Positionally.
In the sense of the fact of indwelling sin, scripture is clear that if we say we don't have it, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
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In the sense of the fact of indwelling sin, scripture is clear that if we say we don't have it, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Yes, ive heard all that, or similar.
And i also take the NT at "face value", tho, like you, i understand that verses can be symbolic or allegorical.
Some believers will argue a symbolic verse in place of a Literal verse, all day and all night.
Most believers will take one verse and try to make the NT teach it.
God laid out the NT so that you have to "study to show YOURSELF approved", In other words in command of the doctrines, of the theology.
You approve yourself by being a person who has studied, has been given revelation, and can teach the NT so that you are not insulting the Cross when you do it.
It really comes down to .....does a person's theology, agree with God's Grace or try to substitute it for "works" and "self".
When i discern a person's theology, i only listen for one thing.......Do they agree with the Cross or do that deny it.
A Cross denier, is a person that Give the Cross and Jesus's blood, some credit but not all Credit for saving them and KEEPING them Saved.
To have God's righteousness is to be as Righteous as God.
I have it.
If i was not that same Righteousness, .. if the born again were not, then God would not take us, would not accept us, and would not keep us.
So, LITERALLY, not "positionally", the BLOOD of JESUS has removed ALL sin,.... and in its Place, God has imputed- charged us with, given to us a "the Gift of Righteousness"......HIS.
If there is sin in God's Righteousness, then good luck finding it, tho you are breaking your back on this forum trying to prove there is Sin found in God's Righteousness.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Those things that are allegorical are always footnoted by Scripture, like "Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:"
Same with Revelation, you will usually find the symbolism explained the next chapter.
Other than that, declaring mere symbolism is most often used to shoe-horn Scripture into their predetermined ideology.
I am not trying to prove anything.
The scriptures bear witness to the fact that I am simply telling the truth on this matter; they side with my pov.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8.
The scripture has concluded all under sin; that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Galatians 3:22.
For all have sinned and come short (present tense) of the glory of God. Romans 3:23.
So, you are claiming to be without sin in the practical sense?
You don't commit sin?
When is the last time you committed a sin?
In the sense of, what might be practically called a sin if the law applied to you.
Because you claim that your sinlessness is not merely positional but practical.
So, if the law defines something that you do as a sin, you cannot say that you have not really sinned because you are not under the law. That would be not sinning positionally.
I am talking about practically.
When is the last time you did something that the law of the OT and NT defines as sin?
I wish that all symbolic verses were as you say.. footnoted or by Jesus saying..>"this one is a parable, fellas".
Its not always the case, brother.
As a matter of fact, the Devil uses symbolic parts found in John 15 to ruin almost as many believers as he uses Hebrews 6 & 10 to ruin them for other reasons.
In the case of John 15, Jesus does not footnote, and its not represented as "in a parable"...Its just Jesus speaking symbolically in some of it, and in other places Literally, and its all in the same few verses.
Million of believers can't separate the symbolic from the literal and end up destroyed by Legalism, that caught them, in that Chapter.
John does not have sin.
He didnt have any when he said "if we say we have no sin".
You can't understand this...
This is why when you read John talking to the Born again, in chapter 3, he says the Born again can't sin.
These are not contradictions.
And you are not able to understand why.
Why can't you see that access is not the same as having? A world of difference! There are going to be great shocks on judgment day.
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. You are not understanding God's ways.
The born again, while he has indwelling sin, still does not have to sin and it is true of him that he "does not" and "cannot" sin (1 John 3:9) and that the one who abideth in Christ "sinneth not" (1 John 3:6); because the element of sin is rendered dead within the flesh of the sanctified believer (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8); so that it no longer has any authority over his behaviour.
There is no contradiction, and I do understand why.
As a matter of fact, I just explained it to you.
Sure. But do you? Are you sure you have not downgraded the gospel to something a person can do without a full surrender and entering in at the narrow door?
The crucified walk is by resurrection life. Very very few know that walk...especially in these times of a false gospel that uses the words but has no power.
There is no practical sense.
There is just the Spiritual Truth.
The Truth is, all the born again have become Jesus's righteousness, and Jesus has become ALL their sin.
Colossians 2:13
So, what part of "ALL" is giving you the problem in your understanding for the last Month??
"All sin" is forgiven, and to be forgiven means its GONE.
So, when you worry about "sin", you are being concerned about what God does not even realize.
He only realizes and SEEs the Blood Atonement.
Sin can't be both forgiven and still there.
JESUS HAS IT on the CROSS, and died and resolved ALL SIN.
Do i sin?
There is no sin " in Christ." and im there.
There is only walking in the Flesh or walking in the Spirit., which has to do with Right believing or wrong believing.
Is there "standing" vs" state"?
Sure.
A believer's STANDING is ETERNAL, is a Son of God, born again ,SAINT.....body of Christ, Bride of Christ, "as Jesus is, so are the born again, in this world".
But there is a believer's state is FEELINGS.
State, is emotional feelings. "i hate this red light". "i hate hot weather". "anger", "I feel depressed". " i feel sad"... "i feel feel feel feel feeL"
So, Standing never changes, while State is always in flux.
Sin, is related to the Law's dominion which gives it authority to define you as a sinner, if you are not born again.
Once a person is born again, "Christ removes the curse of the Law" from the born again... and so the law has no more authority to define a born again person as a sinner.
This is why Romans 4:8 says that GOD does not charge you for "sin".
God can't charge you for what does not exist "under GRACE", nor can He judge Jesus on the Cross and also you for the SAME SIN.
God has judged Jesus for ALL sin....past, present, future, Colossians 2:13 which resolves it, and because we are not under the law but "under Grace" we cant be defined as a sinner.
What you have that you think is "indwelling sin" is not. Its Sin consciousness......
Sin is resolved, remitted, and redeemed. That is the finished work of Jesus ON the Cross.
But the mind of the flesh, in you.... is able to become agin under the dominion of the law by wrong believing and this activates "sin consciousness" which through the Law. (The power of sin is the Law)..will activate your flesh and you will do works of the flesh.
These..
19 """Now the works of the FLEHS= are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,."""
Gnosticism 101 There is no practice of the truth...just a pseudo-spiritual idea of having a right belief.
The "narrow Door" is Jesus Himself.
"All that come to God must come Through Me".. "no one comes to the Father but Through/By ME"..... Jesus is THE WAY, the truth and the Live".
The "narrow way", is JESUS, = Born again.
Episkopos, you think that doing good and being earnest and giving all for Christ.....that this self effort is the narrow way.
its not.
Thats just Legalism.
Quote some Gnosticism verses, from their theology.
You've never done this even once, yet you accused me of this lie, over 30+ times.
You've never given the forum and the members here, or the MODS, any Literal Gnostic Quotes, so that they can compare your lying to my Theology that i got from Paul.
So, post some early Church, Gnosis, Gnosticism, Theology, from these false teachers, so that the honest believers here, including the Mods, can discover just how dishonest and deceptive you enjoy being, on a Christian Forum.
So, there is sin in Christ?
Then Jesus doesn't have your sin?
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So you are saying that walking in the flesh is not sin if you are born again?
That means that we are without sin only in the sense of positionally...however we do have the flesh; and sin in the flesh.
I am not really conscious of the sin that indwells my flesh most of the time; but I believe what God's word says in 1 John 1:8 that I have indwelling sin
It is utterly ridiculous to say that the things listed here are not sins.
If you want to be accurate concerning the whole matter, say that they are sins but that they are not imputed to the believer in Christ.
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Very true! If you don't believe, you don't have access. Only if you do. Disbelieving causes you to not avail yourself, because you don't think it's real.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Okay, point well taken. I suppose I encountered that as I was going through Rev 6 and the 3rd seal a few days ago, which says "do not damage the oil and the wine." And I got to wondering what is so special about the [olive] oil and the wine?
Then it struck me, that he was talking about the fruit of the Olive tree, and the Grapevine, both symbols of Israel, which I envision as a special protection for the people of Israel mandated during the 3rd seal. ??
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I have never been ruined by John 15.
(while Hebrews 6 and 10 did do a number on me in times past. God worked it out for the good though; I came back stronger.)
(while Hebrews 6 and 10 did do a number on me in times past. God worked it out for the good though; I came back stronger.)
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