The Rapture Is in Olivet Discourse

[No Pre-TB]

Truly, Christ did say “I will raise him up at the last day.” It isn’t the last day when 7 years remain (Pre-TB). It isn’t the last day when 42 MO’s remain (Pre-Wrath).

Take some time and study Esther, Noah and Lot, Rahab for enlightenment. All were saved on the last day; the selfsame day came destruction

Edit: Have any of you ever thought if it is the “last day”, what comes after it but a new one. If it is new, the old is removed and tossed away. But what can be newer than a new heaven and new earth where Christ reigns? Because we are told all must be shaken on heaven and earth so those things shakable can be removed in order to set up new things for his kingdom.

 

[Truth7t7]

I can address the last day references as pertaining to the order for which the resurrection will take place; Christ the firstfruits, and then they that are Christ's at His coming, and then the Great White Throne Judgment.

One cannot say there is only one resurrection to be at the Great White Throne Judgment because they that are Christ's at His coming are resurrected before the rest of the dead are, which is later on at the Great White Throne Judgment when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:1-15

That so called "first resurrection" will be after Christ defeated the world's armies and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years; which places Him on earth after that great battle as His feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives when He returns with the raptured saints. Zechariah 14:1-5

So the "first resurrection" is explained in Revelation 20:5 as not meaning the first & only resurrection as if denying the rapture event, but that this particular resurrection was to take place "first" before the rest of the dead are later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

That also means that Jesus is not meeting "they that are Christ's at His coming" in the air when He is already on earth after having defeated the world's armies & Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.

This is why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready or else, in the times we are living in now. Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 & Luke 21:33-36

There can be no believer that would be tempted to love this life more at the end of the great tribulation to not want to leave it Luke 14:15-24 when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them by the sword & hunger when they need the mark to buy & sell to survive in that new world order.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 7:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So the warnings applies to us now when apostasy abounds for why God is judging His House first at the rapture event as the Bridegroom before He comes back as the King of kings to judge the world in establishing His kingdom in the new heaven and new earth.

When Jesus Christ Returns Its (The End), Read It Again And Again, (Then Cometh The End)

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Olivet discourse is Matthew 24:1-25:46. So let us apply your belief that believers are suppose to go through the great tribulation until Christ comes at the very end of the great tribulation when He defends Jerusalem when the world's armies will be marching against it.

Now imagine how bad that will be for believers at the end of the great tribulation when supposedly the beast has been waging war on the saints.

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How can a believer not watch? Why would Jesus even bother to warn believers to be ready or else then? Jesus describes a world that the saints will be living in as not like the end of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

I've heard Matthew 24 used to support the rapture fallacy before, but that ignores what Jesus taught in chapter 13 of the same gospel.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:40-42
If there's a "rapture" at the end of the age, it's of those who offend and practice lawlessness, but they aren't raptured into Christ's presence. They're cast into the furnace of fire.
That doesn't sound like a good place to me.
Scripture always agrees with itself and you can't change its meaning to ease your fears.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Do you know what makes for the protracted debates about such topics as this and all the others posted on CB and every Christian discussion forum?

The Bible. And but two camps. Those who read the Bible and know what it says.

And those dedicated to opposing what is written. In an effort to get the first camp to change their mind.

 

[GEN2REV]

Do you know what makes for the protracted debates about such topics as this and all the others posted on CB and every Christian discussion forum?

The Bible. And but two camps. Those who read the Bible and know what it says.

And those dedicated to opposing what is written. In an effort to get the first camp to change their mind.

Couldn't agree more.

Although I will add one more camp; albeit I truly believe it is in the stark minority.

That is the camp of those who are truly naive. Those who have been fooled by church pastors and/or those who have been specifically taught False Doctrine with the intent of them going out and spreading it.

Like I said, though, I truly believe those are the minority in these long, ongoing, debates.

"When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or he will cease being honest."
-Anonymous

The majority of those who fight tooth and nail in Christian Forums FOR False Doctrine know full well they are lying and will return repeatedly to points that have already been very skillfully and articulately vanquished, by multiple people, over and over. They will also accuse you of doing exactly the nonsense they are doing; that's witchcraft 101.

They're all liars and hypocrites; just like their father.

 

[GEN2REV]

I've heard Matthew 24 used to support the rapture fallacy before, but that ignores what Jesus taught in chapter 13 of the same gospel.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:40-42
If there's a "rapture" at the end of the age, it's of those who offend and practice lawlessness, but they aren't raptured into Christ's presence. They're cast into the furnace of fire.
That doesn't sound like a good place to me.
Scripture always agrees with itself and you can't change its meaning to ease your fears.

Not only the Tares will be burned, but also those who were once IN CHRIST who were led astray by the wiles of the enemy and their acceptance of sins, which stunts the growth of their spiritual fruits.

John 15:2
John 15:6

 

[Truth7t7]

Couldn't agree more.

Although I will add one more camp; albeit I truly believe it is in the stark minority.

That is the camp of those who are truly naive. Those who have been fooled by church pastors and/or those who have been specifically taught False Doctrine with the intent of them going out and spreading it.

Like I said, though, I truly believe those are the minority in these long, ongoing, debates.

"When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken, or he will cease being honest."
-Anonymous

The majority of those who fight tooth and nail in Christian Forums FOR False Doctrine know full well they are lying and will return repeatedly to points that have already been very skillfully and articulately vanquished, by multiple people, over and over. They will also accuse you of doing exactly the nonsense they are doing; that's witchcraft 101.

They're all liars and hypocrites; just like their father.

I fully agree, blind sheeples, followers parroting others teachings

This is why C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference bible was so big, all his notes were in the margins, anybody who had a copy was the instant prophecy teacher, puffed up, parroting Scofield and his teachings, and it's not changed today

I followed dispensationalism for 20 years, shouting amen from the pew, I didnt have a clue who John N. Darby or C.I. Scofield was, I trusted those behind the pulpits, my ignorance and mistake

The scripture God used was 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that showed the (man of sin) would be revealed to the church, this was at least a mid trib explanation, removing the pre-trib teaching, my eyes were opened to the false teachings in dispensationalism

 

[GEN2REV]

I fully agree, blind sheeples, followers parroting others teachings

This is why C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference bible was so big, all his notes were in the margins, anybody who had a copy was the instant prophecy teacher, puffed up, parroting Scofield and his teachings, and it's not changed today

I followed dispensationalism for 20 years, shouting amen from the pew, I didnt have a clue who John N. Darby or C.I. Scofield was, I trusted those behind the pulpits, my ignorance and mistake

The scripture God used was 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that showed the (man of sin) would be revealed to the church, this was at least a mid trib explanation, removing the pre-trib teaching, my eyes were opened to the false teachings in dispensationalism

Were you a Bible reader all those years, or was it when you first started really getting into the Bible that your eyes were opened?

I find so many church-goers are, to this very day, in the same boat you were simply because they're taking another man's word for the fate of their soul. Once they begin actually reading God's Word, His power opens their eyes, hopefully.

 

[Truth7t7]

Were you a Bible reader all those years, or was it when you first started really getting into the Bible that your eyes were opened?

I find so many church-goers are, to this very day, in the same boat you were simply because they're taking another man's word for the fate of their soul. Once they begin actually reading God's Word, His power opens their eyes, hopefully.

Yes I sat back in the pew comfortable believing their teachings without doing biblical research on the claims, let alone who the foundations were in the teachings

Just a mention, the popular teaching regarding Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years, in a weeks of years teaching was found to be rooted in occultist "Sir Issac Newton" 1726

Newton was a brilliant man, and part of the royal society in England, sorta like a secret org similar to the Freemasons

Newton was given over to occultism, Kabbalah, Alchemy, Rosicrucianism, etc

Newton was very interested in biblical numerology, and in his book (Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John) in chapter 10 is the standard teaching today concerning Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years, and those following the teachings today dont have a clue that the occultist Newton is their forerunner

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes I sat back in the pew comfortable believing their teachings without doing biblical research on the claims, let alone who the foundations were in the teachings

Just a mention, the popular teaching regarding Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years, in a weeks of years teaching was found to be rooted in occultist "Sir Issac Newton" 1726

Newton was a brilliant man, and part of the royal society in England, sorta like a secret org similar to the Freemasons

Newton was given over to occultism, Kabbalah, Alchemy, Rosicrucianism, etc

Newton was very interested in biblical numerology, and in his book (Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John) in chapter 10 is the standard teaching today concerning Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years, and those following the teachings today dont have a clue that the occultist Newton is their forerunner

Yes, the aspects of that particular prophecy have never really lined up with scripture for me so I've never gotten too involved with it.

 

[Christ4Me]

I've heard Matthew 24 used to support the rapture fallacy before, but that ignores what Jesus taught in chapter 13 of the same gospel.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:40-42
If there's a "rapture" at the end of the age, it's of those who offend and practice lawlessness, but they aren't raptured into Christ's presence. They're cast into the furnace of fire.
That doesn't sound like a good place to me.
Scripture always agrees with itself and you can't change its meaning to ease your fears.

Actually, not every saved believer will be raptured for why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else, but even though left behind ( excommunicated for being in iniquity which denies Him per Titus 1:16 ) for why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, they are still a part of that kingdom of heaven. If you consider Esau selling his birthright for a meal and the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living, you may sense the grievance in the loss of their first inheritance to be that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Below in part of that Olivet Discourse is this parable;

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

That means in spite of the foolish for missing out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom, they are still in that kingdom of heaven, because that kingdom of heaven is likened unto those ten virgins even though five were foolish..

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Actually, not every saved believer will be raptured for why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else, but even though left behind ( excommunicated for being in iniquity which denies Him per Titus 1:16 ) for why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, they are still a part of that kingdom of heaven. If you consider Esau selling his birthright for a meal and the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living, you may sense the grievance in the loss of their first inheritance to be that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Below in part of that Olivet Discourse is this parable;

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

That means in spite of the foolish for missing out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom, they are still in that kingdom of heaven, because that kingdom of heaven is likened unto those ten virgins even though five were foolish..

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I'm familiar with any verse you might find in scripture, but none of them have anything to do with a "secret rapture" as there is no such doctrine described either explicitly or implicitly in scripture, just poor interpretation of the passages about the 1st resurrection, the return of Christ, the last trump, and the gathering up of the tares (the seed of Satan sown throughout the world.)
The "secret rapture" doctrine is no more than another version of gnosticism, a heresy nearly as old as the church.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Not only the Tares will be burned, but also those who were once IN CHRIST who were led astray by the wiles of the enemy and their acceptance of sins, which stunts the growth of their spiritual fruits.

John 15:2
John 15:6

I can believe that, but it's a mistake to equate the furnace of fire with hell. Deep affliction in the old testament is compared to a refining process where metal is purified.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel 12:9-10

There is a rule for purification in the law of Moses and it represents a spiritual principle.
21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone to the battle, “This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses: 22 Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin, and the lead, 23 everything that can endure fire, you shall put through the fire, and it shall be clean; and it shall be purified with the water of purification. But all that cannot endure fire you shall put through water. 24 And you shall wash your clothes on the seventh day and be clean, and afterward you may come into the camp.” Numbers 31:21-24
It's a mistake to read the ordinances and dismiss them as simple ritual as they are a shadow and pattern of things in the heavens or of spiritual principles. Even the purification of the Earth is recognized in these terms, first by water in the flood, finally by fire when judgment comes once more upon a violently rebellious humanity.

 

[Christ4Me]

I'm familiar with any verse you might find in scripture, but none of them have anything to do with a "secret rapture" as there is no such doctrine described either explicitly or implicitly in scripture, just poor interpretation of the passages about the 1st resurrection, the return of Christ, the last trump, and the gathering up of the tares (the seed of Satan sown throughout the world.)
The "secret rapture" doctrine is no more than another version of gnosticism, a heresy nearly as old as the church.

It would be better to tell me how you apply Mattew 25:1-13 to mean to show me that it has nothing to do with the rapture for why Jesus is warning believers through out that Olivet Discourse to be ready or else. You know, for the progress of our discussion as we hope the Lord ministers to both of us in growing in the knowledge of Him.

 

[michaelvpardo]

It would be better to tell me how you apply Mattew 25:1-13 to mean to show me that it has nothing to do with the rapture for why Jesus is warning believers through out that Olivet Discourse to be ready or else. You know, for the progress of our discussion as we hope the Lord ministers to both of us in growing in the knowledge of Him.

There is no rapture in those verses, but they do represent the idea that those without the Spirit of the Lord are outside His protection. The Lord is like Noah's ark, a shelter for those who enter in, a shelter from the flood of ungodliness in a world turning away from God to worship the creation rather than the creator, the beast (which is what humanity is without God.)
Society is turning toward every pleasure, the fulfillment of every lust, to violence, murder, theft, deceptions, every manner of evil in which men find self gratification of our most base nature. The only escape is obedience to Christ.

The 10 virgins of the parable are chaste, but 5 are without oil for their lamps. The ancient inhabitants of Palestine burned olive oil in their lamps. Olive oil had many uses, but in scripture it was the primary ingredient for the oil of anointing. In scripture the anointing was representative of the power of the Holy Spirit resting on priests, prophets, and kings. In the context of the parable, only those with the oil found entry into the kingdom of heaven. You must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. You must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the oil, in order to enter in.
Jesus taught about recieving Him as the One sent by God, and recieving One like Him after His departure, the Holy Spirit that He would send. He never taught about anyone being taken away, except to judgment.

There are churches with His Spirit and there are dead churches devoid of His Spirit. You either know Him or you don’t. You've either accepted Him as Lord, or you haven't. You've either believed His word and prayed to the Father for His Spirit, or You've chosen to reject His word for the doctrines of carnal men devoid of His indwelling presence.

The Lord never taught any kind of escapism, but the very opposite, to pick up your own cross, the instrument of cruel death, and to follow Him.

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:25-26

The only rapture in the teaching of our Lord is the resurrected life in His presence, putting to death the flesh by the power of His Spirit and rising to new life in Him so that you can partake of His gifts and agree with the Apostle Paul, " to live is Christ and to die is gain."

Escapism and fear is not of God, but of the devil.
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Hebrews 2:14-16

I suppose that the fundamental question you must ask yourself, and this is true of all that hold to escapist doctrines, is "are you yet a slave to the fear of death, or has Christ set you free?"

27 “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. Matthew 10:27-29

The cults profit from fear mongering, being partakers in the power of the devil, but perfect love casts out fear.
Is Christ's love perfected in you?
If so, why then cling to cowardly lies taught by those who would consume you?

 

[Christ4Me]

There is no rapture in those verses, but they do represent the idea that those without the Spirit of the Lord are outside His protection. The Lord is like Noah's ark, a shelter for those who enter in, a shelter from the flood of ungodliness in a world turning away from God to worship the creation rather than the creator, the beast (which is what humanity is without God, ) Society is turning toward every pleasure, the fulfillment of every lust, to violence, murder, theft, deceptions, every manner of evil in which men find self gratification of our most base nature. The only escape is obedience to Christ.

Thank you for replying. However, I have to ask you, do you believe Noah's ark and the global flood was a true story? Do you also believe Sodom & Gomorrah that git destroyed was also a true story? Then why would you apply that to mean a metaphorical message instead of an escape from earth?

The 10 virgins of the parable are chaste, but 5 are without oil for their lamps. .... In the context of the parable, only those with the oil found entry into the kingdom of heaven. You must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. You must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the oil, in order to enter in.

Thank you for sharing, but I disagree. It is those with the oil that lit their lamps when the Bridegroom had come was why they were ready whereas the others had to go to the market to get the oil. When they arrived at the door, they were too late. They have the oil, but too late. So the message here is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready to go or else miss out on the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

I believe the point about the oil for why they were out to the market is referring to those who believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation thus seen as out to the market whereas those that are ready, knowing they are always Spirit-filled since salvation, shall have their faith & thus their light shing when the Bridegroom comes.

Although those shut out are still part of the kingdom of Heaven as Matthew 25:1-2 addressed them as such, they missed out on the reception in that kingdom of Heaven. This is what they get for being workers of iniquity, denying Him as if they need to go out to the market to continue to get the oil, for why they were not ready to go to face that fire coming on a third of the earth that Jesus ( Luke 12:40-49 ) & Peter ( 2 Peter 3:3-18 ) & John had warned about in Revelation 8:7-13.

Jesus taught about recieving Him as the One sent by God, and recieving One like Him after His departure, the Holy Spirit that He would send. He never taught about anyone being taken away, except to judgment.

Luke 17:26-37 in the KJV has a different message as opposing the ESV that you can compare here at Luke 17:26-37 KJV;ESV - And as it was in the days of Noe, so - Bible Gateway

Vultures would give a different message than eagles, for why you would think the bad guys are the ones being taken away, but let us consider the Greek.

Go to Strong's Concordance at this site to see the Greek in blue in parallel with the words in English in the KJV & go to Luke 17:37 The left column you will have to scroll down to select on 17 in Luke and it should bring it up on the main page. Then scroll down to the last verse. You can click on the blue words in Greek to see various definitions underneath the main page.

The last Greek word aetos is defined as "from the same as ahr - aer 109; an eagle (from its wind-like flight):--eagle.'

But that long Greek word before that last one, is "sunago" ad it is defined as "from sun - sun 4862 and agw - ago 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably):--+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in."

So the good guys are being taken in while those left behind on earth as far as that third part of the earth ( the western hemisphere ) will die. I discern this with Him, for why the rest of the world's armies in prophesy are still around in marching against Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation.

I do not like how KJV dd not really convey that truth in translating the Greek to English, but modern Bibles have not done it better. Indeed, you & I get the opposite message for why He is warning believers to be ready to go or else. Otherwise, why warn us if only the bad guys are being taken?

There are churches with His Spirit and there are dead churches devoid of His Spirit.

But Jesus never said that about the 7 Churches in Revelation. And so one cannot say that about any church or any believer on earth. We have been warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us Ephesians 4:30 & warned not to defile the temple of God with iniquity or works of the flesh ( heresy is one ) or else be denied by Him from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven & to die left behind 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25.

Important note; ESV switched out the word defile with destroy as if man destroys the temple of God, but it is man that defiles the temple of God for why God would destroy it, physical death, while the spirit is saved ( compare at this link : 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV;ESV - According to the grace of God which is - Bible Gateway ) & shall be with the Lord in heaven waiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

 

[Enoch111]

The "secret rapture" doctrine is no more than another version of gnosticism, a heresy nearly as old as the church.

That is a complete misrepresentation. The only reason why the word "secret" is connected to "rapture" is because the Resurrection/Rapture is (a) strictly for the saints and (b) it occurs in nanoseconds ("in the twinkling of an eye"). So for all practical purposes it is hidden from the world at large -- hence "secret". Just like the rapture of Enoch: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

[Christ4Me]

That is a complete misrepresentation. The only reason why the word "secret" is connected to "rapture" is because the Resurrection/Rapture is (a) strictly for the saints and (b) it occurs in nanoseconds ("in the twinkling of an eye"). So for all practical purposes it is hidden from the world at large -- hence "secret". Just like the rapture of Enoch: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Scripture does not depict the rapture as a secret. After the Bridegroom has come and gone for all the world to see Matthew 24:29-31, 3 angels are sent to set up the hour of temptation to try all upon the earth, Revelation 14:1-11 as everyone will know the gospel, that fire on the third of the earth happens for the whole world to know; fallen USA Babylon, as heralded by the 2nd angel, and the third angel warns every one of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire.

The appearing of the Bridegroom will be etched in every one's memory along with the gospel, but that fiery calamity on the third of the earth, will set up the new world order and the mark of the beast system to buy & sell to survive, that those without His seal will be tempted to take while the beast wages war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they will not tale the mark to buy & sell.

The reality of that is why I believe Jesus is warning us in these latter days when faith is hard to find and apostasy abounds, to be ready now or else, because those warnings will hardly be applied to the end of the great tribulation when the world's armies are marching against Jerusalem.

 

[michaelvpardo]

"Thank you for replying. However, I have to ask you, do you believe Noah's ark and the global flood was a true story? Do you also believe Sodom & Gomorrah that git destroyed was also a true story? Then why would you apply that to mean a metaphorical message instead of an escape from earth?"

The parable is a parable. All parables are metaphors that teach a spiritual truth. The stories of the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah were real events. They both occurred on Earth and no one was "raptured" to escape them.​

"Thank you for sharing, but I disagree. It is those with the oil that lit their lamps when the Bridegroom had come was why they were ready whereas the others had to go to the market to get the oil. When they arrived at the door, they were too late. They have the oil, but too late. So the message here is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready to go or else miss out on the Marriage Supper in Heaven."

Disagree all you want, but Jesus identified the parable as being like the kingdom of heaven, not the marriage Supper of the Lamb. That's an addition to the word of God to create a fiction.
​

"I believe the point about the oil for why they were out to the market is referring to those who believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation thus seen as out to the market whereas those that are ready, knowing they are always Spirit-filled since salvation, shall have their faith & thus their light shing when the Bridegroom comes."

This sounds reasonable but the parable is about entering the kingdom of heaven, not about the marriage Supper of the Lamb. Jesus spoke this parable to those outside the faith as with all His parables.

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Matthew 13:10-11​

"Although those shut out are still part of the kingdom of Heaven as Matthew 25:1-2 addressed them as such, they missed out on the reception in that kingdom of Heaven. This is what they get for being workers of iniquity, denying Him as if they need to go out to the market to continue to get the oil, for why they were not ready to go to face that fire coming on a third of the earth that Jesus ( Luke 12:40-49 ) & Peter ( 2 Peter 3:3-18 ) & John had warned about in Revelation 8:7-13."

This whole argument is based upon the notion that Christ divides the church into 2 sets of saints, the super duper really faithful ones, and the unfaithful ones left behind to minister to a dying world, a complete and biblically unsupportable fantasy. When the Apostle says that the dead in Christ will rise first and that those who are alive will be changed in an instant to meet them in the air, that's because there is one body of Christ, not 5 or 10. The idea of separate tribulation saints is pure fiction to justify the cowardice of fearful men who have no place in the city of God.​

"Luke 17:26-37 in the KJV has a different message as opposing the ESV that you can compare here at Luke 17:26-37 KJV;ESV - And as it was in the days of Noe, so - Bible Gateway

Vultures would give a different message than eagles, for why you would think the bad guys are the ones being taken away, but let us consider the Greek.
Go to Strong's Concordance at this site to see the Greek in blue in parallel with the words in English in the KJV & go to Luke 17:37 The left column you will have to scroll down to select on 17 in Luke and it should bring it up on the main page. Then scroll down to the last verse. You can click on the blue words in Greek to see various definitions underneath the main page.
The last Greek word aetos is defined as "from the same as ahr - aer 109; an eagle (from its wind-like flight):--eagle.'"

I own a hard copy of Strong's Concordance and I haven't found an online version that gives the same definitions.
I've known for over 20 years that the correct translation is "where the body is, there the Vultures are gathered".
This is because faith is derived from hearing and believing the scripture. Power is derived from believing the promises of God and praying according to His will.
If you don't believe scripture, you will remain without His power to do anything, but this is the prophetic fate of the Holy people.

“For the Lord will judge His people
And have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone,
And there is no one remaining, bond or free. Deuteronomy 32:36
(I recommend that every Christian study the song of Moses. It gives a God's eye view of redemptive history as it pertains to Israel and the church.)
​

"But that long Greek word before that last one, is "sunago" ad it is defined as "from sun - sun 4862 and agw - ago 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably):--+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in."
So the good guys are being taken in while those left behind on earth as far as that third part of the earth ( the western hemisphere ) will die. I discern this with Him, for why the rest of the world's armies in prophesy are still around in marching against Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation."

The kingdom of God on Earth is the body of Christ, a fellowship of believers meant to support each other and rejoice in His grace. You don't have to be removed from the Earth to do that. You just have to join a congregation of Spirit filled believers and worship God with them. The real experience is rapturous, the fake is tedious.
​

"I do not like how KJV dd not really convey that truth in translating the Greek to English, but modern Bibles have not done it better. Indeed, you & I get the opposite message for why He is warning believers to be ready to go or else. Otherwise, why warn us if only the bad guys are being taken?"

You're missing the obvious. Jesus was addressing Jews, not Christians, in all of His teachings, and His warnings were nearly all about hypocrisy and self deception. His opposition was not from the mob that followed Him, but from the religious leaders who taught one thing and did another.​

"But Jesus never said that about the 7 Churches in Revelation. And so one cannot say that about any church or any believer on earth. We have been warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit in us Ephesians 4:30 & warned not to defile the temple of God with iniquity or works of the flesh ( heresy is one ) or else be denied by Him from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven & to die left behind 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25."

All the New Testament books were written to the church specifically except the book of Hebrews (which was written to Hebrew believers as opposed to gentiles), and the gospels.
Context is everything in the sound exegesis of scripture and in the book of the Revelation, Jesus specifically addresses the church, not unbelieving Jews or gentiles.
There is no point in warning the church to be ready for His return when the premise of our communion ordinance is to remember His sacrifice for us until He returns. Do you see how much you've missed just by believing one cultic doctrine?
​

"Important note; ESV switched out the word defile with destroy as if man destroys the temple of God, but it is man that defiles the temple of God for why God would destroy it, physical death, while the spirit is saved ( compare at this link : 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV;ESV - According to the grace of God which is - Bible Gateway ) & shall be with the Lord in heaven waiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation."

I'm sorry, but I can't decipher this grammatical mine field. That's the spirit of error in conflict with the Holy Spirit and this seems to happen every time a believer in Christ tries to use scripture to justify error.
Keep studying brother and :
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths." Proverbs 3:5-6
​

 

[michaelvpardo]

That is a complete misrepresentation. The only reason why the word "secret" is connected to "rapture" is because the Resurrection/Rapture is (a) strictly for the saints and (b) it occurs in nanoseconds ("in the twinkling of an eye"). So for all practical purposes it is hidden from the world at large -- hence "secret". Just like the rapture of Enoch: By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Not at all. It's called secret, because it is not found explicitly taught anywhere in scripture, but is a "clever" wresting of unrelated verses to produce a carnally derived doctrine that appeals to fear and cowardice in the face of ungodly persecution and suffering.
I understand now how you can believe the Lord, but still get so many things confused. Your understanding will never grow beyond the lie you accept as true. Don't worry though brother, the Lord will open your understanding as long as you're willing to hear Him. I once believed the same foolishness, but I was young then and not at all prepared for the cross. I still have a phobia about heights, but I don't fear death, and God can teach me the hard things now. His will be done. Amen.