The soon coming rapture?

[James Macbeth]

What do you mean by that exactly? Before, you were trying to say that Matthew 25:31-46 is a description of the church being separated into sheep and goats. But, goats are not part of the church. Only the sheep are. So, can you see now that your claim was wrong and that Matthew 25:31-46 is not just talking about the church, which is represented by the sheep, but also the lost like Judas who are not part of the church and are represented by the goats?

Yes but not separated until the end. Meaning their given time to return into the fold.

 

[Timtofly]

Where is that taught in scripture?

No, I don't claim that. All you have are false accusations. Israel was not set to the side and I don't claim that as you falsely accused. There was a remnant of Israelite believers, as Paul said in Romans 11:5. Because of the shed blood of Christ, Gentile believers were grafted into the cultivated olive tree along with that remnant of Israelite believers and they are all one in Christ (as taught in Galatians 3:26-29). No one is replaced. Rather, all believers, Jew and Gentile, have been brought together as one.

What are you talking about? We should be celebrating the fact that the blood of Christ brought Jew and Gentile believers together into one body, but here you are trying to separate them.

Daniel 9 for one. Zechariah 14.

It is called the fulness of the Gentiles. And Jews are welcome. In fact many posters claim the Gentiles are just Hebrews any ways. All humanity is welcome into God's family. It is by faith though, and not many are willing.

 

[Timtofly]

The goats are part of the Church. Was not Judas Iscariot a Disciple of Jesus until the bitter end?

No, the goats are part of Israel. Matthew 25 is not about the church nor all mankind. You both are wrong. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. Matthew 25 is not a reward for good works scenario. Jesus is choosing who is who. Basing it on works definitely rules out this is the church. But many just call it figurative and go about their day avoiding God's Word and trusting in their own human understanding and imagination.

 

[James Macbeth]

No, the goats are part of Israel. Matthew 25 is not about the church nor all mankind. You both are wrong. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. Matthew 25 is not a reward for good works scenario. Jesus is choosing who is who. Basing it on works definitely rules out this is the church. But many just call it figurative and go about their day avoiding God's Word and trusting in their own human understanding and imagination.

God is keeping track of our good works. Our Lord Jesus will weigh them out.
Faith & works together in cooperation.

Matthew 6:20-21
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

[Timtofly]

God is keeping track of our good works. Our Lord Jesus will weigh them out.
Faith & works together in cooperation.

Matthew 6:20-21
lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

So the Cross literal meant nothing? Only good works gets us into heaven?

It is either one or the other. Not both.

No such thing as cooperation. You forget the verse that says even our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. There is none that doeth good. All are sinners.

The point of James is that you are still in heaven, just no rewards or anything to show for your faith.

You are stating many never even make it to heaven. That is their lack of faith, not their lack of works. Once dead, one cannot get faith back. Although, they may, at the GWT decide to say yes. But literally have nothing by way of works. What verse points out people are working in sheol?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes but not separated until the end. Meaning their given time to return into the fold.

That's nonsense. Once you die, that's it. No second chances. Your fate is sealed at that point. You are sadly mistaken.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 9 for one. Zechariah 14.

Where do Daniel 9 and Zechariah 14 teach that "Israel is the Nation ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus."?

It is called the fulness of the Gentiles. And Jews are welcome. In fact many posters claim the Gentiles are just Hebrews any ways. All humanity is welcome into God's family. It is by faith though, and not many are willing.

Scripture is clear that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ's church. That won't ever change. He has one body of people that belong to Him and they are those who put their faith and trust in Him as Lord and Savior. Being a Jew or Gentile makes no difference. That won't ever change. Being a child of God has never depended on someone's ethnicity or nationality and never will.

 

[Timtofly]

Where do Daniel 9 and Zechariah 14 teach that "Israel is the Nation ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus."?

Scripture is clear that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ's church. That won't ever change. He has one body of people that belong to Him and they are those who put their faith and trust in Him as Lord and Savior. Being a Jew or Gentile makes no difference. That won't ever change. Being a child of God has never depended on someone's ethnicity or nationality and never will.

If you cannot figure out Daniel 9 and Zechariah 14, I cannot help you. But you would not accept my help any way, as it is just nonsense to you. You asked for Scripture. I gave you 2 chapters.

You already think Daniel 9 is fulfilled and Christ is in full control, yet you substitute the church for Israel. Daniel 9 is about Israel, not the church. When those 6 things are reality, Daniel's people will be in charge. Who are Daniel's people? The church or Israel?

Zechariah 14 states that every nation has to report to Israel each year. What do you think that means? Give them a holocaust like Germany did ? Leave Jerusalem desolate for hundreds of years? Build a mosque and subject Palestine to Islam for hundreds of years?

You clearly think all that has been in the past, as you are Amil and deny a future 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. It certainly is not after the New Jerusalem comes down. It is not talking about a New Jerusalem. It is talking about current Jerusalem. Why would there be sin and rebellion in the NHNE?

 

[James Macbeth]

That's nonsense. Once you die, that's it. No second chances. Your fate is sealed at that point. You are sadly mistaken.

Purgatory.

 

[James Macbeth]

So the Cross literal meant nothing? Only good works gets us into heaven?

It is either one or the other. Not both.

No such thing as cooperation. You forget the verse that says even our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. There is none that doeth good. All are sinners.

The point of James is that you are still in heaven, just no rewards or anything to show for your faith.

You are stating many never even make it to heaven. That is their lack of faith, not their lack of works. Once dead, one cannot get faith back. Although, they may, at the GWT decide to say yes. But literally have nothing by way of works. What verse points out people are working in sheol?

Our good works could never open the gates of Heaven.

But our good works will grant us admission.

Jesus is the doorman who will judge our good works.

Jesus opened the gates .

 

[Timtofly]

Our good works could never open the gates of Heaven.

But our good works will grant us admission.

Jesus is the doorman who will judge our good works.

Jesus opened the gates .

Mere opinion.

 

[James Macbeth]

Mere opinion.

It's taught by the Church and backed up by Scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you cannot figure out Daniel 9 and Zechariah 14, I cannot help you. But you would not accept my help any way, as it is just nonsense to you. You asked for Scripture. I gave you 2 chapters.

In other words, you can't tell me where Daniel 9 or Zechariah 14 teach that "Israel is the Nation ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.".

You already think Daniel 9 is fulfilled and Christ is in full control, yet you substitute the church for Israel.

No, I do not substitute the church for Israel. All you can ever do is make false accusations. You literally have nothing else to offer.

Daniel 9 is about Israel, not the church.

It is about what Jesus did for Israel.

When those 6 things are reality, Daniel's people will be in charge.

Where does it say that?

Zechariah 14 states that every nation has to report to Israel each year. What do you think that means?

It actually says they would have to go to "Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts". What does that have to do with Israel "ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus"?

Give them a holocaust like Germany did ? Leave Jerusalem desolate for hundreds of years? Build a mosque and subject Palestine to Islam for hundreds of years?

Oh yeah, I forgot. There's one other thing you besides make false accusations. You say ridiculous, nonsensical things that are completely pointless.

You clearly think all that has been in the past, as you are Amil and deny a future 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. It certainly is not after the New Jerusalem comes down. It is not talking about a New Jerusalem. It is talking about current Jerusalem. Why would there be sin and rebellion in the NHNE?

So, do you think animal sacrifices will be reinstated then? Even though Jesus made the once for all sacrifice that put an end to the need for animal sacrifices and offerings forever?

 

[Timtofly]

It's taught by the Church and backed up by Scripture.

It was taught around 1200AD, and backed up by opinion and faulty interpretation.

 

[Timtofly]

It actually says they would have to go to "Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts". What does that have to do with Israel "ruling over all other Nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus"?

Like I said, why would all the nations have to come and worship Jesus as King, if Israel was not the ruling nation?

Jesus will not rule as King until the 70th week is complete. Revelation 11:15 is the completion of Daniel 9:24.

 

[James Macbeth]

It was taught around 1200AD, and backed up by opinion and faulty interpretation.

Yes it became an official teaching in the late 11th century, but do you really believe that the Pope rolled out of bed and decided to create a new doctrine out of thin air?

And to say that no Church fathers taught something akin to Purgatory is pure falsehood.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like I said, why would all the nations have to come and worship Jesus as King, if Israel was not the ruling nation?

Jesus will not rule as King until the 70th week is complete. Revelation 11:15 is the completion of Daniel 9:24.

Is Jesus your King now? Is He not the King of all of us who believe in Him right now?

 

[James Macbeth]

Is Jesus your King now? Is He not the King of all of us who believe in Him right now?

Jesus is the Monarch.
One who rules all.
ἡγούμενος

 

[Timtofly]

Yes it became an official teaching in the late 11th century, but do you really believe that the Pope rolled out of bed and decided to create a new doctrine out of thin air?

And to say that no Church fathers taught something akin to Purgatory is pure falsehood.

Just going by the historical record. You can make up your own history if you are so inclined.

 

[Timtofly]

Is Jesus your King now? Is He not the King of all of us who believe in Him right now?

Do all the nations go up each year to worship Jesus in Jerusalem? Are they cursed if they do not? That He is Lord is not in question now is it? We are talking about earthly nations, not the church/body of Christ.