The Twins

[justbyfaith]

So, by their actions, they demonstrated their faith on a daily basis for 50 years.

Your hypothesis is ridiculous.

A person can indeed do works that for all practical purposes, appear to be of faith, and yet not have a saving faith.

Consider:

Mat 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These did many good works; and also trusted that they would be saved because they did those works.

But in that, they were trusting in their works rather than in the finished work of the Cross, they missed the boat.

They were not cleansed on the inside; they were not regenerated and renewed by the Holy Ghost; as Paul writes that such a thing is not of works in Titus 3:5.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm certain that He knew this...for He was God.

Really. You tend to vastly underestimate God with your lack of understanding a bigger context....while trying to limit God to a much smaller context.

Many children of the kingdom...born again people...will be cast into outer darkness. But maybe your own hatred for the Jews makes you think God loves we replacements more than the original branches?

Or have Gentiles improved the state of the human heart?

Do you think the Jews are less than human?

or will you concede that there is no difference to God in the kingdom. No races, or genders.

 

[Behold]

So, by their actions, they demonstrated their faith on a daily basis for 50 years.

Your hypothesis is ridiculous.

My Parable exposes the fact that the same works had no effect on either Twin's redemption.
In other words, their works, were not accepted by God.

So, It was The Cross and the Blood Shed on it, that one Twin had received as her Salvation, when she Trusted in Jesus, and was born again, is why she went to heaven.
The other Twin, was not born again, and Jesus said.."you must be born again".
If you are not, then 50 yrs of good works are as nothing, as God only accepts Jesus's BLOOD to accept the TWIN or You, or me.

 

[Stan B]

My Parable exposes the fact that the same works had no effect on either Twin's redemption.
In other words, their works, were not accepted by God.

Then how do you account for a real pair of twins, Jacob and Esau?
Jacob He loved and Esau He hated. And while there have been a whole lot of Christ-rejecting Jews, Why does God promise that ALL Israel will be saved?

 

[Taken]

Granted. Although some people arent born again, just pretending to believe, to please others. However, what if a born again believer does turn away? What happens to their regenerated spirit? Good point

It was a question posed to you, who said, the Born Again COULD turn Away from God.

I don't find ^ that Teaching IN Scripture.
Do you have a Scriptural Reference of any Born Again man turning away from God?

Thanks,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

It was a question posed to you, who said, the Born Again COULD turn Away from God.

I don't find ^ that Teaching IN Scripture.
Do you have a Scriptural Reference of any Born Again man turning away from God?

Thanks,
Glory to God,
Taken

‘Born again’ ? Jesus appeared to 500 people, and only 120 stayed the course.

Tychicus, Demas, Crescens,

Titus? John Mark?

And of course, how can we ignore Judas-walked with G_D, given authority to cast out demons-turned away (yes, thieving and pre-resurrection).
(Call me cynical, but I presume you already know this)
I do know of people who have turned away. Were they ‘born again’? Or pretenders? Idk

 

[Behold]

Then how do you account for a real pair of twins, Jacob and Esau?
Jacob He loved and Esau He hated. And while there have been a whole lot of Christ-rejecting Jews, Why does God promise that ALL Israel will be saved?

Stan,

Jacob and Esau.....???
There is NO CROSS YET.
NO JESUS ON THE CROSS YET< Stan.
This kinda matters to the "time of the Gentile", as we are under a NEW TESTAMENT< now.
The Old Testament has been replaced by a New Testament and a New Covenant.

So, thats "how i explain" Jacob and Esau.
Its not related.

See, my "Twins" parable is related to the "time of the Gentiles' when God accepts us only based on the Blood of Jesus and Jesus's finished work on the Cross.

 

[Stan B]

Stan,

Jacob and Esau.....???
There is NO CROSS YET.
NO JESUS ON THE CROSS YET< Stan.
This kinda matters to the "time of the Gentile", as we are under a NEW TESTAMENT< now.
The Old Testament has been replaced by a New Testament and a New Covenant.

So, thats "how i explain" Jacob and Esau.
Its not related.

See, my "Twins" parable is related to the "time of the Gentiles' when God accepts us only based on the Blood of Jesus and Jesus's finished work on the Cross.

So, what about all the Jews who have rejected Jesus in the past 2000 years? In many places it says "ALL Israel will be saved."

 

[Behold]

So, what about all the Jews who have rejected Jesus in the past 2000 years? In many places it says "ALL Israel will be saved."

Thanks for the question.

Its deep.

I'll try to be brief with my limited answer.

God was always dealing with "The Chosen People" in the OT.
He took a break from this, and will in the coming days, begin to deal with them again.
His "break" is ...."time of the Gentiles".
So, God is at this time, in History, regarding the "end times"....... God is dealing with Gentiles, THROUGH THE CROSS.
In the "time of the Gentiles", God is offering salvation as His GIFT of Righteousness to the "world".....in the "time of the Gentiles".
This is "Justification by Faith"...and this offer will END. It has a TIME limit.
This FREE GIFT OFFER to become God's family member, is going to END.
When God is finished dealing with the Gentiles.... the Free Gift offer is OVER....., and He is going to return to His dealing with the JEW.
That's the Great Trib.

Now about this "all Israel" will be saved.
WE'll let the Theologians all disagree, because this is one of those Questions.....like...>"is it pre-trib, or Mid-trib"< where, everyone can't agree.
So, what i will do, is post the 4 basic theories on who "all Israel" is....and you can do the study.

1. The Jews – Every Jew who has ever lived is “all Israel”.
2. The Church – Jews and Gentiles deemed to have been saved
3. The chosen remnant – all Jewish believers throughout history.
4. Ethnic Israel – the people of Israel will receive salvation at the end of days.

And Stan, there are even more ideas about who is Israel, Jews..
This is a rabbit Trail and i tend keep my people away from it..

 

[justbyfaith]

Really. You tend to vastly underestimate God with your lack of understanding a bigger context....while trying to limit God to a much smaller context.

Many children of the kingdom...born again people...will be cast into outer darkness. But maybe your own hatred for the Jews makes you think God loves we replacements more than the original branches?

Or have Gentiles improved the state of the human heart?

Do you think the Jews are less than human?

or will you concede that there is no difference to God in the kingdom. No races, or genders.

I have no hatred for the Jewish people.

I would make the point that Jesus promises with absolute terminology...Verily, verily, I say unto you...he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto llife.

They shall not come into condemnation...this is also absolute terminology.

The born again Christian will not be cast into outer darkness.

While the Jewish people can also be said to be the children of the kingdom.

The problem for them is, that not all of them place their complete trust in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross to save them; and that in this, if they do not trust in the finished work of the Cross, they are not saved and will be cast into outer darkness.

Their condemnation has nothing to do with the fact that they are Jewish; everything to do with the fact that they reject the true Messiah.

 

[Behold]

I have no hatred for the Jewish people.

I would make the point that Jesus promises with absolute terminology...Verily, verily, I say unto you...he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto llife.

What you said is true, as long as its related to the "time of the Gentiles".
As before the "time of the Gentiles', you had no Jesus on the Cross, so, no Jew could "believe on Jesus", in the Old Testament.
In the Great Trib, you will not find the "time of the Gentiles", so, The offer of how to become a child of God, will be different.
It will not be "Grace", and it will not be "justification by faith". ALONE.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks for the question.

Its deep.

I'll try to be brief with my limited answer.

God was always dealing with "The Chosen People" in the OT.
He took a break from this, and will in the coming days, begin to deal with them again.
His "break" is ...."time of the Gentiles".
So, God is at this time, in History, regarding the "end times"....... God is dealing with Gentiles, THROUGH THE CROSS.
In the "time of the Gentiles", God is offering salvation as His GIFT of Righteousness to the "world".....in the "time of the Gentiles".
This is "Justification by Faith"...and this offer will END. It has a TIME limit.
This FREE GIFT OFFER to become God's family member, is going to END.
When God is finished dealing with the Gentiles.... the Free Gift offer is OVER....., and He is going to return to His dealing with the JEW.
That's the Great Trib.

Now about this "all Israel" will be saved.
WE'll let the Theologians all disagree, because this is one of those Questions.....like...>"is it pre-trib, or Mid-trib"< where, everyone can't agree.
So, what i will do, is post the 4 basic theories on who "all Israel" is....and you can do the study.

1. The Jews – Every Jew who has ever lived is “all Israel”.
2. The Church – Jews and Gentiles deemed to have been saved
3. The chosen remnant – all Jewish believers throughout history.
4. Ethnic Israel – the people of Israel will receive salvation at the end of days.

And Stan, there are even more ideas about who is Israel, Jews..
This is a rabbit Trail and i tend keep my people away from it..

It is after the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled that all Israel shall be saved (Romans 11:26).

During the times of the Gentiles, God preserves a faithful remnant (Romans 9:27, Romans 11:4-5).

 

[Behold]

It is after the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled that all Israel shall be saved (Romans 11:26).

During the times of the Gentiles, God preserves a faithful remnant (Romans 9:27, Romans 11:4-5).

See my above post, the one i posted right before yours.

 

[Episkopos]

I have no hatred for the Jewish people.

I would make the point that Jesus promises with absolute terminology...Verily, verily, I say unto you...he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto llife.

They shall not come into condemnation...this is also absolute terminology.

The born again Christian will not be cast into outer darkness.

While the Jewish people can also be said to be the children of the kingdom.

The problem for them is, that not all of them place their complete trust in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross to save them; and that in this, if they do not trust in the finished work of the Cross, they are not saved and will be cast into outer darkness.

Their condemnation has nothing to do with the fact that they are Jewish; everything to do with the fact that they reject the true Messiah.

You are vastly miscalculating God's ways and His judgments. You are as blind as the Jews were in the OT. You are thinking that somehow God favours Gentiles over Jews by giving them a license to sin...and all is well. So you are completely negating God's voice, His words, His fear, His worship....etc.

God doesn't change.

He didn't become senile one day and decided to go soft on sin.

God is after something from us. But as long as we remain self-centered and not realize that we are NO DIFFERENT from the Jews before us...we will fail and perish in the wilderness just as they did...and this in spite of the example given to us.

So we have no excuse. We can only await the same judgment as the previous sons of the kingdom...who also failed to enter in.

God does not respect persons....and He doesn't favour what He does as a gift to us whether it is a natural birth in Israel or a grafting into Israel by the Spirit. SAME thing to God. He is doing everything.

So people do NOT know God's ways and refuse to listen to Him. And this is among born again and natural born members of Israel.

 

[justbyfaith]

What you said is true, as long as its related to the "time of the Gentiles".
As before the "time of the Gentiles', you had no Jesus on the Cross, so, no Jew could "believe on Jesus", in the Old Testament.
In the Great Trib, you will not find the "time of the Gentiles", so, The offer of how to become a child of God, will be different.
It will not be "Grace", and it will not be "justification by faith". ALONE.

You are mistaken.

Jews in the OT were saved also by grace through faith. They merely looked forward to the Cross.

Abraham is a primary example of this in Genesis 15:6. You can also look at the record of Jewish people who were saved by grace through faith in Hebrews 11.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are vastly miscalculating God's ways and His judgments. You are as blind as the Jews were in the OT. You are thinking that somehow God favours Gentiles over Jews by giving them a license to sin...and all is well. So you are completely negating God's voice, His words, His fear, His worship....etc.

God doesn't change.

He didn't become senile one day and decided to go soft on sin.

God is after something from us. But as long as we remain self-centered and not realize that we are NO DIFFERENT from the Jews before us...we will fail and perish in the wilderness just as they did...and this in spite of the example given to us.

So we have no excuse. We can only await the same judgment as the previous sons of the kingdom...who also failed to enter in.

God forgives sin through the precious blood of His only begotten Son.

This is not going soft on sin; because in forgiving us He also provided the Holy Ghost who enables us to live a holy life; and He also sanctifies us through His blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

 

[Episkopos]

God forgives sin through the precious blood of His only begotten Son.

This is not going soft on sin; because in forgiving us He also provided the Holy Ghost who enables us to live a holy life; and He also sanctifies us through His blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

God ALWAYS was merciful towards sinners. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just they who say they selfishly claim the sacrifice for themselves. That is to be a thief. It is the very opposite of humility and what God justifies. But rich spoiled Westerners see everything for themselves. So they are on the wrath side.

God is exposing wicked hearts with His grace and sacrifice. But be assured that only they who fear God in broken humility will actually inherit life.

See how deceived the people are.

 

[Stan B]

So, what i will do, is post the 4 basic theories on who "all Israel" is....and you can do the study.

1. The Jews – Every Jew who has ever lived is “all Israel”.
2. The Church – Jews and Gentiles deemed to have been saved
3. The chosen remnant – all Jewish believers throughout history.
4. Ethnic Israel – the people of Israel will receive salvation at the end of days.

And Stan, there are even more ideas about who is Israel, Jews..
This is a rabbit Trail and i tend keep my people away from it..

I tend to be a rather simple-minded person who has been studying Scripture for the past 65 years. While I have heard lots of theories during that time, most of them taking away from what Scripture says, I have learned to take the clear statements of Scripture at face value, without adding or subtracting from what is stated. And I fully accept that ALL Israel, ALL of the seed of Israel will be saved.

My thoughts are that the times of the Gentiles end after the 6th seal has been opened, and the 144,000 are sealed Rev 7, while the church is taken up out of the great tribulation Rev 7 before the 7th seal is opened. I believe that God removes the partial-blindness from Israel.

While the Bride of Christ has been taken up, it is now time for God to focus upon being reconciled with his wife.

 

[justbyfaith]

God ALWAYS was merciful towards sinners. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just they who say they selfishly claim the sacrifice for themselves. That is to be a thief. It is the very opposite of humility and what God justifies. But rich spoiled Westerners see everything for themselves. So they are on the wrath side.

God is exposing wicked hearts with His grace and sacrifice. But be assured that only they who fear God in broken humility will actually inherit life.

See how deceived the people are.

God always did save sinners through the Cross and through the Cross alone. People in the OT merely looked forward to the Cross.

Also, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2).

 

[Behold]

You are as blind as the Jews were in the OT. You are thinking that somehow God favours Gentiles over Jews by giving them a license to sin..

You do realize that only a Legalist, who opposes Paul's "justification by Faith" doctrine, believes that the Grace of God is a "license to sin"?

The reality is, there is no such thing as a "license to sin".
Unbelievers are sinners, who dont need a license.
Believer's are Saints, who are the Righteousness of God, and there is no sin found "in Christ" where the born again Exist.
So, in both cases, the bumper sticker "license to sin", is just completely unrelated .

This term is just noise.