I find if I get to involved in looking at myself I tend to shut God out, so I try to keep my focus off of myself, and like you said, our closest relationship, and very dear.
Much love!
The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood
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Cooper
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I am a Protestant, and we love the Lord's prayer, as we do all scripture, and indeed it is wrong to change or re-interpret it, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE CULTS DO. You will understand my meaning, I am sure.
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Cooper
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Hidden In Him
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Just finished up on another thread. I'll take a look later. Taking a break for now.
God bless.
Hidden In Him
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Before I go, are you sure this is the right link? I skimmed it twice, and it doesn't seem to make any reference to Christianity vs Judaism.
Before I go, are you sure this is the right link? I skimmed it twice, and it doesn't seem to make any reference to Christianity vs Judaism.
Sorry @Hidden In Him. It's here: https://www.realbiblestudy.org/a-parallel-christianity-and-judaism
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Ok, I read through your piece, and I assume you are referring to this right here:
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Comparing the two covenants:
Jewish: When the Jewish people sinned, God's instructions in Leviticus were to present sacrifices to the Lord to atone for their sins. In other words, although sin separated them from God, in this case the Jewish people that sinned did not stop being God's chosen people. They remained God's chosen people as long as the daily sacrifices were presented as instructed (Exodus 19:5).
Christians: When the Christian believers sin, Jesus provided the perfect prayer for the forgiveness of their sins (Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4). As long as this prayer is recited daily as instructed by Jesus, a Christian remains in Jesus, and Jesus remains in him. And those Christians remain belonging to Jesus (saved):
John 15:4:
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
But if a person keeps on sinning for a long time without praying the Lord's Prayer and without growing spiritually, eventually God gives up on him. This person would be one of these cases:
Matthew 13:22:
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
John 15:6:
Jesus said in the Vine and branches parable: If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Luke 13:6-9:
Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, `For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?' "`Sir,' the man replied, `leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.
Note: What is "fruit"? It is spiritual maturity. God is patient with us. He won't strike us down if we skip a few times praying the Lord's Prayer, or if we don't read our Bible for spiritual maturity, as in the fig tree parable, "Fertilize and wait another year..."
___________________
Again I would have to respond that you are presenting dangerous teaching here. You are resting "abiding in Him" completely under the domain of saying the Lord's Prayer. It's downright cultish I'm afraid. It makes the assumption that the handwriting in the ordinances that were against us have not been nailed to the cross, and are therefore still in force, i.e. that we are not dead to sin and alive unto Christ now, so our sins must be continually addressed like the Jews had to make sacrifices.
You seem courteous and pleasant enough, but I don't like this teaching. I think it creates a potential form of self-condemnation, and leads others to eventually start asking themselves just how often they need to say their Lord's Prayer or God may abandon them. It's spooky theology, and unnecessary IMO.
@Hidden In Him, ok thank you for looking, and providing civil feedback
. It took me years of un-influenced Bible study and praying to get here. I didn't start out with this end-result in mind. I found it through all the diligent studying and praying. I truly believe God guided me to it. I got it all from the Bible. Nothing from me; it's not my "teaching", it's Bible references that speak for themselves. And I provided complete list of Bible references supporting my points.No need to agree with me now. But I hope the info I provided in this thread will resonate with some readers who will see it this way, and it will grow in them over time. Again, all we have to do is look closer at my Bible references, not some other human/books references. I am really not looking for personal satisfaction out of this. It came from God, and it belongs to Him. Whether people agree with it or not, I funnel it all to God. I'm just the messenger.
I do not expect many to see it clearly, only a "few" as in Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
To you @Hidden In Him, since you've been nice with your answers, I see potential that you may take the time to re-examine those Bible references I provided, with an open mind and open heart. And not stick to what the majority are saying. I am not pushing my agenda - I am pointing to Bible references. Let those references guide you, not me. I would happy if you would email me directly too: [email protected]
Thank you, and may God bless you!
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Well yes, I am working on being more cordial these days : )
But just be advised, those who teach take upon themselves a grave responsibility that I don't think many on this forum even fully appreciate, and while studying for yourself is to be advised, be very careful that you don't lead others astray. When you assume the role of a teacher over others, it makes you accountable to God for what you did with His word, ether good or bad.
@Hidden In Him, thank you for the warning. I agree with you. And I also have a warning to pastors, preachers, church ministers, in these forums (I don't mean you Hidden In Him). I received hundreds of opposing replies on this thread and the same subject-threads on other forums. Opposing just to oppose; some saw that I was advising people to leave churches, stop tithing, and study the Bible on their own and research online.
To those pastors/preachers/ministers/priests I say, if you do see clearly that my message is from God but you continue to oppose it for fear of losing your church income, then that makes you no different than the Pharisees who knew Jesus was the son of God, but crucified Him to preserve their way of life.
To those pastors/preachers/ministers/priests I say, if you do see clearly that my message is from God but you continue to oppose it for fear of losing your church income, then that makes you no different than the Pharisees who knew Jesus was the son of God, but crucified Him to preserve their way of life.
Cooper
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I forgot to give the background behind the words, "Give us this day our daily bread." It harks back to when the Israelites were in the wilderness and the I AM sent manor from heaven. That was a long time before the I AM came among us in the flesh. So moving forward to the advent of God on earth, and the prayer he left with us, we lean the reason behind the request to be given their daily bread. It is this.
When a Jewish landowner learned one of his men had become a Christian, he was dismissed from his job and the family were left starving. They needed bread.
When a Jewish landowner learned one of his men had become a Christian, he was dismissed from his job and the family were left starving. They needed bread.
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Sorry @Cooper, not quite. Take a look at this verse:
John 6:58
Jesus said: "This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."
And this:
John 6:26-27
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you.
Cooper
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So in verse 58 Jesus tells us He is the bread of life and those who partake of Him will live forever, and in verse 27 he tells us he is the giver of eternal life. Brilliant. That is enough to shut up anyone who says Jesus was only a man and nothing more. What did I say that you disapprove of? People need to eat as well. They already had the living bread, they did not need to ask for it daily.
.
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Ah ok. I misunderstood what you said previously then. I guess we are in violent agreement
With God's blessings, have a good evening
I do agree, SIN is man Against God........
FOR: Having HAD disbelief.
FOR: Corrupting ones soul.
And I do believe, ONCE an individual Heartfully Confesses Repentance
FOR: Having HAD disbelief.
FOR: Corrupting ones soul.
God ACCEPTS that True Confession, and Converts that person into a NEW Creature.....DONE DEAL....Accomplished ....That person is Forever forgiven, saved, quickened, and With God....and does NOT bear repeating.
I do agree, TRESPASSES are men Against men....
FOR; ANY intended or ANY unintended harm of one man toward another man.
Scripture reveals:
*Men can Forgive other men of Trespasses.....or not.
*Men can Accept an other mans Forgiveness of Trespasses....or not.
*Men who Forgive other men of their Trespasses, SO ALSO WILL God, Forgive any Trespasses that “Forgiver” has committed against other men...(without regard of the other men.)
And to note:
Men forgiving men of Trespasses, DOES NOT “automatically” mean...NO Consequences.
Example:
Trespass; man lies to man. Man forgives the lie...the consequence is Trust is compromised.
Trespass; man steals from man. Man forgives the stealing....the consequence of replenishing the thing the man stole.
Trespass; man crashes his vehicle into an other vehicle (property)....Man forgives the crash act......the consequence is responsibility for restoring the vehicle (property damage).
Trespass; man bodily unintentionally bumps into another man....man asks for pardon, to be excused, is sorry....man agrees to pardon, to excuse, to accept sorry....no harm, no foul, issue resolved.
Same effect with God.
God forgives the flesh for disbelief....the consequence of Death of the Flesh is required.
Glory to God,
Taken
For me: I do have what I call “ Formal” prayer, “Dear Heavenly Father .... my words....and always remembering Jesus....ending in Jesus’ Name...
Yet also; all day long, whatever I’m doing: driving, cleaning, playing with the animals, observing something, searching for something....I have this thought conversation going on with Jesus about everything. It is difficult to put into words, but is just there, familiar and completely “supernaturally natural”... which sounds strange....because “supernatural and natural” are opposite ends of the spectrum.
Glory to God,
Taken
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
@Christian Believer @Taken
I am currently in the process of coming to better understand passages that mention "the Day of the Lord." I have discovered that the Day of the Lord consists of a chain of events that lead up to the coming of Jesus to bring about the kingdom of God on earth. In this regard, the Lord's prayer is relevant to this issue. Notice how the prayer begins,
Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Right off the bat, Jesus wants his followers to turn their concern to the will of the Father and specifically, the coming kingdom. And we learn that whatever that looks like, it involves a moment in our future when the Father will vindicate the holiness of his name. Our very first thought, then, should be our desire that the Father in heaven make his name holy again, which Jesus says, involves the coming kingdom when the Father's will shall be done on earth as it is in heaven.
So what should our second thought be? "Give us this day our daily bread"? I agree, this seems like an abrupt non-sequitur. So I would like to propose another translation of the Greek text, which I believe, fits closer to what Jesus actually meant to say.
give us this day, the bread sufficient for the coming day
What is the coming day? Is Jesus asking us to pray this prayer in the morning so that we might have something to eat for lunch? To answer this, I would like to remind us of what Jesus said about bread when Satan tempted him to turn the stones into bread.
3 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:3-5
Jesus is telling Satan that in order to sustain our life, we need more than bread. We need to pay attention to every word that comes out of the mouth of God. So then, in this context, Jesus likens the teaching of God, which sustains our spiritual existence, to bread that sustains our physical existence. To sustain our life we need both. But if we must go without one or the other, we can go without bread but we can never go without every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
What is the coming day? In the context of the prayer, "the coming day" is the day when God vindicates his holy name. And what we need today, is a particular kind of bread that will sustain us until that day arrives. Therefore, we are not asking for actual bread, we are asking for words that come out of the mouth of God, that will sustain us as we wait for God to bring about his kingdom on earth.
I am currently in the process of coming to better understand passages that mention "the Day of the Lord." I have discovered that the Day of the Lord consists of a chain of events that lead up to the coming of Jesus to bring about the kingdom of God on earth. In this regard, the Lord's prayer is relevant to this issue. Notice how the prayer begins,
Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Right off the bat, Jesus wants his followers to turn their concern to the will of the Father and specifically, the coming kingdom. And we learn that whatever that looks like, it involves a moment in our future when the Father will vindicate the holiness of his name. Our very first thought, then, should be our desire that the Father in heaven make his name holy again, which Jesus says, involves the coming kingdom when the Father's will shall be done on earth as it is in heaven.
So what should our second thought be? "Give us this day our daily bread"? I agree, this seems like an abrupt non-sequitur. So I would like to propose another translation of the Greek text, which I believe, fits closer to what Jesus actually meant to say.
give us this day, the bread sufficient for the coming day
What is the coming day? Is Jesus asking us to pray this prayer in the morning so that we might have something to eat for lunch? To answer this, I would like to remind us of what Jesus said about bread when Satan tempted him to turn the stones into bread.
3 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:3-5
Jesus is telling Satan that in order to sustain our life, we need more than bread. We need to pay attention to every word that comes out of the mouth of God. So then, in this context, Jesus likens the teaching of God, which sustains our spiritual existence, to bread that sustains our physical existence. To sustain our life we need both. But if we must go without one or the other, we can go without bread but we can never go without every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
What is the coming day? In the context of the prayer, "the coming day" is the day when God vindicates his holy name. And what we need today, is a particular kind of bread that will sustain us until that day arrives. Therefore, we are not asking for actual bread, we are asking for words that come out of the mouth of God, that will sustain us as we wait for God to bring about his kingdom on earth.
Cooper
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"Yet also; all day long, whatever I’m doing: driving, cleaning, playing with the animals, observing something, searching for something....I have this thought conversation going on with Jesus about everything. It is difficult to put into words, but is just there, familiar and completely “supernaturally natural”... which sounds strange....because “supernatural and natural” are opposite ends of the spectrum." (Taken)
That is the way to be.
@CadyandZoe -
Nice post.
Another claring fact to mention...
Jesus Speaking TO men; YOU men pray in this fashion...
The First word......”OUR”... father...
Notice; Jesus always calls the Father......”MY” Father...(only Jesus came forth OUT from the Father....men came forth out of the Dust of the ground.)
Notice; Jesus is speaking to men who have Converted...who have Confessed that God IS “their Father”.
A single man, by himself, praying the Lords Prayer....still says...”OUR” father... not “MY” Father, which is exclusive to Jesus.
Just mentioning.
Nice post.
Another claring fact to mention...
Jesus Speaking TO men; YOU men pray in this fashion...
The First word......”OUR”... father...
Notice; Jesus always calls the Father......”MY” Father...(only Jesus came forth OUT from the Father....men came forth out of the Dust of the ground.)
Notice; Jesus is speaking to men who have Converted...who have Confessed that God IS “their Father”.
A single man, by himself, praying the Lords Prayer....still says...”OUR” father... not “MY” Father, which is exclusive to Jesus.
Just mentioning.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
It is certainly a prayer that God accepts for sure, how could He not? Keep in mind though why Jesus gave it, and what he said just prior: (Matthew 6:7) . . .When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.
Use your own example as a youth sir, you now mean it when you say it, but putting yourself in God's shoes, if one said the same thing over and over basically it becomes rote. It is all about the sincerity of the heart. If we pour out our heart to Him, He will listen.
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