Men had the Spirit of Christ in them before Jesus came to die for us (1 Peter 1:11); and thus were born again.
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2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
NKJV
No guarantee of anything there. Jesus is being factual. Like saying...unless you climb a tree you can't see over the wall.
But people will read in things by leaning on their own understanding.
Can you find a verse that speaks of that?
Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God...
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Still no saved status there. Still no guarantee of entering into the kingdom. It doesn't say all born again people will see or enter the kingdom. Being born again is but a pre-requisite that makes it POSSIBLE to do so.
We are born again into a race of faith at a higher level than the world. How we run determines the outcome. Some will do well and get a reward and some will do poorly and be cut off...though they will survive...but in outer darkness...there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
In a great house there are vessels of honour AND of dishonour. And God uses the very same lump to divide those outcomes with.
That is how NOT to cherry-pick all the self-serving....nice sounding verses for oneself while ignoring all the warnings.
A simple honesty is required to avoid being a vessel of dishonour. But many will go with the error based on their ego.
Here is a parallel thinking to entering into the kingdom.
Unless one becomes a pilot he cannot see the moon. Unless one becomes a pilot he cannot become an astronaut.
Do all pilots go to the moon? Of course not.
Do all pilots become astronauts? No.
Do ALL who are born again enter into the kingdom? No.
Do all who are born again SEE the kingdom? Of course not.
Being born again makes it possible to see and enter the kingdom. Why? Because the Christ in you is a life system that kicks in when your soul life is on the cross. But very few will enter through the narrow door. Even after (especially so ) being "born again."
This is what the bible ACTUALLY says.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Not a good outcome.
So then people are misusing the bible to justify themselves. They think they can hide from God with their petty doctrines. They try to hide behind selected bible verse with a reasoning that goes against logic, truth and reality.
It's like Adam ripping out a page from the bible to cover his naked private parts with a "leaf" from the bible.
We will see how that works out....
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2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Oh, I understand what you’re saying now. People can walk away after being born again. Yes I know. I’m not osas
Jesus is Lord.
Im not the Lord.
However, i do have "the righteousness of God, IN CHRIST".
So, on that level, regarding the Lord, im the same., as are all the born again.
Not at all. You are esteeming yourself too highly...as all who live in their own egos will do.
So you are just a cultivated religious ego. An indoctrinated person who has believed a decoy gospel that caters to fallen men with enlarged egos.
Of course the righteousness of God is found IN Christ. But this is not about only being born again. Only the born again can survive letting go of their soul life. But VERY few who are born again will ever be able to enter INTO Christ. The way is narrow and difficult.
Your scheme is easy and based on platitudes and superficial indoctrination into man-made ideology.
That's not the same as life from the living God. Your scheme is just a deception and not based on real life. So you are just promoting fantasy....but a dangerous fantasy that will lead to you being cut-off from God into outer darkness. You are just making your own predicament worse.
Surrender your pride and arrogance to God. Learn humility and perhaps God will show you the TRUE light from heaven.
Jesus said,
Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
A few things can be extracted from this verse. 1) Jesus is stating it as a matter of absolute truth. 2) the one who hears His word and believes in Him who sent Him has everlasting life. This is spiritual life that will never come to an end. So if this salvation were lost, the life would come to an end, and it would be temporal rather than everlasting. 3) the same person shall not come into condemnation. Here is a promise with absolute terminology that no one who is in Christ Jesus will ever experience condemnation. Therefore they cannot go to hell or outer darkness. 4) this spiritual, everlasting life begins at the moment of first faith.
Within every cherry there is a seed that can produce an entire tree, that can produce more cherries. So I will never stop planting cherries into people's lives as seeds of faith.
In context in Matthew, Jesus is calling the Jewish people the children of the kingdom here.
Clearly, if anyone has the fear of the LORD, they will never walk away.
Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Granted. Although some people arent born again, just pretending to believe, to please others. However, what if a born again believer does turn away? What happens to their regenerated spirit? Good point
Charles Darwin was a believer apparently!
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@2Chr. 34:19
If someone lives and dies in unbelief (whatever the pleasant profession), there never was a true work of God's grace in regeneration.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
I already said that the verse you are quoting makes a convoluted translation that is missing the idea that we need to listen to God....not believe ON Him....that is not in the text.
We are to HEAR His word and believe Him who sent Jesus...the Father. (Not believe ABOUT Him)
So you can try being a lawyer to find a single mistranslated verse and stake your eternity on that. But I would just hope you don't take other people with you.
Cherry picking verses with an interpretation that go against the other verses is to plant death. Again I hope to limit the damage to yourself for what you are doing.
Not true. We NOW are MORE the sons of the kingdom than they even were. And in Christ there is no difference. So again I would limit the damage to you.
Anybody can miss the gospel message to meaning something other than it says. And both you and Behold are doing a fine job of being off in your understanding....and that is because you have no other reference to the truth than a twisted version and interpretation based on a previously concocted ideology. Just like the Pharisees of old.
Or do you think hypocrisy is limited to the Jews?
There is no such thing in the kjv. It is a mormon contention that the scriptures are correct only insofar as they are correctly translated; and they are a cult.
If one simply exegetes properly, there is no such thing.
I see that you are making me work today. Okay, here is the scripture:
Mat 8:8, The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9, For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10, When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11, And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12, But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Here, Jesus is saying that the Centurion, who is a Gentile, will sit with Him and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom. But the children of the kingdom, in context, is speaking of the Jewish people where Jesus has not found so great a faith as what He now sees in the Centurion. It is the Gentiles who will come from the east and west; while the people of Israel, who are located in the land of Israel, shall be cast into outer darkness.
You can reject this interpretation if you want. I know that it is based in sound thinking and that some people do harden their hearts against the realities of scripture for whatever reason. I consider it to be a peripheral issue; and yet there may be condemnation for you if you reject any sound interpretation of scripture. So I would beware if I were you.
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With all your human interpretations and limiting of God, you must consider that Jesus never realized that His words would someday be read by people other than the Jews. It's too bad Jesus knew so little...and you are so much wiser in your generation so you could veto His words as unknowing of any wider context. Somebody has to limit God and well.....you seem to be cut out for the job. Maybe we do need you as a watchman to make up for the ignorance of Jesus on these matters.
......NOT.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
So, by their actions, they demonstrated their faith on a daily basis for 50 years.
Your hypothesis is ridiculous.
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