The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?

[marks]

Deuteronomy 4:26-31 KJV
26) I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27) And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.
28) And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29) But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30) When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31) (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Much love!

 

[07-07-07]

I believe Matthew 25 is describing those Christians (wise) who will be taken and those Christians (foolish) who won’t.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I believe Matthew 25 is describing those Christians (wise) who will be taken and those Christians (foolish) who won’t.

I probably wouldn't worry about making doctrine out of the parables. I've tried to show how the virgins demonstrate the need to BUY OIL just before the second coming. Though it has seemed to work for me financially, if I'm correct about the timing, I doubt there's much time remaining to enjoy my winnings.

I wonder if Jesus is using the word "virgin" in Matthew 25 the same symbolic way that it's used in Revelation 14.

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.
​

If that's the case both the wise and the foolish will get to go:

"It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.​

Whosoever shall call out on the Name of the Lord at that time, shall be saved.

But the "taken" are the lost. They are taken to where the vultures gather to eat them.

The "left" are left unharmed, left alive. At that time their redemption draweth nigh. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

But the main thing is I wouldn't worry about HOW it's going to happen, my concern is WHEN it's going to happen. Not becoming drowsy when our Master is delayed.

I'm sure that whatever actually is going to take place, none of God's People, all the Tribes of Israel, are not going to be disappointed.

When the Rapture comes that is.

Waiting Till The Rapture Come.

Old man Jonah sittin' in his chair got no teeth and he got no hair
He got no daughter and he got no son
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

He never did marry and he never went far
Never bought a house or a big ole car
But he ain't no beggar and he sure ain't dumb
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
Heaven gonna call him away
But until that day

Old man Jonah's got an old brass horn
He's had it since the day that he was reborn
But he ain't gonna blow for just anyone
He's gonna wait till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Oh, Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
And heaven gonna take him away
But until that day

Preacher come a-walkin' down that country mile
He said, "Hey Jo you know it's been a while"
But Jonah keep his eyes on the settin' sun
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
Heaven gonna call him away
But until that day

Oh, go come, come rapture come
I said, come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Said, come, come, come, come rapture come
Well, come on in now
Come and take me away Lord
Come and take me away Lord
Come and take me away Lord

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Davy]

I probably wouldn't worry about making doctrine out of the parables. I've tried to show how the virgins demonstrate the need to BUY OIL just before the second coming. Though it has seemed to work for me financially, if I'm correct about the timing, I doubt there's much time remaining to enjoy my winnings.

I wonder if Jesus is using the word "virgin" in Matthew 25 the same symbolic way that it's used in Revelation 14.

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.
​

If that's the case both the wise and the foolish will get to go:

"It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.​

Whosoever shall call out on the Name of the Lord at that time, shall be saved.

But the "taken" are the lost. They are taken to where the vultures gather to eat them.

The "left" are left unharmed, left alive. At that time their redemption draweth nigh. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

But the main thing is I wouldn't worry about HOW it's going to happen, my concern is WHEN it's going to happen. Not becoming drowsy when our Master is delayed.

I'm sure that whatever actually is going to take place, none of God's People, all the Tribes of Israel, are not going to be disappointed.

When the Rapture comes that is.

Waiting Till The Rapture Come.

Old man Jonah sittin' in his chair got no teeth and he got no hair
He got no daughter and he got no son
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

He never did marry and he never went far
Never bought a house or a big ole car
But he ain't no beggar and he sure ain't dumb
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
Heaven gonna call him away
But until that day

Old man Jonah's got an old brass horn
He's had it since the day that he was reborn
But he ain't gonna blow for just anyone
He's gonna wait till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Oh, Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
And heaven gonna take him away
But until that day

Preacher come a-walkin' down that country mile
He said, "Hey Jo you know it's been a while"
But Jonah keep his eyes on the settin' sun
He's just waitin' till the rapture come
I said he, waitin' till the rapture come

And when the rapture come, Lord gonna call out his name
(When the rapture come)
Jonah gonna put down his cane
(When the rapture come)
Heaven gonna call him away
But until that day

Oh, go come, come rapture come
I said, come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Come, come, come, come rapture come
Said, come, come, come, come rapture come
Well, come on in now
Come and take me away Lord
Come and take me away Lord
Come and take me away Lord

Peaceful Sabbath.

Pretty good example of how one that is deceived can 'create' their own religious doctrine by taking things out of God's written Word and twisting them to fit one's own personal philosophy.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Pretty good example of how one that is deceived can 'create' their own religious doctrine by taking things out of God's written Word and twisting them to fit one's own personal philosophy.

Which one do you mean?

Not all the "virgins" get to go?

Because we're not all defiled by "women"?

If a "woman" is a church, or a belief system doctrine.

Then the "One desired by women, desired by the Churchs, must be Jesus.

Are you mad at the Rapture Davy?

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[GEN2REV]

The only rapture supported by scripture is on the day of Christ's return.
Matthew 24:29-31
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[07-07-07]

In Matthew 25, the oil represents the Holy Ghost; the 5 wise had Him, the 5 foolish did not.

John the Baptist said, “I indeed baptize with water unto repentance, but One comes after me who baptizes with the Holy Ghost and Fire”.

 

[Keraz]

The only rapture supported by scripture is on the day of Christ's return.
Matthew 24:29-31
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Quite correct. And that event is not a 'rapture to heaven', but a transportation to where Jesus is, thru the clouds to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3

What I read on this thread and other threads,; is a shocking amount of wishful thinking and un Biblical assertions.
People should take far more care about what they write here and preach about. Remember - James 3:1 says: we who preach will be more severely judged.

 

[GEN2REV]

that event is not a 'rapture to heaven', but a transportation to where Jesus is, thru the clouds to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3

Interesting comment, but that verse doesn't support it. Is that the verse you intended to post?

 

[Keraz]

Interesting comment, but that verse doesn't support it. Is that the verse you intended to post?

Sorry, another memory letdown!
Zechariah 14:4 On that day, [Jesus' Return] His feet will stand on the Mt of Olives.....
Proof that He Returns to Jerusalem. Acts 1:11 Jesus does not stay in the clouds, or go back to heaven. Any theories which are different from this, are false and cannot happen.

 

[GEN2REV]

Sorry, another memory letdown!
Zechariah 14:4 On that day, [Jesus' Return] His feet will stand on the Mt of Olives.....
Proof that He Returns to Jerusalem. Acts 1:11 Jesus does not stay in the clouds, or go back to heaven. Any theories which are different from this, are false and cannot happen.

There's a bit of a contradiction there, though, Keraz.

Zechariah 14:1 says it's the Day of the Lord (the Wrath of God). The KJV even references Isaiah 13:6 and Isaiah 13:9 for that verse. Definitely the day of destruction.

So if it's Jesus' return AND it's the day of destruction, there's not much time there, for Jesus to stand on the Mt of Olives with all His saints that just met Him in the air, before everything gets destroyed. Not saying that can't happen, but it can't be a final destination for any of them that day.

Where am I wrong?

It certainly doesn't set up any Millennium scenario.

Just speaking of exactly what is written there.

ETA: I may be highlighting a point that was not relevant to the point you were making. If so, my bad.

 

[friend of]

It may sound too good to be true, but that doesn't make it false.

 

[Enoch111]

The only rapture supported by scripture is on the day of Christ's return.

Which comment shows that you do not know too much about the day of Christ's return. Show us the Rapture in Revelation 19 (the day of Christ's return).

 

[Keraz]

Which comment shows that you do not know too much about the day of Christ's return. Show us the Rapture in Revelation 19 (the day of Christ's return).

My reply in #128, was to show that Jesus Returns to Jerusalem and there is not rapture to heaven then, or any other time.

Zechariah 14:1 says it's the Day of the Lord (the Wrath of God). The KJV even references Isaiah 13:6 and Isaiah 13:9 for that verse. Definitely the day of destruction.

Zechariah 14 is a sequence of prophesied events.
Zechariah 14:1-2 refer to when the Anti-Christ conquers the holy people. Daniel 7:25 & 11:31m Revelation 13:5-8
Zechariah 14:3-21 Takes place 3 1/2 years later; the glorious Return of Jesus, then a description of things during the Millennium.

 

[Benjamin731]

Too good to be true? There are many proofs:

“The Lord does not come to the world at the time of the Rapture, but only reveals himself to the members of His Body. At the time of his resurrection He was only seen by those who believed on Him. Pilate and the High Priest, and those who crucified Him, did not know that He was risen. So it will be at the time of the Rapture. The world will not know that He has been here, and will have no knowledge of Him until He comes with the members of His Body, at the close of the Tribulation.” Billy Sunday

Jesus will meet His saints in the air and unbelievers will be left behind.

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The rapture will be in an instant.

2. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Christ will come for His bride and take His saints to Heaven.

3. John 14:1-3 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

4. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Only believers will see Christ and we shall be transformed. We shall be like Him.

5. 1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

6. Philippians 3:20-21 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

The rapture can happen at any moment.

7. Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Does the rapture happen near the end of the tribulation or at the end of the tribulation? I believe the pretribulation rapture. Before the tribulation believers will be raptured.

There is no instruction to the church about the tribulation. If the church is to go through the tribulation there should be instructions and warnings of some sort, but there isn’t. Scripture tells us we have hope in Christ.

The blessed hope. If this is a message of comfort as we wait for Christ then why would we go through the tribulation? Think about it. We are waiting for Christ not the anti-Christ and God’s wrath.

8. Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

9. 1 Thessalonians 2:19 “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?”

Paul says believers will not suffer wrath.

We know that during the tribulation God will pour out His wrath on the earth. If Scripture says believers will not suffer wrath and there will be a time where God pours out His wrath then that tells us that the rapture will occur before the tribulation.

10. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus says He will deliver Christians from the hour of trial. He is saying He will keep you from the tribulation.

11. Revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Glory to God!!!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Too good to be true? There are many proofs:

“The Lord does not come to the world at the time of the Rapture, but only reveals himself to the members of His Body. At the time of his resurrection He was only seen by those who believed on Him. Pilate and the High Priest, and those who crucified Him, did not know that He was risen. So it will be at the time of the Rapture. The world will not know that He has been here, and will have no knowledge of Him until He comes with the members of His Body, at the close of the Tribulation.” Billy Sunday

Jesus will meet His saints in the air and unbelievers will be left behind.

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The rapture will be in an instant.

2. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Christ will come for His bride and take His saints to Heaven.

3. John 14:1-3 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

4. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Only believers will see Christ and we shall be transformed. We shall be like Him.

5. 1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

6. Philippians 3:20-21 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

The rapture can happen at any moment.

7. Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Does the rapture happen near the end of the tribulation or at the end of the tribulation? I believe the pretribulation rapture. Before the tribulation believers will be raptured.

There is no instruction to the church about the tribulation. If the church is to go through the tribulation there should be instructions and warnings of some sort, but there isn’t. Scripture tells us we have hope in Christ.

The blessed hope. If this is a message of comfort as we wait for Christ then why would we go through the tribulation? Think about it. We are waiting for Christ not the anti-Christ and God’s wrath.

8. Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

9. 1 Thessalonians 2:19 “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?”

Paul says believers will not suffer wrath.

We know that during the tribulation God will pour out His wrath on the earth. If Scripture says believers will not suffer wrath and there will be a time where God pours out His wrath then that tells us that the rapture will occur before the tribulation.

10. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus says He will deliver Christians from the hour of trial. He is saying He will keep you from the tribulation.

11. Revelation 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Glory to God!!!

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.
Amen to the pre-trib!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Davy]

Which one do you mean?

Not all the "virgins" get to go?

Because we're not all defiled by "women"?

If a "woman" is a church, or a belief system doctrine.

Then the "One desired by women, desired by the Churchs, must be Jesus.

Are you mad at the Rapture Davy?

Peaceful Sabbath.

OK, I'll go over your previous post again, showing you in detail what I'm talking about.

Dave Watchman words in quotes:

I probably wouldn't worry about making doctrine out of the parables. I've tried to show how the virgins demonstrate the need to BUY OIL just before the second coming. Though it has seemed to work for me financially, if I'm correct about the timing, I doubt there's much time remaining to enjoy my winnings.

In the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25), one cannot... buy the Oil. The Oil in that parable represents The Holy Spirit. Remember about Simon of Acts 8 who had been a sorcerer, that when he saw The Holy Spirit perform miracles through the Apostles, Simon offered money to buy it, but was rebuked and told to repent.

So what's The Holy Spirit for and how do we receive Him? Per Lord Jesus in the Book of John, Jesus promised His servants that He would send us The Holy Spirit Comforter, and He would teach us all things. We receive The Holy Spirit by our Faith on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, and belief on His death and resurrection. Some receive without water baptism, some receive after water baptism.

Thus in the parable of the ten virgins, the five wise virgins had the Oil already in their lamps, and... a spare vessel of the Oil, showing they had what?; understanding, the "strong meat" of Hebrews 5 if you will . The five foolish virgins only had the Oil in their lamps, and thus were not prepared to meet Christ at symbolic midnight when the Bridegroom would come, their lamps running out of the Oil. The eleventh hour represents the time just prior to Christ's coming, i.e., the "great tribulation". Another subject link to this is about God sealing His servants with His seal in prep for the tribulation. That sealing is by The Holy Spirit so as to not be deceived during the great tribulation. Believing on men's doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture theory is a sign of not having the spare vessel of the Oil, meaning not sealed in prep to go through the coming tribulation, and likely subject to deception to the false-Messiah that comes first.

I wonder if Jesus is using the word "virgin" in Matthew 25 the same symbolic way that it's used in Revelation 14.

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins.
If that's the case both the wise and the foolish will get to go:

"It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.

Only the symbolic virgins unto Christ that remain "a chaste virgin" waiting on His coming is who those in Revelation 14 apply to. Apostle Paul used the idea of presenting us to Christ, our true Husband (spiritually), as a "chaste virgin" (2 Corinthians 11). Paul was pulling from a parable in Isaiah 54 about the barren woman which God used as a symbol for being spiritually chaste, waiting on His coming. To be a spiritual harlot instead, means falling away to the false-Messiah instead, who comes first at the end of this world. God's Word shows the Church will go through the coming great tribulation.

Whosoever shall call out on the Name of the Lord at that time, shall be saved.

Like Joel 2:32 where that verse comes from, it's about Christ's elect that are 'sealed' to go through the tribulation and not be deceived by the false-Messiah that is to appear in Jerusalem for the end. Those deceived during the trib will remain deceived unto Christ appears to end that tribulation. It will be the deceived that will wish for the hills and mountains to fall on them because of shame when they see Jesus (6th Seal).

But the "taken" are the lost. They are taken to where the vultures gather to eat them.

Those 'taken', per Luke 17, are lost, and will appear spiritually naked and in shame when they see Jesus coming in the clouds, because they fell away to the false-Christ and his host, represented by those "eagles", which really mean vultures.

But the main thing is I wouldn't worry about HOW it's going to happen, my concern is WHEN it's going to happen. Not becoming drowsy when our Master is delayed.

Per that parable Jesus gave, those who think He delays His coming are the deceived, not His sealed servants that cannot be deceived (because of the spare vessel of Oil they have, remember?). The deceived will instead think Jesus is already here when the false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem working great signs and miracles to deceive (2 Thessalonians 2).

I'm sure that whatever actually is going to take place, none of God's People, all the Tribes of Israel, are not going to be disappointed.

When the Rapture comes that is.

Waiting Till The Rapture Come.

Your above statements are not correct, because believing Gentiles are definitely God's people today also, under Christ Jesus. You should review Romans 9 where Paul showed that it's not about the 'seed', but about those of Faith on Jesus Christ that are counted for God's Israel. The unbelieving Jews in majority won't believe until Jesus comes in the clouds and they see Him, and then in shame they will mourn for Him like a long lost son (end of Zechariah 12). Jesus also showed their shame in Luke 23 by those daughters of Jerusalem that wept for Him on His way to be crucified.

The word rapture does not appear anywhere in God's written Word, not in the Greek texts of the New Testament. The pre-trib rapture creators brought that word from the Latin and used it as a stage prop. It is exploited in the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory which was first preached in 1830's Great Britain by the Edward Irving church and John Nelson Darby. Prior to that, only a post-tribulational coming of Christ and gathering was preached in the Christian Church, and that for over 1,800 years.

The actual phrase in the KJV is "caught up" (Greek harpazo), and is linked to Apostle Paul's change to the "spiritual body" on the "last trump", per 1 Corinthians 15, which is also when the resurrection happens (i.e., 7th trumpet). And per Zechariah 14, Lord Jesus is coming here, back to earth where He ascended from, the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, and that will only happen on the last day of this world.

 

[Keraz]

Too good to be true? There are many proofs:

Be aware that there are a lot of good Christians who reject the 'rapture to heaven'.
We reject it because we see in the Bible how we will receive great blessings here on earth; our home, the place we were made to inhabit. God has angels to serve Him in heaven.

Belief that you won't have to fact trials and testing, is contrary to Bible teaching. 1 Peter 4:12, +

 

[Timtofly]

Your eyes will see it.

I have no doubt about it. Are you saying you will not see it?

The whole church in Paradise see everything on earth, no? They are not still physically walking around on earth and experiencing earth after leaving this tent. They are in Paradise, not on earth. Why do you want to remain on earth instead of joining them?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I have no doubt about it. Are you saying you will not see it?

The whole church in Paradise see everything on earth, no? They are not still physically walking around on earth and experiencing earth after leaving this tent. They are in Paradise, not on earth. Why do you want to remain on earth instead of joining them?

We weren't saved for ourselves but as ministers of grace, servants to others, and as a nation of high priests interceding for the lost. Why would God create us for a purpose, then remove us before that purpose is complete?
We have the testimony of His witness within us, and that testimony is not complete or "sealed" until the last two witnesses finish their testimony, are executed and "caught up". The book of the Revelation is not strictly chronological, but the resurrection of the two witnesses is at the completion of the " second woe" and is immediately followed by the proclamation of the arrival of Christ's kingdom.

I believe that this is the basis of the "mid tribulation " rapture hypothesis, but I also believe this is the time of the 1st resurrection, the gathering together of the saints, and the consumption of the Antichrist. I haven't studied this in depth, I just get my understanding from what the Lord has shown me while reading through scripture.
I trust what He teaches me. I'm capable of false reasoning, but the Holy Spirit certainly knows the meaning of what He's inspired.