There are no Catholics in Heaven.

[Truther]

That verse must be understood in the light of the whole Gospel. It shows the importance of keeping water baptism and salvation together, since all who believed were baptized immediately, or almost immediately. Study the book of Acts, and also the words of Christ in John 11:25,26 (which do not mention water baptism).

Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are "sister" verses. Mark 16:16 tells us to be baptized to be saved ans Acts 2:38 tells us what to say to be baptized to be saved.

 

[Truther]

What'a ya know - we agree.
The Bible is clear - we are SAVED at Baptism (1 Pet. 3:21, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16).

Hallelujah!

 

[Mungo]

Well Scripture refutes your position.

ACTS 16: BELIEVING PRECEDES WATER BAPTISM
25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [Note: no mention of baptism]
32 And they spake unto him the Word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. [Note: the Word of the Lord = the Gospel]
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

This follows the same sequence as all the other incidents in the book of Acts: (1) the Gospel is preached, (2) sinners believe on Christ and are saved, and (3) they are then baptized and go on their way rejoicing.

I think it's the other way round. Your quote supports my claims not yours.

Paul did not tell them that if they believed they would be save immediately and then they should be baptised to simply confirms that they are saved.

Jesus said faith + baptism = salvation and that is what we see here. they are told to believe, and when they do they are baptised. that is when salvation occurs. The baptism part was so important it was done immediately.

Jesus said
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mt 28:19)
In these words Jesus sets out the basic methodology our initial justification
preach the gospel; believe the gospel; be baptised.

What we see here in Acts 16 is this basic methodology in practice.
Paul preached the gospel. They believed . They were baptised.
You can see the same pattern being used by Peter at Pentecost (Acts 2:14-20), Philip in Samaria (Acts 8:5-12), Philip with the Ethiopian (Acts 8:26-38), Cornelius (Acts 10:34-48), Lydia (Acts 16:13-15) and the 12 men at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-5)

 

[Behold]

FYI...

Some, would falsely claim that "all Behold does is expose the Catholic Cult of MARY" in His Threads.

However, the reality is,...in the nearly 3 months ive been here, and of the over 60 Threads that ive posted on this Forum...... Ive written 4 regarding the Cult of Mary.
2 were deleted, and 2 remain.

Just so you know.


<B><
-
-

 

[Behold]

There is no way out of working your own salvation out.

The devil's gospel is this. "keep yourself saved by self effort."

Many believe this false gospel, and these are found to be "self savers".
They have ripped Jesus off the Nails and they are now up on their OWN Cross of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS =trying to keep from losing their salvation by doing WORKS.
They have "fallen from Grace", they teach a false gospel that is ... The Cross + Self effort, and Paul says that these, if born again, are "in the flesh" and are Galatians 1:8

Here is the correct understanding of "work out your salvation, in awe and wonder".

Its means this.

You HAVE It.
Salvation is YOURS, if you are born again. Its already completed by CHRIST ON THE CROSS, as "the finished WORK of Jesus", and God gives it you as "the GIFT of Salvation" when you give God your FAITH. "justified by FAITH, without works, without deeds of the law".

GRACE is not GRACE if it requires YOU to earn it or keep it.

So, to work out your salvation, is not to try to keep from losing it, as ALL the heretics teach, but its the understanding that now that you have Salvation, now that you are IN The Kingdom of GOD, .. you have to learn how to exist and operate within this SPIRITUAL REALM.

THAT is HOW you "work out".
You dont work to keep it.....you work IN IT, learning how to exist IN IT, perfectly, by right believing.

 

[Truther]

The devil's gospel is this. "keep yourself saved by self effort."

Many believe this false gospel, and these are found to be "self savers".
They have ripped Jesus off the Nails and they are now up on their OWN Cross of SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS =trying to keep from losing their salvation by doing WORKS.
They have "fallen from Grace", they teach a false gospel that is ... The Cross + Self effort, and Paul says that these, if born again, are "in the flesh" and are Galatians 1:8

Here is the correct understanding of "work out your salvation, in awe and wonder".

Its means this.

You HAVE It.
Salvation is YOURS, if you are born again. Its already completed by CHRIST ON THE CROSS, as "the finished WORK of Jesus", and God gives it you as "the GIFT of Salvation" when you give God your FAITH. "justified by FAITH, without works, without deeds of the law".

GRACE is not GRACE if it requires YOU to earn it or keep it.

So, to work out your salvation, is not to try to keep from losing it, as ALL the heretics teach, but its the understanding that now that you have Salvation, now that you are IN The Kingdom of GOD, .. you have to learn how to exist and operate within this SPIRITUAL REALM.

THAT is HOW you "work out".
You dont work to keep it.....you work IN IT, learning how to exist IN IT, perfectly, by right believing.

look, thinking and speaking is works.

If you think(believe) and speak(confess), you are working.

So, unless you go into a coma, you are working on your salvation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hi, BOL, sorry, but Polycarp sounds like a fish, lol.

All believers make up the universal Church, and another word for universal is catholic. Perhaps the organization that came to be known as the Catholic Church should have chosen another name because it has NEVER represented ALL believers on earth at any one time. IF Polycarp was saying that it did, then he had it wrong. At present, the CC doesn't even represent most believers on earth.

I believe it was Jesus Christ who said, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matt 18:20).

That's why I prefaced my post with "'IF' you are a language teacher - this should interest you."
Apparently, it didn't, because it doesn't seem that you take languages seriously.

As I stated, Ignatius was was appointed to the Bishopric of Antioch by Apostle Peter, was a student of the Apostle John, who learned from Christ Himself. This was not some guy who learned about Christ 1500 years later, separated by dozens of generations. The "Catholic Church" was being used as a Title - not just a description - by the end of the First century.

Unless you believe that Jesus lied in Matt. 16:18, when He guaranteed that the gates of hell would NOT prevail against His Church - then your current position is flawed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your pope prays to plastic life-size statues of Mary.
Your leader, states that mary is a Queen, a virgin, and a mediatrix.
These are lies.
You follow a liar, and you yourself are not honest about it.
So, you can post all the photos you like, but what you wont find is a real Christian bowing before "the mother of God" or before a plastic statue of Jesus or Mary, or St WHOMEVER.
Listen cultist,... a Real Christian will never ever do this....not ever.
That is not you, and that is not your pope.
You are the victim of the cult of mary, and you have not good sense to realize it.
I tried to help you.
You are beyond it.

In other words - you have NO answer for why you guys build graven images to men like Calvin and Luther.
That's pretty much what I thought.

You make it SO easy to expose you . . .

 

[Truther]

In other words - you have NO answer for why you guys build graven images to men like Calvin and Luther.
That's pretty much what I thought.

You make it SO easy to expose you . . .

I would like to see a statue of Luther and Mary shaking hands.

Can you order that from HQ?

 

[Mungo]

Study the history of you cult of mary.

Hello Troll,
Would like to explain and discuss this "cult of Mary" obsession you have?
or are you just here to insult?

It was in 1961 that your cult decided to "allow", its deceived victims to ...... = bible.

Hello Troll,
That is untrue. At my secondary school (well before that date) we were obliged to bring a Bible to our RI lessons.
But of course, as usual, you provide zero evidence for your claims,

Your pope prays to plastic life-size statues of Mary.

Hello Troll,
That is untrue,
But of course, as usual, you provide zero evidence for your claims,

Your leader, states that mary is a Queen, a virgin, and a mediatrix.
These are lies.

Hello Troll,
That is untrue. They are not lies
But of course, as usual, you provide zero evidence for your claims,

 

[BreadOfLife]

You just lied again. "son".
What does that make you?
Study the history of you cult of mary.
It was in 1961 that your cult decided to "allow", its deceived victims to ...... = bible.
-
Your pope prays to plastic life-size statues of Mary.
Your leader, states that mary is a Queen, a virgin, and a mediatrix.
These are lies.
You follow a liar, and you yourself are not honest about it.
So, you can post all the photos you like, but what you wont find is a real Christian bowing before "the mother of God" or before a plastic statue of Jesus or Mary, or St WHOMEVER.
Listen cultist, a Real Christian will never ever do this....not ever.
That is not you, and that is not your deceiving pope.
You are the victim of the cult of mary, and you have not good sense to realize it.
I tried to help you.
You are beyond it.

Look below at this pack of lies that you have believed that is spread by your deceiving leader, your "pope".

What'dya know? Another lie.
Big surprise, coming from YOU . . .

Soooooo, you couldn't refute the Scriptural Fortress that is the Catholic Mass? All you could do was to post another desperate attack - like a blind boxer throwing wasted punches into the air . . .

My 92-year-old mother, who just passed away was in Bible studies from her youth - back in the 1930's.
Not only do we read the Bible - we compiled it and declared the Canon that YOU adhere to, son. Here's a little history lesson - so try to pay attention:

- The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified.
- 11 years later, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years after that, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.
- The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

There ends the lesson, son.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unfortunately, any group that disqualifies water baptism from salvation is lost, per Jesus' opinion in Mark 16:16 and Peters' opinion in Acts 2:38.

Then I guess no one Who died pre Mark 16 is saved (Rolling eyes)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What'dya know? Another lie.
Big surprise, coming from YOU . . .

Soooooo, you couldn't refute the Scriptural Fortress that is the Catholic Mass? All you could do was to post another desperate attack - like a blind boxer throwing wasted punches into the air . . .

My 92-year-old mother, who just passed away was in Bible studies from her youth - back in the 1930's.
Not only do we read the Bible - we compiled it and declared the Canon that YOU adhere to, son. Here's a little history lesson - so try to pay attention:

- The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified.
- 11 years later, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years after that, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.
- The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

There ends the lesson, son.

Sadly this post is just as bad as the op having discussed with this person before I can understand somewhat the ops
Frustration

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They were baptised immediately because baptism is the way Jesus gave us for salvation.
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation
Not "He who believes is saved then should be baptised".

um no. Water baptism is not the way to salvation spirit baptism is that’s why it is not mentioned in any of the other gospels namely John

 

[BreadOfLife]

I would like to see a statue of Luther and Mary shaking hands.

Can you order that from HQ?

Actually - Luther was devoted to the Blessed Mother . . .

"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."
"St. Paul says 'God sent his Son born of a woman, ' These words which I hold for true, really sustain quite firmly that Mary is the Mother of God."
(Martin Luther, Martin Luther's Works, vol. 7, pg 592)

"This article of faith- that Mary is the Mother of God- is present in the Church from the beginning and is not a new creation of the council but the presentation of the Gospel and the Scriptures."
(Martin Luther, Martin Luther's Works, vol. 7, pg 572)

"It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."
(Martin Luther, Martin Luther's Works, vol. 24, pg 107)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Mary, a human born in the flesh, sinner, called Christ her savior, Mother of GOD?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with one thing. No denominations in heaven. But heaven will have people who went to different denominations here. We are saved jews although they Jewish priests spoke against god not for him. There can be true believers anywhere. Some people can’t get out of religion it’s hard so they stay.

 

[BreadOfLife]

um no. Water baptism is not the way to salvation spirit baptism is that’s why it is not mentioned in any of the other gospels namely John

You MUST be baptized with water to receive the Holy spirit (John 3:5, Acts 2:38).

We are tangible creatures and God, in His infinite wisdom prescribes tangible means for us to be born again.
Just as Christ used mud to cure the blind man - He prescribes physical means for us to live out our faith.

It's NOT the water that saves.
The water is not the ends - but the MEANS.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mary, a human born in the flesh, sinner, called Christ her savior, Mother of GOD?

She WAS saved. She didn't save herself - otherwise SHE would be a god.
She was saved BEFORE she was born.

 

[Mungo]

um no. Water baptism is not the way to salvation spirit baptism is that’s why it is not mentioned in any of the other gospels namely John

That may be your opinion but you provide no evidence for that opinion.