The Natural Sheep and Goats

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Spiritual Israelite

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The doctrine of millennialism must include the judgement of the sheep and goats.

1. First, we rule out that judgment being of His church at His appearing in the air:

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The judgment of the church occurs at His second coming to this earth, where only the dead bodies of the faithful, and the faithful remaining alive, will be bodily resurrected to meet with Him.

The hypocrites will remain with the unbelievers on earth.

2. Then we show why they are natural people only, and not born again Christians:

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


These righteous sheep had no knowledge of why they are being judged righteous, nor of what they had done to be put on His right hand to live.

The saints know the Lord and know why we continue in well-doing, by purposely obeying the First and Second great commandments.

The saints in Christ Jesus are not ignorant of our good works by faith.

The Lord also speaks of these sheep doing so for the least of His. They were not His, but they were naturally neighborly sinners and sheep, who did good for any people of any faith or unbelief.

The saints are commanded to provide for our own first, which includes our brothers and sisters in the faith: we know in whom we believe, and we know we are commanded to do well for all our neighbors, but especially them of the household of God.

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The naturally neighborly sinners are judged righteous in works only, but not made righteous by the faith of Jesus dwelling within.

Some people speak of all unbelievers, and the inhabitors of the earth, that are not resurrected to meet with the Lord, as being like them before the flood: all wicked continually.

This is plainly not true at His return, where there are sheep and goats. There is a difference on earth between hypocrites, the evil doers, and the neighborly sinners with good works.

Jesus never said the Samaritan was one of His own disciples, nor a believer in Him as the Christ of God. He was only a good example of loving our neighbors as ourselves.

It is a zealot's lack of natural judgment, to declare all unbelievers as wicked evil-doers, without any feeling of affection for their fellow neighbors, nor at least desiring to do good:

Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption.


No hypocrites nor evil-hearted will be there in the beginning: it will be a fresh start with the clean slate of proven good neighbors.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Jesus is not saying these are the saints inheriting the kingdom of Christ living within us, but only that God foreordained there would be natural people living in the kingdom of Christ on earth.

The sheep at the beginning of the Lord's Kingship and kingdom on earth, are not born again saints in Christ Jesus, nor are they inheriting His spiritual kingdom within.

That are simply the good neighborly sinners, that will be the only ones inheriting the right to live on earth under the personal rule of Christ and His saints.

They are not the wicked dead resurrected bodily, to be judged at the great white throne of God.
This is just complete nonsense. Did you somehow miss that it says the sheep will inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34,46)? How can that apply to non-Christians? That is ludicrous. Only Christians (the church) will inherit eternal life when Christ returns. The sheep clearly represent Christians. And the goats clearly represent those whose names are not written in the book of life because Matthew 25:41 is speaking of the same thing as Revelation 20:15.
 
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WPM

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This is just complete nonsense. Did you somehow miss that it says the sheep will inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34,46)? How can that apply to non-Christians? That is ludicrous. Only Christians (the church) will inherit eternal life when Christ returns. The sheep clearly represent Christians. And the goats clearly represent those whose names are not written in the book of life because Matthew 25:41 is speaking of the same thing as Revelation 20:15.

This shows you the exteme folly that Premil produces. It is totally ridiculous. Why are Premils not convicted by the Holy Spirit about this?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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This shows you the exteme folly that Premil produces. It is totally ridiculous.
Absolutely. It's very obvious that the sheep represent those who belong to Christ. Who else will inherit eternal life? This should not be hard to discern.

Why are Premils not convicted by the Holy Spirit about this?
I wish I knew why. Some people just believe what they want to believe and don't really care if they can back it up with scripture or not.
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus is gathering the whole flock out of the nations.

John 10:16
I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.
While personally on the earth as King. Not long distance service.
 

Timtofly

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Premil wrongly portrays a millennium of unparalleled peace and submission to Jesus where the lion and the lamb finally rest together in unity and love and where the glorified saints enjoy final bliss and then bam the slaughter trucks pull up to take these same sheep to Jerusalem for slaughter. How cruel and pointless! Then after a thousand literal years of supposed perfect peace and harmony where Jesus rules with a rod of iron, the millennial inheritors turn en-masse to Satan in their billions as the sand of the sea. It is this false picture and misplacement of Revelation 20 that Premil portrays that doesn't add up.
You realize that is the Word of God you are disrespectful of. Pre-mill did not invent nor add to Scripture that Satan would be loosed after 1,000 years.

Why can you not accept a world where sin and Satan cannot get to humans and their daily lives? How do you think Eve and Adam survived before sin entered the world, and Satan was not around? The Garden of Eden went belly up 75%, and the remaining 25% got murdered. Why are you not ragging on Moses for inventing such a terrible Garden of Eden, and presenting it in the first few chapters of Hebrew Scripture? Are you denying there was peace and submission to God in the Garden of Eden prior to Adam's disobedience?
 

Timtofly

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You may believe that. Amils believe the second coming is future.
Then at the Second Coming, Jesus will set His feet on the mount of Olives, change the whole geographical nature of Jerusalem, per Zechariah 14. He will then set up a throne and temple and separate the sheep from the goats in Jerusalem, because the angels are transporting all these humans to Jerusalem.

The angels are the only means of transportation, as even Amil claim all the works of man have been dissolved in fire. There is literally nothing left of mankind's technology.
 

Truth7t7

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This shows you the exteme folly that Premil produces. It is totally ridiculous. Why are Premils not convicted by the Holy Spirit about this?
I say the same about those that follow and teach reformed preterist eschatology concerning, Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, The Two Witnesses, And The Beast, All Future Literal Events Unfulfilled
 

Timtofly

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Where in the NT does it say that David's throne is on earth? Nowhere! You have a habit of always repeating what you have been taught rather than quoting what Scripture says. The ancient prediction speak about Messianic authority over true Israel. You make the same hyper-literal mistakes that the Pharisees did. You have a wrong concept of the kingship of Christ and a wrong concept of the kingdom of God. You do not comprehend the current heavenly rule over His enemies. Your theology prevents you doing that.

Listen to Peter preaching on Psalm 110:1, when speaking about David and his throne, says, “For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance [referring to Psalms 16:8-10]. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne [referring to Psalms 132:12]; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption [referring to Psalms 16:10]. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand, until I make thy foes thy footstool [referring to Psalm 110:1]. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:25-36).

Peter shows us that Psalm 110:1 is currently being fulfilled since Christ destroyed the power of the grave, and ascended to the right hand of majesty on high. No objective Bible student could fail to see the focus and message of this narrative. This reading is concentrated upon the victory of the resurrection of Christ nearly 2,000 years ago and the resulting current kingly Messianic reign of Christ at “the right hand of God exalted” in heaven. It confirms that Israel’s Messiah now sits enthroned upon David’s throne, and locates the timing of His assumption of the same to after “the resurrection of Christ.” As Messiah, Christ fulfilled every human demand of Him, thus rightfully assuming the kingship of Israel through His impeccable life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection.

Christ taking David’s throne does not refer to Him sitting on some long-preserved literal physical in the Middle East (as non-believing Jews and Premils apply this to in the future), but rather Him assuming heavenly authority over the people of God and fulfilling the Messianic prophecies as Israel’s true king. As we see in the New Testament, the people of God or true Israel does not relate exclusively to a physical race but to spiritual grace on God’s elect. Peter is showing that Christ now reigns over His people in fulfilment of the Old Testament predictions.

Peter ties up his whole argument in Acts 2:36 by saying: “let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Jesus said in Revelation 22:16, “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”

This confession from Christ and this appellation describes both His humanity and His deity in the statement “root and the offspring of David.” In this reading, the Lord reveals a great mystery but yet also a great truth, how He is both before and after king David. (1) He is after David in the sense that He is of his natural “offspring” according to the flesh. However, equally, He is likewise before Him in that He is the spiritual “root of David” (Revelation 5:5, 22:16).

Christ existed before the incarnation. He was the eternal Son of God, and therefore before David. Jesus testified in John 6:62, “ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before.” The Lord testified in John 8:58, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Jesus declared, in His great intercessory petition to His Father, in John 17:5, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Through these we understand the great mystery of the two aspects of Christ’s nature – His humanity and His deity.

We see Christ exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, in Matthew 22:42-46, when He asked, “What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”

Here He employs the Old Testament passage in Psalm 110:1 to impress His point. In His last question, Christ was here specifically referring to the great mystery of His eternal Sonship (or His pre-existence in all eternity) – a truth that evidently perplexed the religious Pharisees. The religious Pharisees had absolutely no grasp of that great truth. They had no comprehension that He was both before and after David. The answer to the enquiry was that He was before David (being the root of David) in His divine office as the eternal Son of God; therefore, David called Him Lord. Nevertheless, He was also his offspring in a natural sense, through the incarnation at Bethlehem, and was therefore a son of David by way of lineage.

He was also revealing the duality of His nature. As the Son of David, He was showing them His humanity, as the Son of God He was revealing His Deity. This discourse also revealed Christ’s eternal Sonship. Notwithstanding, such teaching confused the religious Pharisees. As man, He has assumed the throne of David, as God He has assumed the Father's throne. This is speaking about authority. He has totally fulfilled every demand as man and God and He therefore reigns on high upon the throne of David and His Father's throne.

It is clear from Matthew 22:42-46 that Christ applies this text to Himself thus rightly claiming the dualistic divine offices of king and of priest for Himself. It was still prior to His atoning death and glorious ascent to the throne, but He explicitly draws their eyes towards His person. In doing so, He was also revealing the duality of His nature. As the Son of David, He was showing them His humanity, as the Son of God He was revealing His Deity. This discourse also revealed Christ’s eternal Sonship. Notwithstanding, such teaching confused the religious Pharisees.

A passage often overlooked on this subject is Romans 1:3-4, which declares, “Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared (or exhibited) to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.”

Here we see the duality to the nature of Christ. He was the son of David, but also the Son of God. These two titles are knitted together in the one person. Once again, they see their apex in the resurrection of the Saviour. It does matter how partial one is in their Dispensationalism these passages are irrefutable. There can be no debate from these that Christ has already assumed David’s throne.
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:"

Where does Scripture claim David's throne is someplace else besides Jerusalem?
 
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robert derrick

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It is said by them, that reject the judgment of natural sheep and goats by the Lord on earth, that there can be no such judgment made among unbelievers.

And yet, Abraham argued for the very same thing to spare Sodom:

And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

They say that the only ones on earth, that can be called 'righteous', are only the saints doing righteousness by the faith of God.

And yet, the Lord does not deny the possibility of there being at least 50, 40, 30, 20, or 10 righteous in Sodom, and only one of them is known as a believer in the one true God.
 

robert derrick

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Further proof that men can be called righteous by God, though they be not acknowledged as believers in Himself.

He did so, when He spoke of the righteous, that were by law, and yet not by faith.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

And He also exhorts our righteousness to be greater than their righteousness, being righteous by faith in the law, and not by the law only.

There are many natural-born sheep on earth that are good law abiding citizens, and not wicked evil-doing goats.

The sheep will be spared and remain to now live by the law of the King and Lord on earth.
 

robert derrick

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Even as the naturally righteous and law-abiding, are not all believers in Christ, neither are all the naturally meek on earth, just Christians.

But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

This is prophecy of Scripture confirmed by Jesus, to be fulfilled in His return to this earth.

The Scripture makes no difference between believer or not, because God is not a respecter of persons, and all the meek on earth at His return, shall inherit the earth of His kingdom and rule.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Though only the saints in Christ Jesus are spiritually purified, not all the meek on earth are purified saints, that shall see God in the glory of His kingdom in heaven.

But there will be many naturally-born meek men and women, that will see the risen King and God with His kingdom on the earth, even as Job.

And all that do travel to Jerusalem to see Him, will see also His glorious throne.

Those who say all natural unbelievers, are all wicked, and there is not one meek person among them, is proven false by those on earth, that are meek and neighborly, yet not Christian by faith.

Such zealots are blinded to true judgment, the same as the Pharisees, that ceremonially wash themselves after coming into contact with a Gentile.

These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

First His enemies that openly oppose Him in war, will be slaughtered, and then them that oppose law will be executed, and finally the naturally neighborly and meek sheep will enter into His kingdom on earth, where the King's law will be enforced over all the earth with rods of iron.
 

WPM

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"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:"

Where does Scripture claim David's throne is someplace else besides Jerusalem?

"of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne [referring to Psalms 132:12]; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ."
 

WPM

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Further proof that men can be called righteous by God, though they be not acknowledged as believers in Himself.

He did so, when He spoke of the righteous, that were by law, and yet not by faith.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

And He also exhorts our righteousness to be greater than their righteousness, being righteous by faith in the law, and not by the law only.

There are many natural-born sheep on earth that are good law abiding citizens, and not wicked evil-doing goats.

The sheep will be spared and remain to now live by the law of the King and Lord on earth.

You really do not get it do you? Only Christ was righteous. Those who embrace Him obtain imputed righteousness. Those who possess Him are called "the righteous." What is more, there is no one but Christ who could keep the law.

It is not just your eschatology that is messed up, you cannot even differentiate between the righteous and the wicked. Are you a Roman Catholic, a Mormon or a JW? Romans 10:3-4 says: “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”

Man is a rebel outside of Christ; He doesn’t understand the deep things of God and he does not have the ability to fulfill the high demands of God.

Romans 3:10-12 explains why, saying, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Man by nature will always run from God. He will never come to God. His nature is to rebel against God. When man goes over the natural line of outright rejection of God then he becomes reprobate. This is the end of every man natural. That is why he needs a supernatural intervention where Christ first opens his eyes. When he then sees his awful predicament then he repents and believes.

There is nothing good in him.

Job 15:14-16 says, What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy (or corrupt) is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?”

Isaiah 64:6-7 says, “we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.”

The Bible says in 1 John 1:8-10 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

The unregenerate are unable to hear Christ’s words (John 8:43-44); they are not able to accept nor to understand the things of the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 2:14); they are not able to submit to God's law (Romans 8:7); they are not able to please God (Romans 8:8); they are not able to see the light of the gospel, because they are spiritually blind (2 Corinthians 4:4); they are not able to come to Christ (John 6:44). The Bible says they are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1 and 5).

How much biblical evidence do you need Randy to understand how corrupt the flesh is and how depraved it is?

1. The Bible says that the unsaved (who only have one nature – the flesh) are “ignorant” (Romans 10:3; 1 Corinthians 14:38; Ephesians 4:18; Hebrews 5:2; 2 Peter 3:5) of God and spiritual things.
2. The Bible says that prior to salvation man is a spiritual corpse that is “dead in … sins” (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13).
3. Prior to salvation man is spiritually “blind” (Matthew 13:13, 15-16; 2 Corinthians 4:4).
4. Prior to salvation man is spiritually “deaf” ((Psalm 58:4; Ezekiel 12:2; Matthew 13:13, 15-16).
5. Prior to salvation man is “by nature a child of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3).
6. The Bible says that “the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
7. The Bible says that “they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them” (1 Corinthians 2:14).
8. The Bible saysAll have sinned and come short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23).
9. Prior to salvation one is a spiritual “prisoner” of Satan (Isaiah 14:17, 42:6, 61:1).
10.Prior to salvation one is bound in “chains” of sin (Psalm 68:6, 107:8-16; Isaiah 61:1).
11.Outside of Christ there is “none that seeketh after God” (Romans 3:10).
12.Outside of Christ there is “none righteous” (Romans 3:10).
13.Outside of Christ there is “none that understandeth” (Isaiah 14:20; Romans 3:10).
14.Outside of Christ there is “none that doeth good” (Ecclesiastes 3:12; Romans 3:10).
15.Prior to salvation the unregenerate does not hear the words of Christ (John 8:43-44).
16.Prior to salvation the unregenerate is not able to come to Christ (John 6:44, 64-65).
17.Prior to salvation the unregenerate is not able to submit to God's law (Romans 8:7).
18.Prior to salvation the unregenerate is not able to please God (Romans 8:8).
19.Prior to salvation you were “alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works” (Colossians 1:21).
20.Outside of Christ your “old man” was “corrupt according to the deceitful lusts” (Ephesians 4:22).
21.Outside of Christ you were vain in your imaginations, and your foolish heart was darkened’ (Romans 1:21).
22.Outside of Christ you were ‘walking in the vanity of your mind, Having your understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that was in you, because of the blindness of your heart” (Ephesians 4:17-19).
23. It says, “the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (2 Corinthians 4:4).
24.Outside of Christ the Bible says “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9).
25.The Bible says that outside of Christ “I know nothing by myself” (1 Corinthians 4:4).
26.The unsaved are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).
27.The Bible says that outside of Christ man is “deceived” (Job 12:16, 15:21; Romans 7:11; 2 Timothy 3:13; Titus 3:3; Revelation 18:23, 20:10).
 
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robert derrick

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And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

1. This will begin with the judgment of nations, which will be between the natural meek and law-abiding sheep, and the devilishly wicked, that did not go to war with the gathered armies of the nations at Armageddon.

Not all evil people are willing to fight for their evil, but are cowardly.

2. Zion is always on this earth, and is always called Sion in heaven, and New Jerusalem on the new earth.

3. The natural people travelling to see the Lord for themselves, are the meek and law-abiding people, that desire now to hear and keep His law, rather than that of man in the past.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

It is impossible for these to the be the nations entering New Jerusalem, where there is no such thing as Jew vs Gentile.

These will be the Jews of Jerusalem and the surrounding land from the Nile to Euphrates, and they will be sought after as guides to the temple and throne of the Lord and King over all the earth.
 

WPM

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And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

1. This will begin with the judgment of nations, which will be between the natural meek and law-abiding sheep, and the devilishly wicked, that did not go to war with the gathered armies of the nations at Armageddon.

Not all evil people are willing to fight for their evil, but are cowardly.

2. Zion is always on this earth, and is always called Sion in heaven, and New Jerusalem on the new earth.

3. The natural people travelling to see the Lord for themselves, are the meek and law-abiding people, that desire now to hear and keep His law, rather than that of man in the past.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

It is impossible for these to the be the nations entering New Jerusalem, where there is no such thing as Jew vs Gentile.

These will be the Jews of Jerusalem and the surrounding land from the Nile to Euphrates, and they will be sought after as guides to the temple and throne of the Lord and King over all the earth.

You are all over the place. When your theology is exposed on one subject and one text, you just move on to another. When that is exposed, you move onto another text and subject.

When did "the last days" begin? When do they finish? When is "the last day"?
 
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robert derrick

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And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This will be the Lord and King's reign over nations, after His return to this earth.

Those who say these nations after the Lord's return, must be the nations of upon the new earth, since they teach the old earth is done away at His return, Then they must also acknowledge those nations did learn war on the new earth, and there were weapons of war, that needed be made into instruments of peacefulness.

I.e. the new earth will need the same reformation, that is supposed to be prophesied only for this old earth.

In order to do away with the Lord's reign over nations on this earth, they make the new earth no better than the old one.

They make a distinction without a difference, between the old and new earths.

This is what happens when Scriptures begin to be symbolized into nothing, rather than not take them for real.

The old and new earth becomes nothing but symbology, with nothing really different between them.

Oh what empty webs we weave, when we first begin to symbolize away what we don't want to believe.
 

WPM

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And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This will be the Lord and King's reign over nations, after His return to this earth.

Those who say these nations after the Lord's return, must be the nations of upon the new earth, since they teach the old earth is done away at His return, Then they must also acknowledge those nations did learn war on the new earth, and there were weapons of war, that needed be made into instruments of peacefulness.

I.e. the new earth will need the same reformation, that is supposed to be prophesied only for this old earth.

In order to do away with the Lord's reign over nations on this earth, they make the new earth no better than the old one.

They make a distinction without a difference, between the old and new earths.

This is what happens when Scriptures begin to be symbolized into nothing, rather than not take them for real.

The old and new earth becomes nothing but symbology, with nothing really different between them.

Oh what empty webs we weave, when we first begin to symbolize away what we don't want to believe.

The redeemed of all nations that come into the kingdom of God no longer “lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." They have experienced true peace and have been reconciled unto a holy God. As a consequence, their weapons of war have been made redundant; they now operate with the tools of peace. Former enemies are miraculously reconciled “in Christ” through the blood of Jesus. The prince of peace has affected a supernatural change by way of conversion. Out goes the old and in comes the new. What was once used to destroy others has been supernaturally changed to bless others. Ancient enemies are unified within God’s great spiritual kingdom. They enter into heaven's peace.

Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 fit perfectly with the Amillennial concept of the kingdom but totally contradicts the Premillennial idea. Firstly, there are no wicked in our kingdom and there are no physical wars involved or allowed in our kingdom. It is a spiritual kingdom that is inhabited solely by God’s people and who eternally enters into the peace of God. Secondly, Amils believe Jesus ushered "the last days" 2000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ and will continue until "the last day" when Jesus comes. Premils invent another last days that suits their theology after the last day is finished.
 

robert derrick

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"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:"

Where does Scripture claim David's throne is someplace else besides Jerusalem?
It is simplicity like this, that destroys all the great scholarly words of people, who do not want teaching to be simple as written Scripture.

This is why only the innocent little children, that have yet to learn grand theological dissertations, sprinkled liberally with scholar-speak, will learn the simple truth and doctrine of Christ.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The throne of David is not the throne of God in glory of heaven.

It is Christ that will sit on David's throne on earth.

It is not David that is sitting on God's throne in heaven.

God's throne is not now renamed the throne of David, but rather the throne of God and the Lamb.
 

WPM

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It is simplicity like this, that destroys all the great scholarly words of people, who do not want teaching to be simple as written Scripture.

This is why only the innocent little children, that have yet to learn grand theological dissertations, sprinkled liberally with scholar-speak, will learn the simple truth and doctrine of Christ.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


The throne of David is not the throne of God in glory of heaven.

It is Christ that will sit on David's throne on earth.

It is not David that is sitting on God's throne in heaven.

God's throne is not now renamed the throne of David, but rather the throne of God and the Lamb.

More avoidance. That is your MO.

"of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne [referring to Psalms 132:12]; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ."
 
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