There Are No People In Heaven / The Kingdom.

[Mr E]

To help with seeing clearly, share a picture of a converted living man, and a picture of a non converted living man, and circle the difference(s). If found to be impossible perhaps there is a belief at play.

Is within you.

Not in a future, not in potential, not while or if something happens, etc, etc.



Is.

There Are No People In Heaven / The Kingdom.​

The kingdom is within you.

Phil, I recognize that landscape on your linked website.... those are the Rocky Mountains just West of my old home town of Calgary Alberta.

 

[Phil .]

Phil, I recognize that landscape on your linked website.... those are the Rocky Mountains just West of my old home town of Calgary Alberta.

Spirit Island, yes?

 

[Mr E]

All scriptures that are cited MUST all be true. It is our job to find out how.

You skipped over a very important passage that addresses the timing of when those in Christ will be taken up:

1 Co 15:20–23 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Another passage that discusses when those who will be resurrected will happen.

Jn 5:28–29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Our destination is not "heaven." It is the New Earth. That is where God's people will go to from the grave after the judgement.

Spyder man..... Ever wonder if 'a new earth' is what is being described in Genesis? And then how about Noah-- after he stepped out of the ark, did he not step into a new earth?

In another place in scripture, it says- that it was in the days of Peleg, that the earth was divided.... some folks think that this refers directly to the time (after the fall of Babel) that the continents were torn apart from a unified land mass, and separated. That would have been a new earth.

I think the new earth is a lot like the old earth--- yet a new beginning. A new season after a great reset of biblical and cataclysmic proportions.

 

[Mr E]

Spirit Island, yes?

Yes-- I think it's called Maligne Lake. Up in Jasper National Park. My wife and I got engaged on an adventure in that region- at Emerald Lake Lodge.

 

[Spyder]

Spyder man..... Ever wonder if 'a new earth' is what is being described in Genesis? And then how about Noah-- after he stepped out of the ark, did he not step into a new earth?

In another place in scripture, it says- that it was in the days of Peleg, that the earth was divided.... some folks think that this refers directly to the time (after the fall of Babel) that the continents were torn apart from a unified land mass, and separated. That would have been a new earth.

I think the new earth is a lot like the old earth--- yet a new beginning. A new season after a great reset of biblical and cataclysmic proportions.

It very well could be. I have not been issued a crystal ball, but I have faith that Yahweh will fulfill his promises. Whatever or however He does it; I look forward to it.

 

[Spyder]

That's a prime example of translation shopping to force the theology you want instead of letting the text explain itself.

Really? Are you sure?

 

[DJT_47]

What is heaven and what is the kingdom? There are heavens (plural), the immediate heaven above us and also paradise, the third heaven.

There's also the kingdom of heaven in heaven itself but also the kingdom of heaven on earth which is the church.

The thief on the cross was in "heaven" with the Lord as was promised, and there are people in the church.

So, your post is a bit nebulous and undefined.

 

[JohnDB]

Really? Are you sure?

Yep, I'm sure.

See, when having a debate you are supposed to support your side of the arguments and not prove mine beyond all doubt.

I'm thinking that you really don't understand how debate works.

 

[Phil .]

Yes-- I think it's called Maligne Lake. Up in Jasper National Park. My wife and I got engaged on an adventure in that region- at Emerald Lake Lodge.

View attachment 43018

Awesome & what a beautiful pic!
Truly heaven.

What is heaven and what is the kingdom?

This.

There are heavens (plural), the immediate heaven above us and also paradise, the third heaven.

That concept is also, this.

There's also the kingdom of heaven in heaven itself but also the kingdom of heaven on earth which is the church.

That concept is also this.

The thief on the cross was in "heaven" with the Lord as was promised, and there are people in the church.

That concept is this too!

So, your post is a bit nebulous and undefined.

So… that one too!

 

[Phil .]

Yep, I'm sure.

See, when having a debate you are supposed to support your side of the arguments and not prove mine beyond all doubt.

I'm thinking that you really don't understand how debate works.

There’s no assertion.
No one forcing you to waste your life arguing & debating in heaven.

This is heaven, and there aren’t any people in heaven.

 

[Mr E]

There’s no assertion.
No one forcing you to waste your life arguing & debating in heaven.

This is heaven, and there aren’t any people in heaven.

It's strange, while common. Strange that Christians cannot get their heads around a concept clearly taught-- this idea of the kingdom of God being a realm within us, and also the idea that God dwells in us-- that we are essentially His body. His hands and feet and that He moves in and through us.

Yet common, in that it's almost universally rejected as an idea. Christians prefer to think of heaven as being 'somewhere else.' Somewhere 'up there' above the clouds, or out in space, where God and everybody has "body" and sits on thrones or lives in mansions-- a true gated community.

Sigh.

 

[Phil .]

@Mr E
Well said!

 

[JohnDB]

There’s no assertion.
No one forcing you to waste your life arguing & debating in heaven.

This is heaven, and there aren’t any people in heaven.

 

[Spyder]

Yep, I'm sure.

See, when having a debate you are supposed to support your side of the arguments and not prove mine beyond all doubt.

I'm thinking that you really don't understand how debate works.

First off, I approach these forums as discussions more than debates, but I know that is how they end up.

I am left thinking that you did not pick up on the word definition for vision in the page I posted. I certainly did NOT prove your accusation that I was "translation shopping." I would hope that, if you believe I did that you would explain how I proved your point.

I don't think you understand that there are people here who want to broaden scriptural knowledge and provide it to others who also want to learn.

 

[Phil .]

I don't think you understand that there are people here who want to broaden scriptural knowledge and provide it to others who also want to learn.

This hasn’t quite ‘clicked’ yet.

There are no people in heaven, and this is already heaven.

What appears to forget, actually forgets by appearing.

 

[JohnDB]

Luke 23:43
I assure you that today you will be with me in paradise.

 

[Phil .]

Luke 23:43
I assure you that today you will be with me in paradise.

There’s no assertion.
No one forcing you to waste your life arguing & debating in heaven.

This is heaven, and there aren’t any people in heaven.

 

[JohnDB]

First off, I approach these forums as discussions more than debates, but I know that is how they end up.

I am left thinking that you did not pick up on the word definition for vision in the page I posted. I certainly did NOT prove your accusation that I was "translation shopping." I would hope that, if you believe I did that you would explain how I proved your point.

I don't think you understand that there are people here who want to broaden scriptural knowledge and provide it to others who also want to learn.

Anyone with a concordance or dictionary can see that "vision" or scene or occurrence are synonymous. Not the definition that you are promoting.

 

[JohnDB]

So you are saying Jesus is a liar?

That's blasphemy! I'm done with you!

 

[JohnDB]

This hasn’t quite ‘clicked’ yet.

There are no people in heaven, and this is already heaven.

What appears to forget, actually forgets by appearing.

You are speaking blasphemy
The father of lies is who?