WAKE UP!!! Church pastors we are living in the days of the very near rapture!

[Wrangler]

What happens to your faith if the pre-rapture does not happen during your lifetime?

What does the Bible say? Better we are prepared and it does not come than it comes and we are not prepared.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!

Amen!

But this happens after the Antichrist comes.

 

[WPM]

1 Thess. 4:13 The "catching up" IS the rapture!!
3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be""" caught up """together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Luke 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Do you believe in a 7-years trib following that? Do you believe in a 3rd coming?

 

[WPM]

What does the Bible say? Better we are prepared and it does not come than it comes and we are not prepared.

Where in Scripture teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

 

[Wrangler]

Where in Scripture teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord?

Friend, I don’t want to get into all that.

You and I may not see another day. We ought to be prepared, be right with God BECAUSE we don’t know when OUR end will be.

To me, there is entirely too much focus and acrimony over conjecture about THE end because our focus is supposed to be on God - no matter what end.

 

[WPM]

Friend, I don’t want to get into all that.

You and I may not see another day. We ought to be prepared, be right with God BECAUSE we don’t know when OUR end will be.

To me, there is entirely too much focus and acrimony over conjecture about THE end because our focus is supposed to be on God - no matter what end.

Obviously, many of us who used to be Pretrib are concerned at the 2nd chance theology of Pretrib that is deceiving people. Also, the delusion that Christians will escape persecution.

 

[The Light]

When the Antichrist shows up, then Christ’s return will be near.

“And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” (Luke 21:28)

What things?

These:

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders…” (2 Thessalonians 2:8-9)

Pre-tribulation rapture is a fantasy.

You are without understanding. You leave this part of the verses out.

2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

These verses are not talking about the rapture. They are talking about the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The verses also talk about the day of Christ. Again, this has nothing to do with Christ rapturing His Church before the final week, it has to do with the Day of the Lord, which begins with the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

Obviously, many of us who used to be Pretrib are concerned at the 2nd chance theology of Pretrib that is deceiving people. Also, the delusion that Christians will escape persecution.

If you choose to hang around here and wait for the tribulation, that is your choice. The wise will be standing before the son of man.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[ewq1938]

You are without understanding. You leave this part of the verses out.

2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

These verses are not talking about the rapture. They are talking about the gathering from heaven and earth.

It's still a reference to the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

And according to Paul, the rapture happens only after the falling away/Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin which makes the rapture post-trib.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The verses also talk about the day of Christ. Again, this has nothing to do with Christ rapturing His Church before the final week, it has to do with the Day of the Lord, which begins with the wrath of God.

The issue is not whether a rapture is being described, but when it happens. The rapture/gathering happens AFTER the end of the GT. You have the timing right but are associating the term Rapture only with pre-trib.

 

[WPM]

If you choose to hang around here and wait for the tribulation, that is your choice. The wise will be standing before the son of man.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Where Pretribs get confused, and where they have been taught wrong, is that the wrath of God equates to a 7 years tribulation period after the coming of Christ. This is totally unbiblical and Pretrib cannot actually prove that. Because of that, all they have in their armory is insults and silliness - as above. This does not advance their cause, but rather exposes it.

The tribulation is the wrath of Satan/antichrist against the redeemed and has been ongoing for centuries. The wrath of God is poured out on the wicked and is totally destructive when Jesus comes and cannot be escaped.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe Jesus' return might be near. Dunno, but I don't know when. I think coming out and saying it is near is a bit of a claim to make. As no one really knows per what the bible says. But there are signs to watch out for. I'm just am not seeing signs of the end at the moment I think. I thought Russia might be causing the end to be near. But it's really not clear as to whether they will cause Armageddon or not.

I’ve thought Armageddon comes after the tribulation and after the thousand years - when satan is released once more to deceive the nations.
Just some sharing of my thoughts. Sshh, or the regular cast of actors will hear us and will come in here and begin Armageddon themselves.

 

[The Light]

Where Pretribs get confused, and where they have been taught wrong, is that the wrath of God equates to a 7 years tribulation period after the coming of Christ. This is totally unbiblical and Pretrib cannot actually prove that.

For once we can agree. Let me take a moment of silence and enjoy this moment. You are correct. Those that believe in a pretribulation rapture usually believe that the wrath of God equates to a 7 year tribulation. Since I look to the Word of and not anyone's teachings, I realize this is not correct. The FACT that you understand this, makes you confident that there will not be a pretribulation rapture. You see only one coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. There are at least more four comings of Jesus in total.

The Church is in heaven BEFORE the seals are open.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Then Jesus comes again, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION, and WHICH IS BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So that is two comings of Jesus for two raptures. That leave 2 more. Here's where Jesus comes and raptures the 144,000 from the earth.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

And then there is the coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. How is it that you do not understand these things?

The tribulation is the wrath of Satan/antichrist against the redeemed and has been ongoing for centuries.

The tribulation does not begin until the seals are opened and that wont' happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The wrath of God is poured out on the wicked and is totally destructive when Jesus comes and cannot be escaped.

The wrath of God lasts for one year.

Here is 5 months of this wrath at the 5th trumpet.
Revelation 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

At least you understand that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. This does not mean there will not be a rapture of the Church before the tribulation. The tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble and has nothing to do with the Church.

 

[The Light]

It's still a reference to the rapture.

No. It's still a reference to "A" rapture. The gathering from heaven and earth is the second rapture. The rapture of the Church happens before the seals are opened.

And according to Paul, the rapture happens only after the falling away/Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin which makes the rapture post-trib.

No. According to Paul, the second rapture, the gathering from heaven and earth that happens BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD.....happens before the wrath of God. The tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins.

The issue is not whether a rapture is being described, but when it happens. The rapture/gathering happens AFTER the end of the GT. You have the timing right but are associating the term Rapture only with pre-trib.

I can agree with you....in part. You correct in that a rapture is being described at the gathering from heaven and earth. It is the second rapture. The Church is gathered from heaven and the twelve tribes who have had their eyes opened during the time of Jacobs trouble are gathered from the earth. Only those in the nation of Israel that have fled to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

You are correct that there is "A" rapture after the Great Tribulation. But I'm not sure you understand that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

I can say this 1000 times and hope that one guy gets it. Your turn.

 

[Jay Ross]

What does the Bible say? Better we are prepared and it does not come than it comes and we are not prepared.

What is the preparation that you suggest? That we accept the Pre-trib theology and focus on saving ourselves, or to focus on our relationship with God, doing the things that matter to Him, like feeding the Poor, providing clothing for the naked, lifting the heavy burdens off of people etc.? What is the preparation that you suggest?

Did not Jesus say that those who try to save their lives will lose their life. If we lose our life because we tried to save our life, then the second death awaits us.

 

[WPM]

For once we can agree. Let me take a moment of silence and enjoy this moment. You are correct. Those that believe in a pretribulation rapture usually believe that the wrath of God equates to a 7 year tribulation. Since I look to the Word of and not anyone's teachings, I realize this is not correct. The FACT that you understand this, makes you confident that there will not be a pretribulation rapture. You see only one coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. There are at least more four comings of Jesus in total.

The Church is in heaven BEFORE the seals are open.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Then Jesus comes again, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION, and WHICH IS BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So that is two comings of Jesus for two raptures. That leave 2 more. Here's where Jesus comes and raptures the 144,000 from the earth.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

And then there is the coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. How is it that you do not understand these things?




The tribulation does not begin until the seals are opened and that wont' happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The wrath of God lasts for one year.

Here is 5 months of this wrath at the 5th trumpet.
Revelation 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

At least you understand that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. This does not mean there will not be a rapture of the Church before the tribulation. The tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble and has nothing to do with the Church.

You have been unable to show us one single reference to a future rapture in Revelation. Why are you avoiding? You know what we no: there is no Pretrib rapture. You have been taught wrong. You force it in where it is not. That is called adding unto Scripture.

Revelation 5 is talking about the dad in Christ now. They are in heaven in spirit now.

 

[Patrick1966]

Your choice!!! Reject the rapture and you get to stay behind==no fun!!!

Verse, please?

 

[Wrangler]

What is the preparation that you suggest? That we accept the Pre-trib theology

That we prepare not for OUR END - even if it does not coincide with THE END.

I've mostly stayed out of all these trib theology threads for this reason.

 

[WPM]

Verse, please?

Don't hold your breath. LOL. I have been waiting for years. It does not exist.

 

[amigo de christo]

Even now there are MANY anti christs whereby we know we in the last days .
This is that which is of anti Christ that you heard should come . Even now IS IT HERE amongst us and GROWS massive .
And so many have no idea . TIMES running out . More and more betrayals are coming with what little time we have left .
With what LITTLE time we have left . LOOK AROUND .

 

[amigo de christo]

The signs of the times . Oh the signs of THE TIMES .