it. Do you believe in it?

 

[GISMYS_7]

What little men may choose to think and believe about the all too real hell (eternal lake of fire ) changes no truth==believe the words of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

I've read a bit about universalism and I think a strong case can be made. Evidence seems to show that the early Christians all believed in it. Do you believe in it?

Yes, I agree.
I consider myself to be a Christian Universalist. (much to the displeasure of some here) - LOL
Also known as Ultimate Redemption, Universal Reconciliation and Universal Restoration. (UR)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I knew somebody would make this claim, but it's erroneous. Dead is dead. You can not change the definition of it, to say that dead means you're in hell. That's not dead. Dead means you have no consciousness, no breath, no life. Just like a door knob. Death is the absence of life, just like dark is the absence of light. There is no version of light that is dark, and there is no version of life that is death. You have to be one or the other.

I divide life and death into physical and spiritual.
Does that make sense to you?
We even have a term for life after death, the afterlife.

/

 

[Freedm]

There are four words that are translated into hell. They are Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaraus.

Definitions

Sheol is the state of the dead, and commonly depicted as "the grave". Hades is "the unseen world". Gehenna is the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where garbage was burned in "eternal fire" and some say even children were sacrificed there in pagan rituals at some point. Tartarus is the place where the angels who sinned were placed in chains, which is a place thought to be "below" Hades. This word is mentioned only once, in 2 Peter 2:4.

Most Notable

Sheol basically means "the grave", and the Jewish people believed that everyone, whether righteous or wicked, went to sheol upon death. What I find most interesting is that the KJV translates the word Sheol as "the grave" when it talks about righteous people dying, but translates the exact same word as "hell" when it talks about wicked people dying. This is a huge red flag to me, which screams "BIAS" and blatant scare tactics. We know for a fact, that scaring people into the church was a common tactic at that time. We'd be fools to think this same tactic wasn't used in the King James translation.

Translations

The following charts, I did not compile, so I can't take credit for them, but I found them online somewhere so I kept them. Notice that the King James translations are by far the most likely to use the word hell.

I will post the translation charts separately.

 

[St. SteVen]

There are four words that are translated into hell. They are Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaraus.

Thank you. That is very informative.

/

 

[Freedm]

Translation of the word "Sheol" in the Old Testament

​	1611 KJV​	King James Version​	NIV​	NKJV​	YLT​	CLT​	Latin Vulgate​
Gn. 37:35​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Gn. 42:38​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Gn. 44:29​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Gn. 44:31​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Nu. 16:30​	pit​	pit​	grave​	pit​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Nu. 16:33​	pit​	pit​	grave​	pit​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Dt. 32:22​	hell​	lowest hell​	death​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferni​
1Sa. 2:6​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
2Sa. 22:6​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferi​
1Ki. 2:6​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
1Ki. 2:9​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Job 7:9​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Job 11:8​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Job 14:13​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Job 17:13​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferus​
Job 17:16​	pit​	pit​	death​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Job 21:13​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferna​
Job 24:19​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Job 26:6​	hell​	hell​	death​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Ps. 6:5​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Ps. 9:17​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Ps. 16:10​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 18:5​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 30:3​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 31:17​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/v​
Ps. 49:14​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 49:14*5​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 49:15​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 55:15​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/v​
Ps. 86:13​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/v​
Ps. 88:3​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 89:48​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/v​

 

[Freedm]

More translations of Sheol

Ps. 116:3​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/v​
Ps. 139:8​	hell​	hell​	depths​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	n/a​
Ps. 141:7​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	*6​	unseen​	n/a​
Pr. 1:12​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Pr. 5:5​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Pr. 7:27​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferi​
Pr. 9:18​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferni​
Pr. 15:11​	hell​	hell​	death​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Pr. 15:24​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Pr. 23:14​	hell​	hell​	death​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Pr. 27:20​	hell​	hell​	death​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Pr. 30:16​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Ec. 9:10​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
SS. 8:6​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferus​
Is. 5:14​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Is. 14:9​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Is. 14:11​	hell​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Is. 14:15​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Is. 28:15​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Is. 28:18​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferno​
Is. 38:10​	grave​	grave​	death​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferi​
Is. 38:18​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​
Is. 57:9​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Ez. 31:15​	grave​	grave​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferos​
Ez. 31:16​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Ez. 31:17​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Ez. 32:21​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferni​
Ez. 32:27​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Ho. 13:14​	grave​	grave​	grave​	grave​	Sheol​	unseen​	mortis​
Am. 9:2​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernum​
Jon. 2:2​	hell​	hell​	grave​	Sheol​	Sheol​	unseen​	inferni *12​
Hab. 2:5​	hell​	hell​	grave​	hell​	Sheol​	unseen​	infernus​

 

[Freedm]

Translation of the word "Hades" in the New Testament

	1611 KJV​	KJV​	NIV​	Geneva​	NKJV​	CLT​	Vulgate​
Mt. 11:23​	hell​	hell​	depths​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	infernum​
Mt. 16:18​	hell​	hell​	Hades​	hel *4​	Hades​	unseen​	inferi​
Lk. 10:15​	hell​	hell​	depths​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	infernum​
Lk. 16:23​	hell​	hell​	Hades​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	inferno​
Ac. 2:27​	hell​	hell​	grave​	grave​	Hades​	unseen​	inferno​
Ac. 2:31​	hell​	hell​	grave​	grave​	Hades​	unseen​	inferno​
1Cor. 15:55**​	grave*2​	grave​	death​	grave​	Hades​	death​	mors​
Rv. 1:18​	hell​	hell​	Hades​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	inferni​
Rv. 6:8​	hell​	hell​	Hades​	Hell *5​	Hades​	unseen​	inferus​
Rv. 20:13​	hell *3​	hell​	Hades​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	inferus​
Rv. 20:14​	hell​	hell​	Hades​	hell​	Hades​	unseen​	inferus​

 

[Freedm]

Translation of the word "Gehenna" in the New Testament

	1611 KJV​	KJV & NIV & NKJV​	Geneva​	NASB​	YLT​	Vulgate​
Mt. 5:22​	hell fire​	hell​	hell *3​	hell *6​	Gehenna​	gehennae​
Mt. 5:29​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mt. 5:30​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mt. 10:28​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mt. 18:9​	hell fire​	hell​	hell fire​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mt. 23:15​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennae​
Mt. 23:33​	hell​	hell​	hell *4​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennae​
Mk. 9:43​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mk. 9:45​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Mk. 9:47​	hel fire*1​	hell​	hellfire​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Lk. 12:5​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehennam​
Js. 3:6*2​	hell​	hell​	hell *5​	hell​	Gehenna​	gehenna​

 

[Freedm]

Translation of the word "Tartarus" in the New Testament

	1611 KJV​	KJV, NKJV​	Geneva​	NIV​	NRSV​	YLT & CLT​	Roth​	Vulgate​
2Pt. 2:4*1​	hell​	hell​	hell​	hell *2​	hell *3​	Tartarus​	lowest hades​	tartarum​