The unstable mind?

[VictoryinJesus]

This is a general question. I was going to post it under non- Christian, general questions but was alerted ‘You have insufficient privileges to post threads here’

I’m working on a story about an atheist “pagan”physiologist being told, narrated, the story of the daughter of a religious-extremist Reverend after his demise. The story is told by one of the victims of the daughter of the Reverend. A young girl telling of what happened. The Reverends only daughter is reclusive in her old age and because of the indoctrination of her fathers’ strict views on punishment—in old age the woman doesn’t take well to trespassers. As a group of teens soon discover; intruding in the woman’s world will cost them an up-close encounter with the Religious- extremists’ indoctrinated daughter. To outsiders the daughter of the Reverend with her pack of dogs is extreme. To the Reverends daughter; her life is right and just; and all outsiders are wrong and worthy of judgment.

Why post here though? Because the story has caused this question for me. Regarding the plea of insanity and not able to stand trial for judgement. This is under man’s system…of what is fair, yea? I get it is a hard question in the sense that if I ever knew what is done by people behind closed doors, I would say a plea of insanity is bogus. A way of not suffering the consequences of your actions. How they deserve to pay for what they have done. Even if it is death. But that is not what I’m asking about.

I asking about the trial and judgment of God. For example if someone is blind, so messed up in the mind, of an unstable mind, that they can’t hear or see or understand a thing. why would man consider a plea of insanity for the unstable mind —-whether someone of an unstable mind is able to stand trial— but God in Judgement and Trial doesn’t consider the unstable mind as if it (the unstable)is able to stand trial?

Just asking for perspective… not to start a debate, but only put it here under debate because I couldn’t put it outside under general questions… and just how “unstable” is an “unstable mind”? How does man determine stable enough? How does God determine “stable” to stand trial and judgment? I get to claim insanity can be a means to an end of escape. But God who sees the heart and knows the mind of the Spirit … does He judge between the unstable mind and the stable mind …and what about the unstable not by mens term but by God’s seeing? What falls under “unstable” yet will stand trial?

 

[Lambano]

A piece of legal trivia I picked up from Helter Skelter, a book about the Manson family by the prosecutor who had them convicted of murder-1. The legal definition of "not guilty by reason of insanity" (at the time the book was written) is that the accused is not mentally capable of understanding that society considers their actions morally wrong. (Which is not to say that the accused themselves don't think of their own actions as morally wrong; they usually don't.)

As for how God judges messed up people (know any?) who may not understand that what they did was wrong in His eyes... That's probably what you really wanted to talk about, and I am reluctant to speculate. Perhaps Jonah 4:11 applies: Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A piece of legal trivia I picked up from Helter Skelter, a book about the Manson family by the prosecutor who had them convicted of murder-1. The legal definition of "not guilty by reason of insanity" (at the time the book was written) is that the accused is not mentally capable of understanding that society considers their actions morally wrong. (Which is not to say that the accused themselves don't think of their own actions as morally wrong; they usually don't.)

As for how God judges messed up people (know any?) who may not understand that what they did was wrong in His eyes... That's probably what you really wanted to talk about, and I am reluctant speculate. Perhaps Romans 4:15 applies: " .. For the Law (Torah, the Bible) brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. "

Thank you for your reply. I did not know that about being able to know society considers it morally wrong. That is scary in and of itself. the bar is set by society of what is morally wrong.

Yes, you are correct what I wanted to talk about was how God measures messed up people. You asked if I know any. Yes. I am one of them. In the story there is a girl who protects her younger sister from the daughter of the religious-extremist. After counseling …the counselor pointed out I’m the girl; protecting a younger version of herself, the younger sister. . And I am also the religious-extremist. Also the dogs in the story are my (irrational fears) that keep me caged and trapped. Point is… I’ve known unstable. I originally wrote the story always with the notion of some redemption for the antagonist. Creating her flawed and unstable, but still worth mercy. It is all fiction. But it does have me considering what isn’t fiction, and asking about an unstable mind. how unstable before the inability to see wrong, becomes deserving of no mercy. As men judge who is capable of standing for trial. Yes, it does make me think of God’s judgement and trial. And who is stable enough for trial.

You helped.

 

[Wynona]

Am not sure how to answer. Ive experienced intense spells of mental illness. I still hold myself accountable for bad decisions I made during those times. Its odd but I was still "me" during those times. And taking responsibility brought the most healing of myself and others.

Im sure others would disagree.

 

[quietthinker]

This is a general question. I was going to post it under non- Christian, general questions but was alerted ‘You have insufficient privileges to post threads here’

I’m working on a story about an atheist “pagan”physiologist being told, narrated, the story of the daughter of a religious-extremist Reverend after his demise. The story is told by one of the victims of the daughter of the Reverend. A young girl telling of what happened. The Reverends only daughter is reclusive in her old age and because of the indoctrination of her fathers’ strict views on punishment—in old age the woman doesn’t take well to trespassers. As a group of teens soon discover; intruding in the woman’s world will cost them an up-close encounter with the Religious- extremists’ indoctrinated daughter. To outsiders the daughter of the Reverend with her pack of dogs is extreme. To the Reverends daughter; her life is right and just; and all outsiders are wrong and worthy of judgment.

Why post here though? Because the story has caused this question for me. Regarding the plea of insanity and not able to stand trial for judgement. This is under man’s system…of what is fair, yea? I get it is a hard question in the sense that if I ever knew what is done by people behind closed doors, I would say a plea of insanity is bogus. A way of not suffering the consequences of your actions. How they deserve to pay for what they have done. Even if it is death. But that is not what I’m asking about.

I asking about the trial and judgment of God. For example if someone is blind, so messed up in the mind, of an unstable mind, that they can’t hear or see or understand a thing. why would man consider a plea of insanity for the unstable mind —-whether someone of an unstable mind is able to stand trial— but God in Judgement and Trial doesn’t consider the unstable mind as if it (the unstable)is able to stand trial?

Just asking for perspective… not to start a debate, but only put it here under debate because I couldn’t put it outside under general questions… and just how “unstable” is an “unstable mind”? How does man determine stable enough? How does God determine “stable” to stand trial and judgment? I get to claim insanity can be a means to an end of escape. But God who sees the heart and knows the mind of the Spirit … does He judge between the unstable mind and the stable mind …and what about the unstable not by mens term but by God’s seeing? What falls under “unstable” yet will stand trial?

Ahhhh, 'The Judgement of God' !
Could it be our hearing which needs attention? What do I mean by that? If I was to say, 'the judgement of ViJ' what would be concluded?
Would it be that ViJ is being judged or would it be that ViJ is doing the judging?

When we read, 'the judgement of God' we conclude that God is doing the judging, but why is that if when I say 'the judgement of ViJ', we conclude and mean that ViJ in being judged?

There is more to say about this but let's see if there is any interest in exploring this matter?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ahhhh, 'The Judgement of God' !
Could it be our hearing which needs attention? What do I mean by that? If I was to say, 'the judgement of ViJ' what would be concluded?
Would it be that ViJ is being judged or would it be that ViJ is doing the judging?

When we read, 'the judgement of God' we conclude that God is doing the judging, but why is that if when I say 'the judgement of ViJ', we conclude and mean that ViJ in being judged?

There is more to say about this but let's see if there is any interest in exploring this matter?

One thing that stands out to me about Gods’ Judgement is Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

To me that God is Judge is His Judgement to do good to the widows …and not evil? Another Judgement to be a father to the fatherless?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Its quite possible that Manson's girls, and perhaps "Tex" were all on an LSD Trip when they began their murdering.
So, in that state of mind, are they able to think in terms of morality, or "right and wrong", as "society sees it".. as they are killing?

What if you believe you understand something, that you believe is veiled by conspiracy to keep it hidden from "society"...your country?
So, you blow up a USA Federal Building in Oklahoma City... that kills many.
You are put to death for this, and later we see in the USA that the FBI and the central Government are being used to try to keep Trump out of the White House..... This entire system created a lie against Him, "Trump is a RUSSIAN Agent". "He and Putin are the SAME" ect, ect.
That came from the USA Gov........inside the FBI, and it was a created false narrative, complete with fake papers.
That is "Soviet Russia" gameplay.
Their Government is in need of cleansing, and their Declaration of Independence says that when their Gov becomes a Monster, against morality, the society, all of this....then the people are supposed to get them out by force, not by Vote, and the Voting is too corrupted, as well.
So, this is the "conspiracy" that is the "deep state", that is working in the USA Government....that Timothy McVey understood when He tried to do what He thought would reveal this very situation.
He was a bit ahead of His time... with that bomb......and of course, he had to be put to death for the murders, as he did murder people.

"tho shalt not murder".

Paul said.>"if i do anything worthy of death then put me to death".

And he didnt, and they cut off His head, in the end, anyway.

(Evil world) (Avoid being a part of it).

But see …what if we have the mind we are doing right (persuaded and convinced of it) but we are doing wrong? And we can’t even see it as wrong? Can one stand in Judgment and be tried having an unstable mind …for example like the double-minded man who is unstable in all his ways. Under man’s trial a double-minded man who is unstable would be pronounced unstable to stand a trial? By reason of insanity. No?

 

[quietthinker]

One thing that stands out to me about Gods’ Judgement is Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

To me that God is Judge is His Judgement to do good to the widows …and not evil? Another Judgement to be a father to the fatherless?

so the judgements are all positive?

 

[Behold]

But see …what if we have the mind we are doing right (persuaded and convinced of it) but we are doing wrong? And we can’t even see it as wrong? Can one stand in Judgment and be tried having an unstable mind …for example like the double-minded man who is unstable in all his ways. Under man’s trial a double-minded man who is unstable would be pronounced unstable to stand a trial? By reason of insanity. No?

"Deception"...= "being deceived".

If a person knew they were deceived, they would stop.

If a person understood that commandments didn't die on the Cross for them, they'd stop trusting in commandments to try to go to Heaven.
But because they are 'deceived"....they can't see their wrong thinking.
If a person could understand that water baptism didnt die on The Cross for their sin, then they would stop believing that because they are water baptized they are saved..
They can't SEE their deception, so they keep believing that lie.

Also, "cold blooded murder" is the decision to do it.....and you proceed.
That mind is not double, its determined....its very single minded.

That is different than being confused, about.... "which way should i go"....
Its like that Joke..

"When you come to a fork in the road......take it".

Or that phrase.... ... "you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything".

or..

"if you don't know where you are going, then any road will take you there"...

See all that? That is "living in indecision", or, being "double minded".

Its......."I think, but im not sure, so, maybe i should think about it some more, but, i already have been doing that same thinking over and over for 2 yrs". "And now its too late to solve the problem"... "as i should have solved it, instead of thinking about it instead"...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so the judgements are all positive?

That is a hard question. Hopefully someone else can answer that.

But I would say yes.

 

[Behold]

so the judgements are all positive?

Whatever God does, He's perfectly right everytime He does it.

Healing
Blessing.
Judging
Cursing
Damning
Restoring
Forgiving
Chastening
Wounding
Forgetting
Remembering
Exalting


Whatever...

 

[quietthinker]

Whatever God does, He's perfectly right everytime He does it.

Healing
Blessing.
Judging
Cursing
Damning
Restoring
Forgiving
Chastening
Wounding
Forgetting
Remembering
Exalting


Whatever...

sounds perfectly contradictory!
A convenient way to justify our (human) way of operating.....even superimposing it onto God so we can shift the blame while exonerating ourselves, wouldn't you say?

Insurance companies play the same game. They call certain disasters, 'acts of God'.....a clever way of lining their pockets.
Do we as people who claim to be God's people do the same?

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? ... “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked.

James 3:11
11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so the judgements are all positive?

Considering the forgetting one.
I see it as positive.
where He says “I never knew you, depart from me, you that work iniquity.” It sounds like “let us cast off the darkness, and put on the armour of Light” or “put off the old man with his deeds” or “putting off the body of sins by the body of Christ” or that “you put off concerning the former conversation that old man” and even “put of this tabernacle as Christ has shown me” …how is it not positive “depart from me, you that work iniquity” with all the times he instructs to “put off” “cast off” remove —-depart from—that old man, that body of sin, cast off the darkness=you who works iniquity. Depart. To me “I never knew you” is how completely his saying I will “remember you no more” you who works iniquity; darkness, death, sins, that former conversation in the lust of the flesh, that old man who works iniquity. Cast off the darkness and put on the armour of Light, Put on Christ. Sounds to me God isn’t doing something against His Nature but for His Nature. So, yes, positive.

 

[quietthinker]

Considering the forgetting one.
I see it as positive.
where He says “I never knew you, depart from me, you that work iniquity.” It sounds like “let us cast off the darkness, and put on the armour of Light” or “put off the old man with his deeds” or “putting off the body of sins by the body of Christ” or that “you put off concerning the former conversation that old man” and even “put of this tabernacle as Christ has shown me” …how is it not positive “depart from me, you that work iniquity” with all the times he instructs to “put off” “cast off” remove —-depart from—that old man, that body of sin, cast off the darkness=you who works iniquity. Depart. To me “I never knew you” is how completely his saying I will “remember you no more” you who works iniquity; darkness, death, sins, that former conversation in the lust of the flesh, that old man who works iniquity. Cast off the darkness and put on the armour of Light, Put on Christ. Sounds to me God isn’t doing something against His Nature but for His Nature. So, yes, positive.

Consider this way of hearing 'the judgement of God';

We judge God worthy of our worship or not worthy of it......yes, God is being judged by us.

The Good News says, 'you are accepted in the beloved' ......'while we were yet sinners Christ died for the ungodly' and there are many more verses which affirm this affection God has for us.

God's determination is that humanity has been brought into the family of God. Man's determination; at least those who are not interested, is to judge God unworthy of their allegiance, adoration and worship......and so Jesus say's 'I never knew you'.....not because he didn't love them but because they weren't interested in a relationship with him......they judged him unworthy.

 

[Enoch111]

I [am] asking about the trial and judgment of God. For example if someone is blind, so messed up in the mind, of an unstable mind, that they can’t hear or see or understand a thing. why would man consider a plea of insanity for the unstable mind —-whether someone of an unstable mind is able to stand trial— but God in Judgement and Trial doesn’t consider the unstable mind as if it (the unstable)is able to stand trial?

In response to this I would note that:

1. Mental illness is a fact of life, and probably more prevalent than we know.

2. Mental illness and mental instability go hand in hand, but that is not the same as insanity.

3. Mental illness could be self-induced, drug induced, or demon induced. We see demons at work in the man from Gadara who was healed by Christ, and that as a result was finally in "his right mind".

4. God knows precisely what each case of mental illness, mental instability, or insanity consists of. So He would deal with these people differently from those who are in their right minds and commit various crimes.

5. God is longsuffering and merciful to the vilest sinners, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

6. At the same time God has ordained that governments have a responsibility to deal with criminals, and that the execution of criminals for heinous crimes is in fact justice approved by God. See Romans 13.

 

[quietthinker]

al

In response to this I would note that:

1. Mental illness is a fact of life, and probably more prevalent than we know.

2. Mental illness and mental instability go hand in hand, but that is not the same as insanity.

3. Mental illness could be self-induced, drug induced, or demon induced. We see demons at work in the man from Gadara who was healed by Christ, and that as a result was finally in "his right mind".

4. God knows precisely what each case of mental illness, mental instability, or insanity consists of. So He would deal with these people differently from those who are in their right minds and commit various crimes.

5. God is longsuffering and merciful to the vilest sinners, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

6. At the same time God has ordained that governments have a responsibility to deal with criminals, and that the execution of criminals for heinous crimes is in fact justice approved by God. See Romans 13.

All of humanity is afflicted with mental illness revealed in the reality of selfishness. The logic runs along the lines of survival of the fittest; it's the primary business model rewarded with accolades.

 

[Wrangler]

Regarding the plea of insanity and not able to stand trial for judgement. This is under man’s system…of what is fair, yea?

Obviously, man's system of justice is imperfect. It should be guilty by reason of insanity. Let me explain.

There are 2 phases to a trial. (1). Determination of guilt; (2). Sentencing. The fact that someone is factually guilty should have nothing to do with their mental state. However, the sentencing should take into consideration their mental state.

Hope this helps.

 

[David in NJ]

This is a general question. I was going to post it under non- Christian, general questions but was alerted ‘You have insufficient privileges to post threads here’

I’m working on a story about an atheist “pagan”physiologist being told, narrated, the story of the daughter of a religious-extremist Reverend after his demise. The story is told by one of the victims of the daughter of the Reverend. A young girl telling of what happened. The Reverends only daughter is reclusive in her old age and because of the indoctrination of her fathers’ strict views on punishment—in old age the woman doesn’t take well to trespassers. As a group of teens soon discover; intruding in the woman’s world will cost them an up-close encounter with the Religious- extremists’ indoctrinated daughter. To outsiders the daughter of the Reverend with her pack of dogs is extreme. To the Reverends daughter; her life is right and just; and all outsiders are wrong and worthy of judgment.

Why post here though? Because the story has caused this question for me. Regarding the plea of insanity and not able to stand trial for judgement. This is under man’s system…of what is fair, yea? I get it is a hard question in the sense that if I ever knew what is done by people behind closed doors, I would say a plea of insanity is bogus. A way of not suffering the consequences of your actions. How they deserve to pay for what they have done. Even if it is death. But that is not what I’m asking about.

I asking about the trial and judgment of God. For example if someone is blind, so messed up in the mind, of an unstable mind, that they can’t hear or see or understand a thing. why would man consider a plea of insanity for the unstable mind —-whether someone of an unstable mind is able to stand trial— but God in Judgement and Trial doesn’t consider the unstable mind as if it (the unstable)is able to stand trial?

Just asking for perspective… not to start a debate, but only put it here under debate because I couldn’t put it outside under general questions… and just how “unstable” is an “unstable mind”? How does man determine stable enough? How does God determine “stable” to stand trial and judgment? I get to claim insanity can be a means to an end of escape. But God who sees the heart and knows the mind of the Spirit … does He judge between the unstable mind and the stable mind …and what about the unstable not by mens term but by God’s seeing? What falls under “unstable” yet will stand trial?

Well, we know that God is exponentially more knowing, intelligent and merciful then we can ever be.

Every person who stands before God will not be in the same mental condition(s) when they left earth.

There will be clarity of mind when God speaks to each individual.

God judges the motives of a mans heart - Jeremiah ch17 and Romans ch2

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Consider this way of hearing 'the judgement of God';

We judge God worthy of our worship or not worthy of it......yes, God is being judged by us.

The Good News says, 'you are accepted in the beloved' ......'while we were yet sinners Christ died for the ungodly' and there are many more verses which affirm this affection God has for us.

God's determination is that humanity has been brought into the family of God. Man's determination; at least those who are not interested, is to judge God unworthy of their allegiance, adoration and worship......and so Jesus say's 'I never knew you'.....not because he didn't love them but because they weren't interested in a relationship with him......they judged him unworthy.

Thank you for sharing. What you said makes me consider judging Him unworthy of His Will being done. Insisting our own.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Mental illness could be self-induced, drug induced, or demon induced. We see demons at work in the man from Gadara who was healed by Christ, and that as a result was finally in "his right mind".

Love this, how you accentuated that as a result was finally in “his right mind”.

Similar to God has given us the Spirit of power, of Love, and of a “Sound Mind” …sometimes I question how sound my mind is. And yes, also the debated “sound doctrine”. In regards to the thread on an unstable mind… what you brought up makes me consider the opposite of the Spirit of power, of Love, and a sound mind. The spirit the world gives of fear unto bondage again. To me that “fear” unto bondage is not the same “fear” of “Fearing the Lord” but is “fearing” unto a mind that is not sound as in “mens hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things coming upon the earth. …upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and waves roaring. Luke 21:25-26 that does seem to fit well with todays roar, distress and perplexity …the spirit of fear unto bondage again, that spirit the world gives. I do think “right mind” as Legion shows is of importance, as is, being of a “sound mind”