Understanding The 144,000

[Truman]

We are one in Messiah. There is a separate purpose for church (gentiles) and Israel. I believe John meant what he said.

 

[Marty fox]

Nah! Who is Israel …it it’s the true blood washed saints throughout time.

When the writer of Revelation Describes his heavenly encounter in pictures a types. Why does man then seek to understand it and interpret it with his carnal mind literally! He tries to bring it down to his own understanding.

It is written spiritually therefore understood spiritually ….144,000 is a spiritual number that is obvious to a babe, therefore everything else described here is spiritual too.
It is not (only) literal Israel , it is not literal virgins …etc etc

Amen

 

[Marty fox]

Your point is...

My point is that it’s not the literal 12 truth because the 12 tribes mentioned in revelation chapter 7 aren’t the original 12 tribes

 

[Truman]

My point is that it’s not the literal 12 truth because the 12 tribes mentioned in revelation chapter 7 aren’t the original 12 true

If that's how you choose to interpret it, who am I to say otherwise?

 

[Marty fox]

If that's how you choose to interpret it, who am I to say otherwise?

Its not an interpretation read the list of tribes in the bible yourself and you will see the difference. Dan is removed and replaced as he was called a serpent

 

[Truman]

Its not an interpretation read the list of tribes in the bible yourself and you will see the difference. Dan is removed and replaced as he was called a serpent

I know the list isn't exact. I happen to believe that it is literal.
I know this stuff isn't the easiest stuff to see. When it comes to pass, we'll understand.

 

[Helen]

Its not an interpretation read the list of tribes in the bible yourself and you will see the difference. Dan is removed and replaced as he was called a serpent

Also….it’s Nothing at all to do with blood-line , but everything to do with the heart and the walk of the believer .

 

[Marty fox]

Also….it’s Nothing at all to do with blood-line , but everything to do with the heart and the walk of the believer .

yes agreed thanks

 

[JohnPaul]

And people are stupid enough to really believe that! Hahah! ( hoping your question was not a serIous one! )
When one thinks of ALL the people of God since the beginning of time …it is so amazing that some/many people are shallow enough to actually believe that.

No I don't actually believe that, was just asking for the heck of it to see people's responses, of course I know I believe in God and his only begotten son our Lord Savior Jesus Christ and I don't have a drop of Jewish blood, and know I'll be saved.

But for someone new reading something like that, they might think that, I know I use to until I asked my Pastor and he explained it to me.

Nice speaking to you again Helen, hope you are well.

 

[Truman]

Those outside of the lineage of the man, "Israel," are called gentiles. Faith in Christ saves them. Those of the house of Israel with faith in Christ are saved. Those of the house of Judah with faith in Christ are saved.
I believe that the 144,000 taken from the 12 tribes are the bride of Christ.
God can change any of my views if He so chooses to do so.

 

[Helen]

Those outside of the lineage of the man, "Israel," are called gentiles. Faith in Christ saves them. Those of the house of Israel with faith in Christ are saved. Those of the house of Judah with faith in Christ are saved.
I believe that the 144,000 taken from the 12 tribes are the bride of Christ.
God can change any of my views if He so chooses to do so.

Well, glad to see that you are humble enough to allow the Lord to change you mind if you are wrong. x
The sad ones are those that are so convinced in their own mind, that there is no room for change. Once a person gets to that, they are closed and unteachable ( to the place of arrogance, and no longer need to ‘hear His Voice ‘ )

Blessings. H .

 

[Truman]

Well, glad to see that you are humble enough to allow the Lord to change you mind if you are wrong. x
The sad ones are those that are so convinced in their own mind, that there is no room for change. Once a person gets to that, they are closed and unteachable ( to the place of arrogance, and no longer need to ‘hear His Voice ‘ )

Blessings. H .

And often, contentious. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I just don't like it when people are nasty.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ain't no pre-trib rapture, so you can forget asking me to agree to that false doctrine of the devil.

I don't agree with the Pre-Trib rapture for many reasons, but I would not say it is from the Devil.
Satan's career has been to keep people away from Jesus, creating all sorts of religions, philosophies and atheism. He dies not want people to have faith about anything in the Bible and wants us to stay away. Of course if we are confirmed Christians, he will try to trip us up, distort things, cause confusion and doubts. He'll insert tares aming the wheat. But we are saved - no one can snatch us out of the Father's hand! OSAS. He wants to cause division among us and has to some extant. But for Satan to promote a doctrine that gives hope and faith that Jesus will return, resurrect us, destroy evil and lock him away for a thousand years would be working against himself. Even Jesus said that acts of Satan against Satan would be destructive for him. "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand."
And so, be cautious with your words. Respected theologians hold to this doctrine. The fact that there are many end time views means that there is a mystery about it. It is not iron clad. It is not an essential doctrine as to the order of events that take place. What is important is that Jesus will return in judgment and we will be resurrected someday - likely soon.

This you can count on: by the time the "great tribulation" starts, each person will already be divided to one side or the other, and will remain in their belief to the day of Jesus' return.

No. Everyone whonis written in the Book of Life is destined to be saved. GOD's plan for all will be a accomplished. Those who take the mark of the Beast were never intended to be saved and many will, likely iver half the population of the planet. Gid wil guide each and every one to respond accordingly. This is how the future is written. God is sovereign. Otherwise prophecy would not be fulfilled perfectly.

That means, if you believe the false Pre-trib Rapture theory from men when the trib starts, you will continue to believe it throughout that tribulation, all the way to the end of it, because at the end of it is actually when Lord Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27)

No, gradually, when they realize that the GT is here and so are they, they will abandon that view - a light will go on. God enlightens all of us of our errors at different times in our lives - doesn't He?
Likewise, if post-tribbers find that they are raptured before the end of the GT - won't they be pleased too?

 

[Enoch111]

I don't agree with the Pre-Trib rapture for many reasons, but I would not say it is from the Devil.

Now things which are from God are being labeled as things from the devil and vice versa. But we do know what times we are living in and that there will be an increase in false doctrines.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Now things which are from God are being labeled as things from the devil and vice versa. But we do know what times we are living in and that there will be an increase in false doctrines.

True. The question we should ask is: Will the Holy Spirit allow a born again Christian to be led astray by false doctrines that will somehow invalidate the work He has done and sealed? No.
Unbeleievers will be led astray. But I don't believe that God will lose any of His intended sheep. We may be confused about some things, be in error, misunderstand, misinterpret along the way, but these are mere bumps in the road, flaws in our thinking that we all suffer from time time. God corrects us, refines us as we go. Our spirit has been sanctified and we ate gradually being transformed. I would 't worry about gettimg carried away by a false doctrine. Faith is a gift. He doesn't give it to us and then change His mind and take it back.
Imagine God looking down on us and saying, "So you followed the Pre-Trib view (or Post-trib view) ... Well, I'll have to blot you out of the Book for that ... bye, bye!" We can substitute any other non-essential doctrine for that one and it would seem ridiculous. We are saved by Grace through faith. We are not saved by works, keeping the Law, or by passing a doctrinal exam. All of us would fail.

 

[Timtofly]

Modern mainstream Church-ianity teaches (relentlessly) that the 144,000 will all be men and Jewish.

I don't believe the Bible teaches this at all.

"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins."

Are you saying the Bible is hinting that some are women who cannot be defiled by women?

 

[Timtofly]

So yes I was right they aren’t the original 12 tribes. Out of all of the times in the bible there is a list of tribes neither are the same list as revelation 7

How about my other points?

There are 14 tribes of Israel. There were actually 14 disciples as well. So depending on the timing only 12 are considered by God, as legitimate necessary for a particular purpose.

 

[Marty fox]

There are 14 tribes of Israel. There were actually 14 disciples as well. So depending on the timing only 12 are considered by God, as legitimate necessary for a particular purpose.

Humm 14 tribes and 14 deciples who were they?

 

[Timtofly]

So us Gentiles who have believed in Christ our Savior have no chance, because we are not Jewish and part of the 12 tribes?

I think it is the other way around. The Second Coming is before the GT. The body of Christ does not go through the GT. Jesus Christ and His 144k disciples go through the GT. It is called the final harvest. It is not a harvest into the body of Christ. It is the firstfruits harvest for the Millennial reign. The church is in Paradise. Those Coming out of the GT inherit the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Humm 14 tribes and 14 deciples who were they?

Put the lists together and you can see, no?

Joseph wanted Mannasseh, but Jacob chose Ephraim. The 11 disciples chose Matthias by lots, but God chose Paul.