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Tongues

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Behold, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    In the assembly in regards to the gifts of the Spirit, yes.

    1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.... 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
     
  2. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.... 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

    Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
     
  3. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Jesus can. Ask Him.

    James 1:
    5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


    All of those questions can be answered in scripture, but with the Lord's help we can find the answers we seek in the scripture.
     
  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hi, 1st Century.

    I just happened to be glancing at this and noticed you had tagged me for it. So you know, the tag system around here is pretty poor. It almost never works.

    But about your post, I looked it up, and I can't find anything where v.34-35 are late additions. The verb tenses change somewhat in later manuscripts, but the phraseology is still the same.

    Out of curiosity, where did you hear that v.34-35 are late additions?
     
  5. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Thank you for sharing but since it was the man's home whose daughters did prophesy, that is still God using men in outward ministry.

    Do consider that writing books is a teaching ministry outside the church. Christian forums is an outreach ministry and not a church where everybody is supposed to be speaking the same thing and holding to the same judgment. You are allowed.

    If you are teaching from a pulpit in church, you better ask Him again for discernment and be prepared to be pruned to bear more fruit because scriptures clearly says no. John 15:1-2 If that spirit says you can, when the scriptures says no way, then you best go by the scripture. But if the Spirit leads you as a teacher outside the church, then that was Jesus speaking to you through the Holy Spirit.

    Just do not make an assumption about that teaching position being in the assembly.

    And cutting out verse 34-35 because you do not like it, is considered resisting the pruning by His words and thus not abiding in Him.

    29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

    39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

    If you are not preaching from a pulpit, you got nothing to worry about. You are allowed to teach & preach outside the church be it by books or in Christian forums. or wherever, except in the assembly.

    But just because you are doing this, does not mean you should not check your work with Jesus Christ in proving everything by the scriptures by Him too. Do not be ashamed to correct your books or how you post if you learn something that is leading you to repentance in serving him in truth. That is showing Jesus Christ in your life in how He is helping you to follow Him in growing in the knowledge of Him even as a teacher.

    cc: @Hidden In Him
     
  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    If it was the man's home then it appears this was Phillip's house church, and if they were prophesying in his house then they were prophesying in church, yes?
     
  7. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Acts 2 does not say that >God gave< the hearer anything.
    The verse said that the hearers heard in their own language.
    This was be JEWS, as the feast of Pentecost was for the Jew.
    So, you are making up your own NT, again.

    If you study a bible, vs being led astray by commentaries, then you'll find that in Corinthians you have a few certain facts about "SIGNS".

    1. Tongues are for a sign

    2. The Jews require a sign.

    3. The "signs of an Apostle" prove their ministry.
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now why does God then allow women to teach men outside the church yet not inside the church?

    Keep in mind, I'm not assenting to this being true. I'm still simply attempting to assess your theology.
     
  9. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Verse 22 as an example, is about reproving the already saved believers for looking for signs that they have received another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues when there is no other baptism to seek after.

    Another example is how an early Catholic church had used tongues as a sign as proof that they were keeping the doctrines within.

    Another example is how Joyce Meyers used tongues as a sign of God was calling her into the ministry.

    Another example is how an elderly neighbor across the street used tongues as a sign that was when she was really saved because she felt the Holy Spirit come over her & she spoke in tongues but she was a believer all of her life. Even though she does not believe that false teaching that "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved" that neighbor would have a hard time preventing any one using her testimony as proof to that false teaching.

    As for verse 23, as you have seen in that Khundalini video, so anyone unlearned that comes in would think them all mad if they all spoke in tongue where there is no decency nor order in the assembly. That is not tongues serving as a sign at all to anyone, but addressing the abuse of tongues in the assembly. And a side note, the unlearned is more than likely referring to babes in Christ rather than just an unbeliever, especially if said unbeliever comes from a religion or the occult that he would be familiar with as chaos and confusion as found in Khundalini & just join on in !!
     
  10. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    I was referring to praying in silence. She can also give thanks in silence too.
     
  11. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again.
    Women can preach, women can teach women and children, women can minister to women with every spiritual gift available - they are only restricted from having authority over a congregation that has men in it.

    And they can certainly pray in tongues as their private prayer language at home, all they want.

    Jesus said the sign of speaking in tongues follows though who believe, which includes women believers.
     
  12. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Acts 21:7 And when we had finished our voyage from Tyre, we came to Ptolemais, greeted the brethren, and stayed with them one day. 8 On the next day we who were Paul’s companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. 10 And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’

    I can see how that house is considered a church to you, but it seems the place was used for shelter for the visiting disciples; not as a church.

    The owner of the house was an evangelist, and would be considered as outreach ministry. The four daughters could have very well be referred to as part of that outreach ministry. Since nothing is specified, as they were staying there many days, that report regarding his daughters could very well have taken place outside the home in the evangelistic part of the ministry of that father of the four daughters.

    The only thing that is specific was how that prophet came to prophesy about what will happen to Paul. Since he took Paul's belt, I can assume he did the prophesy in the evangelist's home as it may have been laying around handy for him to grab it. But that is an assumption. I suppose he could taken it right off of him outside, but it seems likely the other scenario to me.

    What is odd is that whereas that man prophesied regarding Paul was reported, but not the four daughters in what they had prophesied and so I had to discern that what they had prophesied was not known to the visitors but a comment about them in being used by the Lord in outward ministry.

    Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem. 5 And when we had accomplished those days, we departed and went our way; and they all brought us on our way, with wives and children, till we were out of the city: and we kneeled down on the shore, and prayed. 6 And when we had taken our leave one of another, we took ship; and they returned home again. 7 And when we had finished our course from Tyre, we came to Ptolemais, and saluted the brethren, and abode with them one day. 8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. 10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. 11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. 12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem. KJV

    Anyway, it seems the report of Philip the evangelist, is of a family of seven, whereas he had four daughters that prophesied where his home was where the disciples had stayed in until they moved on. I read no account of holding church service there. especially for an evangelist because where is the flock that he had preached to? Probably meeting in another place to accompany the assembly of believers rather then his already crowded home of seven members of his family, including himself, and now Paul and his fellow companions.
     
  13. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    A couple of years ago on TV, or I read it, but can't remember who said it. But that coincides with why it was alright with God that I teach. Those two verses break up the flow of the subject about prophets.
     
  14. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Because they are not allowed to speak nor usurp authority over a man in the assembly as it is a commandment from the Lord.

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

    1 Timothy 2:
    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


    15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

    I believe verse 15 is written as an escape for women to resist the temptation to seek a position in church by raising children by example.
     
  15. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    My teaching is through books. You can read them or leave them. But God does the teaching. I just write what He teaches me through being able to hear his voice. Here is a review on the book on tongues He wrote through me. My next two books will be on grace and faith.

    "I have been a Pentecostal/Charismatic for 50 years. I have read most books on the gift of tongues. I have found this book the best I have ever read. It is well researched, and she uses a good combination of Scriptures to build a very strong foundation for what she has discovered, both through the New Testament and through hers and others experiences in how the gift has been used in Bible times and in the modern day. I was really blessed by reading this book, and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to know the truth about the gift of tongues and how it is a sign, and especially for those who are seeking for the gift. Buy it! Read it! You will definitely not be disappointed. And this is coming from one who has an M.A. in English Literature, and an M.Div, and who is very discriminating when it comes to receiving literature on the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues! Also, she has written other books, and if they are as well researched and Scriptural as this one, I intend to buy them as well!"
     
  16. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    Interpret 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 about tongues being a sign to the unbeliever not a believer. How is it a sign? The Corinthians were Gentiles.
     
  17. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    There is a filling of the Holy Spirit aka baptism of the Holy Spirit that occurs by a spirit filled believer laying hands on them, and speaking in tongues is the evidence they received it.

    Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

    Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

    Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


    Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.


    Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

    Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

    Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

    Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

    Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

    How did Simon know something happened that showed him they’d received the Holy Spirit?

    They spoke in tongues.

    Tongues of course can’t be a sign FOR believers, because tongues are a sign that FOLLOWS those who believe:

    Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

    The whole point of 1 Corinthians 14 is the correct way to use spiritual gifts during church services - he said it’s not good for an unbeliever to hear the whole congregation speaking in unknown tongues that aren’t interpreted, so not to use them in church services UNLESS one with the gift of interpreting tongues can explain what was said, OTHERWISE prophesy was the best gift to use - because it’s not spoken in tongues.

    So tongues in church services are just fine, as long as someone interprets them, and even then, limit it to a maximum of three tongues messages that are interpreted.

    Paul in fact ordered the church at Corinth NOT to forbid tongues, so obviously they had done that, which is why Paul explained all about spiritual gifts and the correct way to use them in his epistle to them.
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I suppose she can, LoL, but I think you are drifting farther and farther from a natural reading of the text. The natural flow of the verse suggests she gave thanks to God verbally in the temple, and then proceeded to inform those present verbally that the Messiah had finally come. I think that as a prophetess she knew by the Spirit of God what she was witnessing, and it was likely one of those things where if she hadn't declared what she was witnessing, the rocks themselves would have cried out.

    But to each his own. I appreciate you batting it back and forth.
     
  19. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    So explain the type of sign that tongues are for the unbeliever in 1 Corinthians 14:22
     
  20. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well now, I know this is your position, but what I am asking you for is what would be the reasoning behind it. Why would God allow women to teach men outside the assembly, but not allow women to teach men inside of it?
     
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