The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Truther]

Soooo, why are you moving the goal posts?
We were talking about John 8:57-59, where He was speaking for HIMSELF:

John 8:57-59
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Pay attention . . .

I get it, Jesus meant this..,

The words I speak, I speak of myself, but I that dwell in myself, I do the works....

The words I speak are not mine, but mine.

Good ol RCC theology

 

[Truther]

No - He described himself as God HERE:

John 8:57-59
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

I get it, he was inadvertently saying this...

God is me, and they that worship me must worship me in..,,

Good ol RCC theology at work here

 

[Truther]

No - YOU did by misinterpreting what he said.

What should Peter really had said at Pentecost?

Should he and all the others baptize in the titles?

Why did they defy Jesus in Matt 28:19 and say “in the name of Jesus Christ “?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Really?

So Acts 2,8,10 and 19 was not really in the name of Jesus, but titles Father/Son/Holy Ghost?

It's the Baptism OF Jesus,Einstein.
When in doubt - listen to the Master:

Matt. 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY SPIRIT, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

This isn't rocket science, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I get it, Jesus meant this..,
The words I speak, I speak of myself, but I that dwell in myself, I do the works....
The words I speak are not mine, but mine.
Good ol RCC theology

No - Jesus said it pretty explicitly:

John 8:57-59
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

It's all pretty simple, really.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What should Peter really had said at Pentecost?
Should he and all the others baptize in the titles?
Why did they defy Jesus in Matt 28:19 and say “in the name of Jesus Christ “?

They didn't defy Jesus.
YOU just don't get it, that's all.

They Baptized with the Baptism of Christ (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
YOU baptize with the baptism of Oneness heretics . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I get it, he was inadvertently saying this...
God is me, and they that worship me must worship me in..,,
Good ol RCC theology at work here

Actually - that's not what He said at ALL in John 8:58.

Pay attention - He said:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


PS - the word you used above in RED has 5 syllables.
Try not to hurt yourself using it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do Catholics know what the name of the son of God is?

What was the name of the Son of God before he came down from Heaven and took human flesh?

 

[Truther]

What was the name of the Son of God before he came down from Heaven and took human flesh?

The son was reincarnated?

 

[Truther]

Actually - that's not what He said at ALL in John 8:58.

Pay attention - He said:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


PS - the word you used above in RED has 5 syllables.
Try not to hurt yourself using it . . .

God spoke through and did works through the man, Christ Jesus.

And all this time you thought all 3 persons of a so-called trinity acted as a human.

LOL

 

[Truther]

They didn't defy Jesus.
YOU just don't get it, that's all.

They Baptized with the Baptism of Christ (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
YOU baptize with the baptism of Oneness heretics . . .

No, I baptize like these first century "heretics"...

Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


.....join us.

 

[Truther]

No - Jesus said it pretty explicitly:

John 8:57-59
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

It's all pretty simple, really.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

The "I Am" was inside Jesus, speaking through Jesus.


19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Right, God was in Christ.

And all this time you though a Divine Spirit was flesh.

 

[Truther]

It's the Baptism OF Jesus,Einstein.
When in doubt - listen to the Master:

Matt. 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY SPIRIT, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

This isn't rocket science, Einstein . . .

...'in the name of" ...WHOM?

A single name of whom?

What is the name of the son?

Why dont you say the name of the son when you baptize?

Do you think the name of the son of God is "son"?

Would you call Donald Trump "President son" if you met him?

Would you call Jesus Christ "son" if you met him?

Probably.

 

[Ezra]

Because the Pope is seen as an oracle of God.

When God speaks, he speaks. Correct?

no

 

[RogerDC]

The church of Acts is everyone’s plumb line.
You are either part of it or not.
You are not part of it Roger.

You keep talking about exactly imitating the Church described in Acts, yet you can’t tell me what that Church’s doctrines were. You can’t even prove that everything the early Church taught and practised is described in the NT.

I love your conclusion that the true Church doesn’t have a name. That is surely one of the most amusing ideas I’ve ever heard on a Christians forum.

 

[RogerDC]

I consult the Acts church.
I need no other church.

The “Acts church” did not feature individuals believers interpreting Scripture for themselves and inventing their own doctrine. The NT didn’t even exist as a recognized canon at that time, and Church doctrine was decided by a central authority made up of appointed ministers (even Paul was under the control of that central authority).

You live in a dream world of nonsense - the “Acts church” was nothing like your “church”, which is, in effect, nothing more than your (flawed) interpretation of the Scriptures.

Thousands of them to pick from, but only one true Church, found in Acts

Jesus promised that “the gates of hell will not prevail against” his Church, so the Church he founded must still exist today - where can I find it?

 

[RogerDC]

Feeding Jesus’ sheep qualifies us as shepherd also?

Jesus commanded only Peter to “tend” and “feed” his sheep. Any reasonable adult would agree tending and keeping sheep is the role of a shepherd. So Peter was installed by Christ as the Shephard of the Church, through whom the Holy Spirit leads the Church.

He clearly said there was only 1 Shepherd(Himself). He said “My sheep hear my voice”, so now his voice is someone else?

The Church is the “fullness” of Christ (Eph 1:22-23), therefore
(a) the Church shares Christ’s role as Shepherd of the Christian flock; and

(b) the voice of Christ and the voice of the Church are one and the same. Hence, Christ’s sheep follow the voice of the Church.

Think about it - it ain’t rocket science.

 

[RogerDC]

Wasn't Jack Chick one of those entrusted bishops before he bailed on the CC?

Who is Jack Chick?

 

[RogerDC]

Not sure how that answers the question of what the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes is as the CC would explain it

In your opinion, what is the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes"?

There is no spiritual death for a believer

In that case, why does Paul warn BELIEVERS in Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can lead them to hell?
“Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Why will Jesus say to some BELIEVERS,
“I never knew you” (Matt 7:21-23)?
This means those BELIEVERS won’t be saved.

How you applied 1 John 5:16 is only referring to physical death

Really? 1John 5:16 says there are “deadly” sins, and the next verse says “there is sin that is not deadly”. So according to your interpretation, there are sins that cause physical death and sins that don’t cause physical death.
Please provide an example of a sin that causes physical death.
Please provide an example of sin that doesn’t cause physical death.

 

[RogerDC]

That is how you and I are to prove everything by scripture.

I can’t find a scripture that says “prove everything by scripture”.

Doesn't matter who it is ... we have to prove everything with Him by the scripture as kept by those who loved Him & His words in the KJV , and that includes proving or reproving everything the Catholic Church teaches.

No, having faith in Christ means accepting that the Catholic Church is the ultimate earthly authority for Christians - to question its doctrines is to question Christ himself.

Scripture says it is Christ’s CHURCH (not the Scriptures) that equips the “saints (to) attain … the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the statue of the fullness of Christ” (Eph 4:4-16).