2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
This is all so simple. It boggles me that what I am saying doesn't put an end to the whole matter.
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But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
The present tense is not a trick, it is truth.Again, Paul is not 1300 years old. You are still letting present tense trick you, so is Romans 8:2 true or not? Is sin still dwelling in Paul, or is he been freed from sin dwelling in him?
See, I have this thing . . . when I read the Bible, I accept what it says in the regular meaning of language, and then adjust my view to fit. What I've found is a real harmony in the Scriptures. People talk about "tension" in the Scriptures. I think that just means they haven't fully understood, and still feel there are conflicts. I don't think there are. I don't find this "tension". I read it, accept it, and it all fits together.Again, Paul is not 1300 years old. You are still letting present tense trick you, so is Romans 8:2 true or not? Is sin still dwelling in Paul, or is he been freed from sin dwelling in him?
The present tense is not a trick, it is truth.
Paul is not saying the Law came to someone else, and that killed Paul. Paul is saying he was alive, then the Law came, and produced sin in him, and he died.
Your assertion is that he's saying the Law came to someone else 1300 years earlier, and that was the death of Paul. The Law does not induce sin because someone else is given the commandment. The Law produces sin in the one who receives the commandment.
Follow the tenses, and believe what you read without changing it.
It is no longer I that do it, but sin that lives in me. In my members is the law of sin, and my body is subject to the law of sin and death, but I've been set free from that law, or principle, of sin and death.
Much love!
See, I have this thing . . . when I read the Bible, I accept what it says in the regular meaning of language, and then adjust my view to fit. What I've found is a real harmony in the Scriptures. People talk about "tension" in the Scriptures. I think that just means they haven't fully understood, and still feel there are conflicts. I don't think there are. I don't find this "tension". I read it, accept it, and it all fits together.
And in faith I walk in the Spirit. No "second benefit". No "special dispensation". Just trusting in the finished work of Christ.
Much love!
Sin no longer dwelt in Paul. Read his conclusion in Romans 8:2 ...has FREED ME from SIN and death.
I see this in the renewing of the mind. Here in Romans 7 Paul explains what's going on, and why we have a problem, and how this doesn't have to be a problem if we understand correctly.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
I think that the way the lusts of the old man are deceiptful is that we can think those desires are ours. But coming to understand that even though we may feel and think certain things, that this is just the echo of who we were, and to know that it is no longer me that sins, but the sin that lives in me, then I can understand more readily how I have been freed completely from those desires.
Much love!
And, you may be disciplined by God, not punishment, but training. Yet still not guilty!
Much love!
All that remains is that we receive the reconciliation.
I don't know if I ever heard it taught that way for many many years. Andrew Farley teaches this. Michael Reeves teaches this. For myself, one day I realized that I wasn't believing what I read, it sounded too good! Well, it IS really really good!
Much love!
Which do you believe of these two.
Sin if committed, is no longer a sin if committed. For instance, murder, is not charged to us if we willfully murder someone.
Or,
We used to commit sin, but as a Christian we don't do the same things we committed as an unbeliever. We would NEVER murder someone.
Saint,
When you hear the Gospel and BELIEVE on Jesus, God takes the seed of the word that you have believed (faith comes by hearing)... and also the Word Himself who is Christ (and hearing by the WORD) and through the power of the Holy Spirit = God BIRTHS His very Eternal Righteousness inside you, as your born again Spirit.
I look forward with hope to being born again as a new creature in Christ Jesus, but until then if anyone asks, “have you been born again”, I will have to answer “not yet”!
What Paul had, was an issue with failing to be a perfect disciple....."that which i would do, i dont do, and that which i dont want to do"....etc.
Or, Christ died on earth, and we must also follow in his footsteps and also die on earth. We will meet God in heaven as Father because we were begotten on earth as new creatures, and following in Jesus' footsteps we will be born (resurrected) as spirit beings, as part of a new creation, having the same divine nature as Jesus now has. Our resurrection is the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:4,5 - "I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." The rest of the dead are those who partake in the second resurrection, and are not granted eternal life until the end of the thousand years.Christ died on earth, and we must be born again on earth.
Christians will meet God as Father in Heaven, because they are born again on Earth.
If you are not born again on earth, then you will meet God as your Judge in heaven, and there is no remedy for His Judgment, in that Case.
There is just the eternal execution of the eternal verdict upon you.
So, take the remedy now, while you are still breathing.
There is a sin nature that is our old man, that is nailed to the Cross with Jesus.
Paul told us to understand this, and to reckon that old man to be nailed to the Cross with Jesus, to "reckon" it dead.
Paul teaches that God does not see this old man, our adamic nature, after we are saved, and He does not impute sin to our born again incorruptible man. Romans 4:8
Where Christians get bound up by wrong believing, is by not being able to perceive of themselves as the "new Creation in Christ".
They continue to see themselves as that part that is nailed to the Cross that is leading them to lust.
So, as long as they are mentally caught up in that, this wrong believing....the wrong "mind".... then the Law's dominion will keep energizing their old man to control their behavior.
Paul teaches that we are to put all that away, and to come to the Grace of God, and REST from our self effort, and in this Resting, we find the Power of Christ to be delivered into "VICTORY"< as Paul teaches. = "Always".
You are quoting Romans 7! What you are not understanding in Romans 7 is that was the conclusion of Paul's teaching on those who were UNDER THE LAW of the Old Covenant, Romans 7:1. We are not under the law. Why? Because after receiving the SPIRIT, we now keep the righteous requirements of the engraved on stone law, BY THE SPIRIT. When born again, which they weren't yet in Romans 7, the laws of God are written on our hearts where the sin nature used to be, but is no longer - it is dead, and so is our desire to sin.
Read the context that goes 9 verses into chapter 8. You need to shift your thinking from the human to the spiritual. 1 Cor. 2.
Or, Christ died on earth, and we must also follow in his footsteps and also die on earth. .
I think of this as not grappling with sin and temptation, rather, stepping away from it, as it were.If we fight , if we live in striving to resist the old man, then the dominion of the Law empowers our old man to be stronger, and we fail., we fall.
Paul finally teaches us not to fight, but to "reckon the old man dead"...
It not exactly ignoring it, it's more to do with understanding that it has no power over us, and is not the real us.
Amen and Amen!!!God teaches......>"I started your salvation in you, i and will be faithful to complete it"..