The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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RogerDC

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As I have said, that debate is not important to me right now. Your own assurance that if you get the virus and that you might die from it, you know for sure that you are going to the right place.
Surprise, surprise ... when it comes to providing evidence of your idiotic claim, you can't. What a joke.
 

FollowHim

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You wouldn't know.
All I can say is if you are the best response to the RCC's history, you have lost.

Honesty and truth are our standing.
Many protestant communities have a bad record as well, but I will openly admit this.

Take missionaries curing opium addiction with heroin tablets. They did not understand, but it worked, for a short time. Or groups who trust one leader too much, which leads to death.

Our future depends on honesty or we are salt with no saltiness. God bless you.
 

Eternally Grateful

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How can a believer possibly be “saved” before he is judged by Christ, which takes place only after death? Think about it - it ain’t rocket science.

Any verse what appears to say we are saved before Judgement Day shouldn’t be read literally, but in the sense that a believer on the road to being saved. Consider this verse: Jesus said
“anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6).
In this verse, the words, “has eternal life”, doesn’t refer to NOW, because we will all die; rather, it refers to a FUTURE EVENT, when Jesus raises the believer up to eternal life when He comes again. In the same way, if a verse says, “you are saved”, it doesn’t mean we are saved NOW; rather, it refers to a FUTURE EVENT.

And think about this: Go on online-atheist forums and you will find thousands of formerly “saved” Christians who are now atheists - are they still saved? Of course not.
I know a fellow called Danny who experienced a conversion twenty years ago and went around telling everyone he was “saved” (he even got himself a couple of Christian tattoos), but these days, Danny is an atheist - is he still “saved”? Of course not.
There are several former-Christian ministers who became atheists. Are they still “saved”? Of course not.

Please explain this verse:
"I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not therefore acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgement before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God." (1Cor 4:3-5).
To claim that you are already “saved” is to judge yourself, which Paul clearly condemns.
He saved us

that’s gods word. Take it however you will

you seem to have a problem with Gods power. You should be ashamed
 

Eternally Grateful

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What about Romans 4? No doubt you misinterpret it as well.I have no idea what you’re talking about - and I don’t think you do, either. What on earth is “one work” or “2 works”? Sounds like you don’t know what “works” even means.

”James requirement of works”? Huh?

that’s your excuse for everything if it does not agree with you it’s misinterpreted

james said we prove our faith by works

Paul said we are not justified by works period

you have a problem

they either contradict each other, or your misinterpreting one.

don’t put it on me, they both agree with each other with no contradiction in my interpretations

they do not in yours, you figure it out
 
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Eternally Grateful

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So if a believer is tempted to sin, what should he do - give in to the temptation and sin, or fight the temptation and not sin?Wow, it sounds like you don’t even know what “repentance” means! In which case, you need to join the little kiddies in Sunday School and learn the meaning of some very basic Christian concepts - at the moment, you’re clueless.

Repentance is not simply admitting that one is a sinner who is in need of salvation - repentance is doing something about being a sinner - ie, changing one’s CONDUCT by ceasing one’s sinful BEHAVIOUR (have you never read Romans 6?). So since repentance requires an action that involves a change in behaviour, it is “work”. For example, if one is a habitual thief, then repentance means one stops stealing. If one is an habitual fornicator, then repentance means one stops fornicating. To stop stealing or fornicating is “works”.

Being “justified by works” (James 2:24) refers to keeping Christ’s commandments, which includes repentance. When Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to “sin no more”, He was commanding her to repent.
Yawn

this gets old

1. learn what grace is, you do not understand it
2. learn what repent means, you have a “religious” view and not a literal understanding,
3. Romans 4, you can push James forever but until you interpret James correctly, you have no ground to stand on
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Even if Paul’s writing are included, 2Tim 3:16 doesn’t say Scripture is all that is needed for doctrine, but only “profitable” for doctrine.That’s right, so when Paul says “… which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ” (2Tim 3:15), what is he referring to? He was referring to two things :
(a) “what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it” (v.14), and
(b) “the Sacred Writings” (v.15).

(a) is the teaching of the Church and (b) is the teachings of the OT. Notice that the NT is not included in either (a) or (b), yet these two ingredients together are sufficient for “salvation through faith in Christ”.The Catholic Church is the fullness of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) and the “pillar and foundation of the truth” - therefore her doctrines are indeed the inspired work of God.Those are your rules, not God’s. Nowhere in Scripture does it say the word of God is confined to the Bible or that every Church doctrine must be proven by Scripture. The primary source of Christian doctrine is the Church, not the Scriptures - you’ve got your priorities around the wrong way.

Furthermore, what does Eph 4:4-14 say is responsible for the following:
”Until we all meet into the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the fullness of Christ”?
If you answered, “The Bible”, you’d be wrong, because is no mention at all of the Bible in the whole passage. The correct answer is the “apostles … prophets … evangelists … pastors and teachers” - ie, the Church. But people like you have to ignore these verses, as it contradicts your false Sola Scriptura doctrine.
1. It is
2. It says scripture is able to make a man complete. If I am complete. I need nothing else.
end of discussion
 
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mailmandan

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that’s your excuse for everything if it does not agree with you it’s misinterpreted

james said we prove our faith by works

Paul said we are not justified by works period

you have a problem

they either contradict each other, or your misinterpreting one.

don’t put it on me, they both agree with each other with no contradiction in my interpretations

they do not in yours, you figure it out
Amen! James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came through faith.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). *Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* It is through faith "rightly understood in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ's finished work of redemption (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :)

Works-salvationists twist James 2 to teach that we are saved by works. Some may even stress saved by "these" works and just not "those" works.
 
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Truther

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You missed it. Jesus said “call NO MAN your father ON EARTH”. So according to your literal interpretation of the verse, NO MAN ON EARTH can be called father - which included one’s own biological father, does it not?
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself .....



Do you see it yet?
 

Eternally Grateful

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6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself .....



Do you see it yet?
Some people just can’t see. Then proceed to tell you how blind you are
 

mjrhealth

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You could begin your own church, based on what you think are Bible doctrines, and so could any other believer, but there would be points of difference between your church’s doctrines and the doctrines of another church. So which church do I accept has the correct doctrines - yours or someone else’s?
I am aware that I love God and have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and that if I abide in Him until the end I will be judged worthy of eternal life. Which “things of God” am I “ignorant” of?

By the way, I’ve noticed that your posts to me are becoming less and less rational and more and more hateful and insulting towards the Catholic Church. I was wondering if maybe this reason for this is that you’ve been neglecting to take your medication.
What, would you like us all to believe a lie, would you like us all to stand on the side of that is antichrist, the truth it offends, if you are offended than maybe it is time you sought the truth, you wont find it in religion, any of them.

Whats it say

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

thats why when people get offended they attack
 

RogerDC

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What, would you like us all to believe a lie, would you like us all to stand on the side of that is antichrist, the truth it offends, if you are offended than maybe it is time you sought the truth, you wont find it in religion, any of them.

Whats it say

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

thats why when people get offended they attack
You appear to given up trying to answer my questions - probably because you can't and I've exposed flaws in your false doctrines. Instead of admitting defeat, you've resorted to posting senseless drivel. I get the message.
 

RogerDC

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So, you are avoiding my question, but deciding to abuse me instead.
Pray tell, which speech of Pope John Paul II incited Catholics in Sth America to attack Protestants churches? Some details, please. Otherwise, I'll have no choice but to conclude that you're either a fool who will believe anything, or bs-artist who spreads lies.
 

Paul Christensen

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So, you are avoiding my question, but deciding to abuse me instead.
What I am doing with you is to survey with you whether you are an easy believer or not. So, what I need to know is how many of my six questions would you answer "yes" to. You don't have to specify for each question is that embarrasses you, so you have to do is give me a number between 1 and 6 depending on how many questions you can give a positive answer.

You see, the first base of the gospel is to determine whether we are good or not. Catholics and Protestants equally have to come to this determination and either have to face up to the Ten Commandments and to judge their "goodness" on them.
 

Paul Christensen

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Pray tell, which speech of Pope John Paul II incited Catholics in Sth America to attack Protestants churches? Some details, please. Otherwise, I'll have no choice but to conclude that you're either a fool who will believe anything, or bs-artist who spreads lies.
It was probably a link on the previous forum I was involved in. I have watched hundreds of videos and articles over the last couple of years and I know it was true when I watched it. The commentator had no reason to lie about it. But if you want to use this to avoid my honest, simple question about how you rate according to the Ten Commandments which Catholics and Protestants are judged by, then that may signal to me that you prefer to be contentious rather than to have an honest examination which you are an easy believer or not.
 

RogerDC

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1. It is
2. It says scripture is able to make a man complete. If I am complete. I need nothing else.
end of discussion
Where does Scripture explain what the "deadly" and non-"deadly" sins (1John 5:16) are? Can you list them? And what does "deadly" mean in this context?
 

Paul Christensen

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Where does Scripture explain what the "deadly" and non-"deadly" sins (1John 5:16) are? Can you list them? And what does "deadly" mean in this context?
Every time a person breaks one of the Ten Commandments it is a deadly sin, because the Scripture clearly states, "The soul that sins will surely die". This involves every single time from youth onward. At the judgment we won't be judged on our good works, but we will be judged on the times we have broken the Ten Commandments.
 

mjrhealth

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You appear to given up trying to answer my questions - probably because you can't and I've exposed flaws in your false doctrines. Instead of admitting defeat, you've resorted to posting senseless drivel. I get the message.
Ye says someone who denies his churches antichrist past and future. You will never be able to say " I didnt know" because it has being written down since you religions conception. The great harlot,