The gods of amil.

[Gilligan]

The amil doctrine slyly prophecies the serpent's promise of becoming as gods in heaven and on earth. They do so from the side door, much like how the serpent may have entered the garden.

1. Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection. It then says Christians already have part in it. Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God. This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth. And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

No Scripture ever teaches that there are 'co-rulers', i.e. co-ruling gods, with God the Father and Son on His throne, nor with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem. Being seated in heavenly places has nothing to do with reigning and ruling over heaven. Those heavenly seats are only in our hearts, where the Lord sups with us on earth. That is when we behold the kingdom of God is within us, not we are now in heaven, and certainly not ruling over it.

3. Finally, along with this rule of nations on earth, amil exhorts the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth.

The combination of these three teachings, is of resurrected immortal gods reigning in heaven and on earth. Combined with OSAS, their godship is immortal forever in their own right, that can never fail to be ruling over heaven and earth.

And with all the amil infighting with non-amil heretics, it certainly sounds like the immortal gods are still alive and kicking as always.

I just wonder how many others, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are now being ruling over on earth. Should we declare ourselves rulers of the universe, including heaven and earth, and start telling others what to do for Christ's kingdom come? Or how many angels are we now ruling over in heaven? Do we offer sage counsel to the Son on the throne, Who may pass it on to the Father?

Most of this stuff is merely over spiritualization of physical things prophesied. But declaring ourselves to be ruling over heaven with God at this time, is across the line immortal gods stuff.

Now, if we have also come down to earth to reign, after we were resurrected, then that would be heavenly icing on the delusional cake.

 

[ewq1938]

The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

(Each of these issues have been presented in threads in various forums by people who believe in Amillennialism. These may or may not be held by every individual of that doctrine.) Each person who believes in Amillennialism is a good person with good intent regarding scriptural interpretation...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[WPM]

The amil doctrine slyly prophecies the serpent's promise of becoming as gods in heaven and on earth. They do so from the side door, much like how the serpent may have entered the garden.

This is utter nonsense. You are advancing lies and wilful deception to support this fiction. You know that no Bible-believing Christian believes such nonsense. Shame on you for inventing such a deliberate fallacy and parceling it up as something legitimate. This is exactly what the serpent does. Your tactic is obviously projection - attributing to others what pertains to yourself.

Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection. It then says Christians already have part in it. Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

It would help if you studied your Bible before making your false claims. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God. This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth. And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

We reign now spiritually in life and reign with Him when we die. The redeemed are positionally seated with Him now. Please read Romans 5:17, “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

This tells us that those who experience Christ in this life reign by Christ. The phrase “shall reign” is in the future tense because the reigning follows salvation. But we should not miss that this is expressly and unquestionably speaking about "life."

Ephesians 2:5-6 says, speaking of God, “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together (aorist, active, indicative), with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together (aorist, active, particle), and made us sit together (aorist, active, indicative), in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Ephesians 1:3 also corroborates, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed (aorist, active, indicative), us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

How are we seated in heavenly places?

Because He is! Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head!

· He lived on our behalf.
· He died on our behalf.
· He rose from the dead on our behalf.
· He reigns in heaven tonight on our behalf.

We are spiritually united to Him!

 

[WPM]

3. Finally, along with this rule of nations on earth, amil exhorts the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth.

The combination of these three teachings, is of resurrected immortal gods reigning in heaven and on earth. Combined with OSAS, their godship is immortal forever in their own right, that can never fail to be ruling over heaven and earth.

And with all the amil infighting with non-amil heretics, it certainly sounds like the immortal gods are still alive and kicking as always.

I just wonder how many others, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are now being ruling over on earth. Should we declare ourselves rulers of the universe, including heaven and earth, and start telling others what to do for Christ's kingdom come? Or how many angels are we now ruling over in heaven? Do we offer sage counsel to the Son on the throne, Who may pass it on to the Father?

Most of this stuff is merely over spiritualization of physical things prophesied. But declaring ourselves to be ruling over heaven with God at this time, is across the line immortal gods stuff.

Now, if we have also come down to earth to reign, after we were resurrected, then that would be heavenly icing on the delusional cake.

Which Amils claim this? Cough up or shut up! Of course, you have zero quotes, zero evidence. You are the source of your own delusions and hatred. This whole Op is a frustrated rant against the truth. You have created a straw-man who has just gone up in smoke with your beloved doctrine. You have no answer to Amil so you artificially create a narrative to justify the unjustifiable. Hitler did the same and you know how that ended up. Your bitterness is oozing from your post.

 

[WPM]

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God. This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth. And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

No Scripture ever teaches that there are 'co-rulers', i.e. co-ruling gods, with God the Father and Son on His throne, nor with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem. Being seated in heavenly places has nothing to do with reigning and ruling over heaven. Those heavenly seats are only in our hearts, where the Lord sups with us on earth. That is when we behold the kingdom of God is within us, not we are now in heaven, and certainly not ruling over it.

Revelation 20:4 says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be (plural future middle indicative) priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign (plural future middle indicative) with him a thousand years.”

This is speaking from the perspective of the "first resurrection." This can only relate to Christ's glorious victory over the grave that allowed the "souls" of God's people to rise to the heavenly abode during the intermediate state to reign with Christ.

The focus here is what results from the “first resurrection.” It is not just that the elect secure eternal salvation and are saved from the terror of eternal punishment (the second death) but it is that they become kings and priests as a result of this great victory over every enemy that has held man down. It is important to see that the wording here is made in the context of the resurrection. It commenced the millennial period, when Jesus defeated the grave. There is no other first resurrection.

We are reigning now. We are kings and priests on earth now. The "dead in Christ" are kings and priests in heaven now. After we identified with this resurrection we entered into the heavenly reign of Christ in life on earth (in its yet imperfect sense) and in glory (in its more perfect sense) when He comes again.

Acts 17:28 tells us, “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”

Through Christ – and what He has secured at Calvary – we now have our standing and inheritance. We possess a spiritual power within us from above since Pentecost that will assure us victory in the many spiritual challenges we face on this earth.

The New Testament respectfully states that we are what we are and we will be what we will be “through Christ” “in Christ” or “by Christ.” Ephesians 5:30 describes the spiritual oneness found in Christ: “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Our “life is hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:3). That means we “are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power” (Col 2:11).

John says in Revelation 1:5-6, “Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made (aorist active indicative) us kings and priests unto God and his father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.”

We are kings now!!! We therefore reign now!!! This is current and occurs before the second coming of the Lord. This shows what we are now positionally and spiritually “in Christ” – which is reigning in delegated authority will be realised in all its eternal glory physically when we are glorified at Christ’s Coming. The elect of God become kings and priests in salvation when they enter into all the riches of Christ and His glorious power. We become joint-heirs with Him in His current reign and marvellous glory. We become imitators of Him in His humble and contrite earthly ministry. Here again Calvary is given as the transaction that enabled believers to enter into the two spiritual offices described here – kingship and priesthood. Without the cross-work we could never have realised these heavenly privileges.

This dual role of kingship and priesthood is not just restricted to the redeemed in heaven, or does it commence at entry into the heavenly shore, it begins upon this earth at the new birth. The family of God today are positionally reigning as kings and priest in both heaven and on earth. They perform such an awesome function in and through the person of Christ and His impeccable life, His atoning death and victorious resurrection. In fact, 1 Peter 2:9 says of the Church presently – intra-Advent, “Ye are a chosen generation, a royal (or kingly) priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.”

We are kings and priests today. The demand of a priest was to make a sacrifice
and intercede for the people. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense. The responsibility of a king was to reign and exercise authority and power within the kingdom. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense.

We are presently a kingly priesthood. This is current and occurs before the second coming of the Lord.

Many Christians are under the mistaken impression that their spiritual kingship and place of reigning in Christ is all yet future; however, whilst our reign is assuredly future, it is also assuredly present.

Please read Romans 5:17, “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

We are positionally reigning now in life through Christ. Such was secured through Christ's victorious work at Calvary. There, Christ defeated every enemy of righteousness – including sin, death, the grave, hell, Satan, sickness, the demonic realm, and so on. The people of God, being “in Christ,” have therefore entered into that victory and have been given kingdom authority over the demonic realm through the blood of Jesus when moving in the Spirit and in the will of God. In fact, the word "shall" in the King James Version doesn't actually appear in the original but is added by the translators.

Listen to what Paul teaches in Romans 8:16-17: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Being “joint-heirs with Christ” means that we enjoy the benefits and privileges of what He won for us through His sinless life, His atoning death, and His victorious resurrection. What is more, as "joint-heirs with Christ" we reign because He reigns.

When we put on Christ in salvation we entered into His kingdom and therefore came under His kingship, which resulted in us being placed in heavenly authority with kingly robes. The elect of God today “are ambassadors for Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:20). The reason being, “he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

The Greek word for “heir” is kleronomos meaning ‘getting by apportionment’, it can be interpreted ‘an inheritor or a possessor’. This is what happens upon salvation, we were adopted into the family of God and became one with Christ, whereupon, through Christ, we assumed a heavenly inheritance.

Christians do not lose any of their spiritual power when they die, they continue to reign "in Christ" because they are one with Him. They rule because He rules. It is Premil that always wants to diminish the power and authority of Christ and His Church in life and in death. They present a BIG devil, and a small god, instead of a small devil and a BIG God.

 

[Earburner]

The amil doctrine slyly prophecies the serpent's promise of becoming as gods in heaven and on earth. They do so from the side door, much like how the serpent may have entered the garden.

1. Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection. It then says Christians already have part in it. Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God. This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth. And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

No Scripture ever teaches that there are 'co-rulers', i.e. co-ruling gods, with God the Father and Son on His throne, nor with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem. Being seated in heavenly places has nothing to do with reigning and ruling over heaven. Those heavenly seats are only in our hearts, where the Lord sups with us on earth. That is when we behold the kingdom of God is within us, not we are now in heaven, and certainly not ruling over it.

3. Finally, along with this rule of nations on earth, amil exhorts the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth.

The combination of these three teachings, is of resurrected immortal gods reigning in heaven and on earth. Combined with OSAS, their godship is immortal forever in their own right, that can never fail to be ruling over heaven and earth.

And with all the amil infighting with non-amil heretics, it certainly sounds like the immortal gods are still alive and kicking as always.

I just wonder how many others, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are now being ruling over on earth. Should we declare ourselves rulers of the universe, including heaven and earth, and start telling others what to do for Christ's kingdom come? Or how many angels are we now ruling over in heaven? Do we offer sage counsel to the Son on the throne, Who may pass it on to the Father?

Most of this stuff is merely over spiritualization of physical things prophesied. But declaring ourselves to be ruling over heaven with God at this time, is across the line immortal gods stuff.

Now, if we have also come down to earth to reign, after we were resurrected, then that would be heavenly icing on the delusional cake.

First and foremost, you must discern that there are at least two schools of thought with Amillennial viewpoints.
1. The indoctrinated views of religion and it's years of tradition, through the wisdom of men.
2. The independent views of born again Christians, who each do agree collectively on the fundamentals, through the authority of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 2:5

 

[Timtofly]

Which Amils claim this? Cough up or shut up! Of course, you have zero quotes, zero evidence. You are the source of your own delusions and hatred. This whole Op is a frustrated rant against the truth. You have created a straw-man who has just gone up in smoke with your beloved doctrine. You have no answer to Amil so you artificially create a narrative to justify the unjustifiable. Hitler did the same and you know how that ended up. Your bitterness is oozing from your post.

Sounds like a couple of other threads started about what is wrong with premil.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[WPM]

Sounds like a couple of other threads started about what is wrong with premil.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Not so. Quite the opposite. When have I ever alleged that Premils think they are gods or anything like that? Seriously! I criticize their mistaken expectation of the future age.

 

[Gilligan]

This is utter nonsense.

Tell me about it. OSAS also teaches being gods from another side door. They claim they are now immortal forever in their own right, and God Himself can't condemn them for sinning as they wish from time to time. And like you, they also say their souls are in heaven right now, far far away from any responsibility for what their old dead zombie bodies are still doing on earth.

It's the ultimate excuse of blaming it on their bodies. It's worse than even saying the devil made me do it. At least then someone admits it was them that did it, and not just their bodies.

You are advancing lies and wilful deception to support this fiction. You know that no Bible-believing Christian believes such nonsense.

There are many who teach things, that when stripped bare to bone, they deny believing it. Such as the OSAS example above.

The reason is some people really don't believe what they are teaching, but just say things that sound really great to them, until their doctrinal fluff is brushed aside for them.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.

They don't really care what God is saying in Scripture, but only what they love to hear themselves say.

Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6),

And by saying you now have part in the resurrection, then you are saying you also are resurrected from the dead as He.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

You're not in the resurrection, nor are you as the angels in heaven, much less ruling them. You may think you are an immortal god ruling with God in heaven and on earth, but you're not.

Just try telling someone that on their doorstep, and see what happens. They may be nice about it, and just say you are a legend in your own mind.

We reign now spiritually in life and reign with Him when we die.

No living creature on earth is dead, nor died.

Unless you are saying you are as Lazarus, or one of the OT saints raised from their graves at the death of Jesus. That would be different.

I believe the last antichrist may be an old dead false prophet raised from the dead to live again, and Satan will enter him with power to make fire come down from heaven in sight of men, to destroy his enemies. He would certainly have right to claim to have died and risen again, as you do.

You're prophesying the wrong christ coming again to earth. The only fire you're going to see coming down from heaven in your sight, is from a false christ. If you live that long.

This is another proof that the fire of God does not come down from heaven at the Lord's return to rule the earth: When His fire destroys Gog and Magog, it won't be in the sight of men, other than themselves of course.

So, since you're itching to see fire of God from heaven, then you'll get a real close and up front look at it.

The redeemed are positionally seated with Him now.

In our own hearts, not in heaven, and certainly not ruling over heaven as gods with God.

I am not now in heaven, and neither are you. You're still on earth, like every other creature on earth.

You can think you're now divinely ruling from heaven, like new age gurus, but you're not. Nor are they.

Unless of course you want to tell one of the angels you rule, to come down and tell me otherwise. Be sure he confesses your name when he comes to me. I'll need your bona fides to believe it.

Please read Romans 5:17, “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

True. Every man reigns in their own lives on earth, whether to do righteousness with Christ, or to do evil with the devil.

But you are not now reigning over any other person, especially not a nation.

Have you taken my suggestion and tried telling someone else that? Did you then try telling them what to do on their own doorstep? Did they show you their gun instead of obeying you?

This tells us that those who experience Christ in this life reign by Christ. The phrase “shall reign” is in the future tense because the reigning follows salvation. But we should not miss that this is expressly and unquestionably speaking about "life."

Our lives. Not yet others, until His millennial reign with us.

Ephesians 2:5-6 says, speaking of God, “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together (aorist, active, indicative), with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together (aorist, active, particle), and made us sit together (aorist, active, indicative), in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Ephesians 1:3 also corroborates, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed (aorist, active, indicative), us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

How are we seated in heavenly places?

I am in my heart, where I see Jesus and the kingdom of God within me, in purity and cleanness from lust and sin.

Do you?

As I said, if you are now seated in heaven, and ruling there, then I'll be waiting to hear from one of your angels. Don't let him forget he must mention you by name.

Because He is! Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head!

True. But your rule on earth is hidden in your own mind.

· He lived on our behalf.
· He died on our behalf.
· He rose from the dead on our behalf.
· He reigns in heaven tonight on our behalf.

We are spiritually united to Him!

True. One day His saints will be united with Him in ruling the earth. But never ruling heaven with Him.

We will be as the angels, not gods telling God's angels what to do.

 

[Gilligan]

The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

(Each of these issues have been presented in threads in various forums by people who believe in Amillennialism. These may or may not be held by every individual of that doctrine.) Each person who believes in Amillennialism is a good person with good intent regarding scriptural interpretation...

www.christianityboard.com

Everyone has their own opinion and judgement.

While I agree in theory that false teaching does not automatically equate with sinful living, since we have all found ourselves in error at some time or other, and some don't even know exactly what they are teaching.

However I do not at all agree with the nonjudgmental judgment of some, that every false teacher has good intentions with the Bible.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Gilligan]

Which Amils claim this? Cough up or shut up!

Do you believe you are now in the resurrection?

Do you believe you are now ruling in heaven with God?

Do you believe you are now ruling the earth with Christ?

If not, then say so.

If so, then you are teaching being as gods ruling in heaven and on earth, just as the serpent promises.

 

[robert derrick]

Revelation 20:4 says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be (plural future middle indicative) priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign (plural future middle indicative) with him a thousand years.”

This is speaking from the perspective of the "first resurrection." This can only relate to Christ's glorious victory over the grave that allowed the "souls" of God's people to rise to the heavenly abode during the intermediate state to reign with Christ.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

No man on earth today is in the resurrection, nor are as angels in heaven.

And no man, other than the man Christ Jesus, will ever rule with God in heaven.

Humble Christians believe it is enough one day to be in the resurrection and as the angels in heaven, and pray for it. Only the proud and puffed up suppose themselves to be ruling God's angels, and only the delusional think they are doing so now while still on earth.

I'm still waiting from one of your angels to show up and mention your name.

The focus here is what results from the “first resurrection.”

Millennial reign with Christ in resurrected immortal bodies on earth.

The amil delusional version of it is false.

It is not just that the elect secure eternal salvation and are saved from the terror of eternal punishment (the second death) but it is that they become kings and priests as a result of this great victory over every enemy that has held man down. It is important to see that the wording here is made in the context of the resurrection. It commenced the millennial period, when Jesus defeated the grave. There is no other first resurrection.

No one on earth is already in the resurrection, nor ruling the angels in heaven, nor ruling anyone nor any nation with Christ on earth.

The rule and law of man still reigns over men's lives on earth, and they enforce it. Though often unjustly.

We are reigning now.

In your own mind and life no doubt. But I certainly don't acknowledge your rule over my life and household. Not even over my toilet.

We are kings and priests on earth now.

True. Spiritually with Him in our own hearts and lives. I am not a king nor priest over anyone else, especially not over any nation.

The "dead in Christ" are kings and priests in heaven now.

False. The souls of Christians, whose bodies are in the grave, (which don't include you), are at the altar of Jesus waiting for the rest being saved on earth, until He comes again with the first resurrection of the dead.

The only King and Priest in heaven is the Father and the Son, and the only priesthood in New jerusalem will be God and the Lamb, who are the temple thereof.

You're neither a dead in Christ, nor king and priest in heaven ruling anything at all.

After we identified with this resurrection

I've heard of this 'identity' Christianity before, and it's as messed up as identity politics, as well as 'identifying' as a man or female one day to the next.

It's equally delusional to try identifying ourselves on earth with the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. It's why some imagine themselves as immortal god-kings and priests ruling in heaven now.

we entered into the heavenly reign of Christ in life on earth (in its yet imperfect sense)

There is no imperfect salvation and justification in Christ Jesus. Nor imperfect resurrection from the dead.

and in glory (in its more perfect sense) when He comes again.

There is no resurrection unto ruling heaven, except for Jesus.

We will be as the angels in heaven, not ruling them as god-kings of Ragnarok.

We possess a spiritual power within us from above since Pentecost that will assure us victory in the many spiritual challenges we face on this earth.

Exactly, now your preaching the gospel of Scripture.

No Christian has any power of Christ with His rule and law to exercise authority over anyone else on earth, whether spiritual or physical. Christians can be ruling in governments of men, but they are still governments of men with men's laws, not Christ's.

No Christian at this time is governing anyone else with God's law and rod of iron. And if they are trying to, then they are no doubt botching it the same as any church militant group of fanatics on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

The New Testament respectfully states that we are what we are and we will be what we will be “through Christ” “in Christ” or “by Christ.” Ephesians 5:30 describes the spiritual oneness found in Christ: “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Our “life is hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:3). That means we “are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power” (Col 2:11).

John says in Revelation 1:5-6, “Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made (aorist active indicative) us kings and priests unto God and his father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.”

We are kings now!!! We therefore reign now!!! This is current and occurs before the second coming of the Lord. This shows what we are now positionally and spiritually “in Christ” – which is reigning in delegated authority will be realised in all its eternal glory physically when we are glorified at Christ’s Coming. The elect of God become kings and priests in salvation when they enter into all the riches of Christ and His glorious power. We become joint-heirs with Him in His current reign and marvellous glory. We become imitators of Him in His humble and contrite earthly ministry. Here again Calvary is given as the transaction that enabled believers to enter into the two spiritual offices described here – kingship and priesthood. Without the cross-work we could never have realised these heavenly privileges.

This dual role of kingship and priesthood is not just restricted to the redeemed in heaven, or does it commence at entry into the heavenly shore, it begins upon this earth at the new birth. The family of God today are positionally reigning as kings and priest in both heaven and on earth. They perform such an awesome function in and through the person of Christ and His impeccable life, His atoning death and victorious resurrection. In fact, 1 Peter 2:9 says of the Church presently – intra-Advent, “Ye are a chosen generation, a royal (or kingly) priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.”

We are kings and priests today. The demand of a priest was to make a sacrifice
and intercede for the people. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense. The responsibility of a king was to reign and exercise authority and power within the kingdom. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense.

We are presently a kingly priesthood. This is current and occurs before the second coming of the Lord.

Many Christians are under the mistaken impression that their spiritual kingship and place of reigning in Christ is all yet future; however, whilst our reign is assuredly future, it is also assuredly present.

Please read Romans 5:17, “For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

We are positionally reigning now in life through Christ. Such was secured through Christ's victorious work at Calvary. There, Christ defeated every enemy of righteousness – including sin, death, the grave, hell, Satan, sickness, the demonic realm, and so on. The people of God, being “in Christ,” have therefore entered into that victory and have been given kingdom authority over the demonic realm through the blood of Jesus when moving in the Spirit and in the will of God. In fact, the word "shall" in the King James Version doesn't actually appear in the original but is added by the translators.

Listen to what Paul teaches in Romans 8:16-17: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Being “joint-heirs with Christ” means that we enjoy the benefits and privileges of what He won for us through His sinless life, His atoning death, and His victorious resurrection. What is more, as "joint-heirs with Christ" we reign because He reigns.

When we put on Christ in salvation we entered into His kingdom and therefore came under His kingship, which resulted in us being placed in heavenly authority with kingly robes. The elect of God today “are ambassadors for Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:20). The reason being, “he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

The Greek word for “heir” is kleronomos meaning ‘getting by apportionment’, it can be interpreted ‘an inheritor or a possessor’. This is what happens upon salvation, we were adopted into the family of God and became one with Christ, whereupon, through Christ, we assumed a heavenly inheritance.

Christians do not lose any of their spiritual power when they die, they continue to reign "in Christ" because they are one with Him. They rule because He rules. It is Premil that always wants to diminish the power and authority of Christ and His Church in life and in death. They present a BIG devil, and a small god, instead of a small devil and a BIG God.

Great. Another tiresome copy and paste job. Thank God I can skip over it, when I see it.

 

[WPM]

Do you believe you are now in the resurrection?

Do you believe you are now ruling in heaven with God?

Do you believe you are now ruling the earth with Christ?

If not, then say so.

If so, then you are teaching being as gods ruling in heaven and on earth, just as the serpent promises.

We have not been physically resurrected yet. That will occur at the second coming. We have been spiritually resurrected from the grave of sin upon salvation. As I have shown you, Christians are spiritually reigning now in Christ - both in life and in death. I noticed you carefully steered around that (you have to to maintain your false claims). Christians are now reigning over the invisible spiritual realm "in Christ." They are here to dethrone Christ in the lives of the ungodly through the glorious Gospel of Christ.

If you did your due-diligence before opening your mouth you would save yourself a lot of embarrassment. You obviously do not have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[rockytopva]

If I had to pick an end time date I would go, word by word, with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.

It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Therefore there are no pre or post millennia Gods.. Christ come as a thief and to the timing we don’t know… He could come today!

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. - Matthew 24

 

[ewq1938]

since we have all found ourselves in error at some time or other

This answers for me.

 

[jeffweeder]

This is utter nonsense. You are advancing lies and wilful deception to support this fiction. You know that no Bible-believing Christian believes such nonsense. Shame on you for inventing such a deliberate fallacy and parceling it up as something legitimate. This is exactly what the serpent does. Your tactic is obviously projection - attributing to others what pertains to yourself.



It would help if you studied your Bible before making your false claims. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.



We reign now spiritually in life and reign with Him when we die. The redeemed are positionally seated with Him now. Please read Romans 5:17, “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”

This tells us that those who experience Christ in this life reign by Christ. The phrase “shall reign” is in the future tense because the reigning follows salvation. But we should not miss that this is expressly and unquestionably speaking about "life."

Ephesians 2:5-6 says, speaking of God, “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together (aorist, active, indicative), with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together (aorist, active, particle), and made us sit together (aorist, active, indicative), in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

Ephesians 1:3 also corroborates, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed (aorist, active, indicative), us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.”

How are we seated in heavenly places?

Because He is! Remember, we are in Him! We are one with Him! His life is our life. We are hidden in Him. He is our legal head!

· He lived on our behalf.
· He died on our behalf.
· He rose from the dead on our behalf.
· He reigns in heaven tonight on our behalf.

We are spiritually united to Him!

Very well put.
Gilligan has been shipwrecked for far too long.

 

[Marty fox]

The amil doctrine slyly prophecies the serpent's promise of becoming as gods in heaven and on earth. They do so from the side door, much like how the serpent may have entered the garden.

1. Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection. It then says Christians already have part in it. Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

2. That is also added to the amil teaching, that we are now reigning in heaven, as well as on earth. That means we are now in heaven reigning with God. This is the heresy of the resurrection is past, that Paul rebukes, because they believed they were now rulers in heaven, while on earth. And no Christian is ever ruling with God in heaven, before or after the resurrection of the dead. The only place Christians reign and rule with Christ is on earth.

No Scripture ever teaches that there are 'co-rulers', i.e. co-ruling gods, with God the Father and Son on His throne, nor with God and the Lamb in New Jerusalem. Being seated in heavenly places has nothing to do with reigning and ruling over heaven. Those heavenly seats are only in our hearts, where the Lord sups with us on earth. That is when we behold the kingdom of God is within us, not we are now in heaven, and certainly not ruling over it.

3. Finally, along with this rule of nations on earth, amil exhorts the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth.

The combination of these three teachings, is of resurrected immortal gods reigning in heaven and on earth. Combined with OSAS, their godship is immortal forever in their own right, that can never fail to be ruling over heaven and earth.

And with all the amil infighting with non-amil heretics, it certainly sounds like the immortal gods are still alive and kicking as always.

I just wonder how many others, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim, are now being ruling over on earth. Should we declare ourselves rulers of the universe, including heaven and earth, and start telling others what to do for Christ's kingdom come? Or how many angels are we now ruling over in heaven? Do we offer sage counsel to the Son on the throne, Who may pass it on to the Father?

Most of this stuff is merely over spiritualization of physical things prophesied. But declaring ourselves to be ruling over heaven with God at this time, is across the line immortal gods stuff.

Now, if we have also come down to earth to reign, after we were resurrected, then that would be heavenly icing on the delusional cake.

I have no idea who you think believes all of this we are never Gods. We believe what Paul actually taught shown below

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

 

[ewq1938]

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Paul never taught that beheaded people came back to life after having been killed for refusing the mark of the beast in the GT. The first resurrection is future and happens at the second coming.

 

[WPM]

Paul never taught that beheaded people came back to life after having been killed for refusing the mark of the beast in the GT. The first resurrection is future and happens at the second coming.

You are fighting the Scriptures again to support your Premil teaching. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.