Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[Episkopos]

both are the same we are saints and being in christ makes us righteous

It may seem futile...but I tried.

 

[Ezra]

.but I tried

tried what.
Colossians 1:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:11
Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Philippians 3:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; so how can one reign over the other when both are the same?

 

[Helen]

<snip>
Just because no one was able to fulfill the Law, it would make God look foolish or incompetent to just rescind it, as though he didn't know what he was doing in the first place. Thus, it had to be fulfilled, and God waited for Christ to do so. Otherwise, it cannot be ignored or not taken seriously, for God is not frivolous, he does not establish doctrines mindlessly.

For God's son paid for our sins at a great price, who will God allow to regard this with indifference or contempt?
So, as much Helen, as you expect your words & will to be taken seriously by those under your authority, so does God, for he does not establish precepts or covenants that have the option to be ignored, or rejected. For he does not consider his Will or Word to be incidental.

Thanks for your reply.

Some seem to think that in Eden there was a 'whoops Adam sinned , so God had to quickly come up with a Plan B.
I believe God's Plan A was well in place 'before the foundation of the world' when it tells us The Lamb was slain even before the foundation of the world
1 Peter 1:19-20 , Rev 13 .8

God always intended to win, from before the beginning..nothing is happenstance . He offers us a life, a walk, and fellowship with Himself, starting right here on earth...it is the fool who does not say- " Yes Lord."

 

[Helen]

It's clear that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...and not just for believers. Jesus never advocates for a salvation by belief system.

God is merciful.

I believe the bible shows very clearly that the saints will rule over the righteous and they on whom God shows mercy. God can save whom He wants to...even without our say so!

People can't see that there are actually 4 possible destinies for mankind. Until they do...the resultant attempts at a sound doctrine will fall flat...either taking mercy away from God or the other extreme...a going easy on sin.

The 4 destinies are a balanced and biblical view. It is the only viewpoint that allows that religious hypocrites fare worse than obvious sinners.

Wise words....

 

[Hidden In Him]

Lol....okay Peter Pan! Happy thoughts!

Either that, or like Woodstock, man.

Far out!

Thanks for a good laugh, sista! I'm digging it : )

 

[DNB]

Thanks for your reply.

Some seem to think that in Eden there was a 'whoops Adam sinned , so God had to quickly come up with a Plan B.
I believe God's Plan A was well in place 'before the foundation of the world' when it tells us The Lamb was slain even before the foundation of the world
1 Peter 1:19-20 , Rev 13 .8

God always intended to win, from before the beginning..nothing is happenstance . He offers us a life, a walk, and fellowship with Himself, starting right here on earth...it is the fool who does not say- " Yes Lord."

Yes, agreed, God's Word was not foiled by the acts of man, nor was his Son an after-thought. But, in order to reveal him at the appointed time, certain events or criteria needed to take place. And it is these logistics that will not fall by the way side once God established them, ...as you said, from the beginning of time.
So, my point is, that it's not so much that a decision is made on God's part, at the spur of the moment, whether or not that he will exact justice or mercy, but whether or not his divine plan will be fulfilled as he ordered it. ...for, as we know, nothing is mandated by God without having the utmost wisdom, relevance and necessity.

 

[Helen]

So, my point is, that it's not so much that a decision is made on God's part, at the spur of the moment, whether or not that he will exact justice or mercy, but whether or not his divine plan will be fulfilled as he ordered it. ...for, as we know, nothing is mandated by God without having the utmost wisdom, relevance and necessity.

On that we totally agree.... that which I made bold in the quote above, I don't quite agree with..whether 'or not' His divine Plan is fulfilled is not 'up for grabs' ...but the whether we individually will be a part of it, and found in the place that He has called us each to...IS very much up for grabs..

That 'to me' is what Paul is saying when he says " Make your calling and election sure..." That part of His plan is up to us...do we wish to lay it all aside and run hard after Him all the way...or will we just trust that we can coast into heaven on the shirt tails of Jesus.........that's our daily choice as I see it...

 

[Ezra]

1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
not this
I believe the bible shows very clearly that the saints will rule over the righteous

 

[07-07-07]

There's that irony again.

Wrath is a function of Love.

Wrath and Love are not mutually exclusive.

Deflection. False teachers always twist the Scriptures to suit their flesh. In any event, Jesus made it clear that few (comparatively speaking) will make it. I trust Jesus on all matters, not the shallow words of men.

Luke 14
[22] And he [Jesus] went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
[23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
[28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
[29] And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

 

[Nancy]

yes and the OT reveals Christ. The volume ...

"Old Testament concealed, New Testament revealed"

 

[Helen]

1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
not this
I believe the bible shows very clearly that the saints will rule over the righteous

Agree

But, because this thread is what it is...I would like to say ..What is the measuring tape that God uses to judge?

I believe the Two Great Commandments Jesus left with us is God 'measuring line'... = did we make it in that regard
He measures our hearts , I believe ...

When He comes He will come looking for a reflection of Himself....( i.e. "Let Us make man in our image and likeness" )

Just my thoughts...

 

[Helen]

Deflection. False teachers always twist the Scriptures to suit their flesh.

Well it takes one to know one...

 

[Giuliano]

Deflection. False teachers always twist the Scriptures to suit their flesh. In any event, Jesus made it clear that few (comparatively speaking) will make it. I trust Jesus on all matters, not the shallow words of men.

Luke 14
[22] And he [Jesus] went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
[23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
[28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
[29] And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Take note -- note it very well -- that flattering hypocrites are being threatened here. When Jesus speaks of punishment, frequently it's his own unfaithful servants who get shown as being punished the most harshly.

I have a question for you. Jesus mentions the "strait gate" also in the Sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Then later the very same day, after coming down from the mount, he says:

8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So which is it, few or many? Can you explain it? Of course, you can't explain it. I assure you both statements are correct. Jesus did not make a mistake in either statement.

 

[Ezra]

Agree

But, because this thread is what it is...I would like to say ..What is the measuring tape that God uses to judge?

I believe the Two Great Commandments Jesus left with us is God 'measuring line'... = did we make it in that regard
He measures our hearts , I believe ...

When He comes He will come looking for a reflection of Himself....( i.e. "Let Us make man in our image and likeness" )

Just my thoughts...

He will come looking for a reflection of Himself.

yes we should have that reflection on us but how many of will admit we fail at times? i do buththankfl for grace

What is the measuring tape that God uses to judge?

Grace if we have been born again/regenerated through the Holy spirit we will have this reflection . there is only two types people in this wold lost or saved .the good news is we can KNOW before leaving this walk of life if were truly saved. only 2 people know you and God. he will judge the secrets of man heart by his son Christ Jesus . we can not judge anyone salvation .but we can sure see things may not be right by the fruit the bear . the old saying we ben called to be fruit bearers not inspectors . i will say i do see a lot of strange fire in some of the post..

 

[Ezra]

Thanks for your reply.

Some seem to think that in Eden there was a 'whoops Adam sinned , so God had to quickly come up with a Plan B.
I believe God's Plan A was well in place 'before the foundation of the world' when it tells us The Lamb was slain even before the foundation of the world
1 Peter 1:19-20 , Rev 13 .8

God always intended to win, from before the beginning..nothing is happenstance . He offers us a life, a walk, and fellowship with Himself, starting right here on earth...it is the fool who does not say- " Yes Lord."

i am sure he had a plan B he knew they would fail and he knows we will fail there is a ram in the thicket

 

[Giuliano]

An enemy has done this.... God, with this one statement, denies all responsibility for sin in the world.

So now you have Satan as more powerful than God. God is not willing that any should perish; but Satan is going to make sure most people do perish. Satan is not that powerful, Brakelite.

You are now asking me to be the judge? Later my friend, when I have all the information.

If only you were so reluctant to rush to a judgment about God.

What more information would you need? The question is easy enough: Can one person have the power to send another to eternal destruction? If I murder a sinner, am I that powerful that my act will doom him eternally?

blame? Where am I blaming the Father, or Jesus for that matter, for anything? Sin was not their fault... Yet together they decided on a plan to overcome and deal with the problem. They didn't have to... It was quite within their divine prerogative to destroy humanity and start again. But love chose otherwise. What am I blaming God for? I thank Him for God grace and mercy every day... What more could the Godhead have done for a rebellious race?

Why create man with the potential for "rebellion" if God can't handle it? You have God saying to Himself, "Boy, did these humans ever surprise me!"

You surely must agree that God designed this world. Surely you also believe God is not lacking in Power or Wisdom. Therefore if people perish, it would have to be because He allows it or doesn't know how to prevent it.

As for destroying humanity and starting again, that's saying God could become so frustrated by how He created things to begin with, He wrecks His creation blaming it. Ha, ha, that would be like a father having a child who didn't cater to his every whim looking at the child and saying, "I don't like the way you turned out. I think I'll kill you and try again." You can't be serious, Brakelite.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Either that, or like Woodstock, man.

Far out!

Thanks for a good laugh, sista! I'm digging it : )

will you answer one question seriously cause I’d like to know as it pertains to His church (body)? In Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

And Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

will God give the blessing He commands to be given to those who curse? Yes or no?

 

[07-07-07]

Take note -- note it very well -- that flattering hypocrites are being threatened here. When Jesus speaks of punishment, frequently it's his own unfaithful servants who get shown as being punished the most harshly.

I have a question for you. Jesus mentions the "strait gate" also in the Sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Then later the very same day, after coming down from the mount, he says:

8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So which is it, few or many? Can you explain it? Of course, you can't explain it. I assure you both statements are correct. Jesus did not make a mistake in either statement.

You're still deflecting and twisting the Scriptures. Most people CHOOSE the broad road in life, so eternal damnation is their inheritance. Jesus showed mankind the narrow road that leads to eternal life, and few find it.; these few are the many who will sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Helen]

i am sure he had a plan B he knew they would fail and he knows we will fail there is a ram in the thicket

Thank you...interesting reply.

The difference between us would be that I believe that God never had a Plan B...His plan A has always been in effect since before the creation of the earth. He is just finding out who of us who have trodden this earth since it's creation, will choose Him above all else. ( and be included in His wonderful plan of salvation and union with Him...

 

[Heart2Soul]

Either that, or like Woodstock, man.

Far out!

Thanks for a good laugh, sista! I'm digging it : )