We Are Not Appointed to "ETERNAL" Wrath

[Trekson]

We Are Not Appointed to “ETERNAL” Wrath​

When one understands there is no 7 yr. “trib period” prophesied, there is only the 70th week and the last half of the week is "not" called the GT in scripture, they will start to get closer to understanding what the 70th week consists of. Many try to say that this period is the time of Jacob’s trouble but that isn’t affirmed in Rev. although the description given is similar to how the GT is described, they are not the same. They are depicting two different peoples in two different time periods. Those scenarios are all made up as an excuse to somehow remove christians from something that scripture tells us we must endure. In Rev. 7:9, we see the raptured/resurrected church arriving in heaven and vs. 14 tells us the GT is the last thing we will be enduring before we go. However, the timing of this does put us in the era of at least the wrath of the Lamb, from Rev. 6:16-17 which are the trumpet judgments. The bible tells us over and over that we will have times of tribulation and persecution but folks want to shake that off and say that’s only talking about our day to day problems. In a way they’re right, but what were the day to day problems of the early church? Beatings, tortures, getting kicked out of cities, running for their lives, being put in prison, being thrown to the lions, roasted in oil, being fried, losing all their possessions, etc. It wasn’t just the apostles that had to endure all these things.

As far as I can tell, the concept that the church doesn't suffer from his wrath comes from only half of a single verse, 1 Thess. 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. Many erroneous eschatologies have been built around this phrase and never taking in the context of which it is given, even in the verse itself. Unlike most, I don't believe it is speaking of God's endtimes wrath because of the context.

The wrath being spoken of here is eternal "condemnation", not end times wrath. The same God who tells us in Matt. 28:10 - "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." and from Matt. 5:45 - "that ye may be the children of your Father who is in Heaven. For He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust", isn’t concerned about how we die, death is a given except those who will be raptured. 1 Thess. 5:9 is speaking of the same wrath as found in John 3:36 - "He that believeth in the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but "the wrath of God" abideth on him.” So we are not appointed to “eternal” wrath because we have "believed in Christ". When you're a christian it doesn't matter how you die whether it be from an earthquake, a tsunami, car accident, meteor strikes, being tortured and martyred for our faith, radiation or old age. If we die because of events caused by the wrath of the Lamb or the wrath of God, why would it matter, our destination is the same? What "saves" us from God's "eternal" wrath is also found in 1 Thess. 5:8 - "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation." It is because we are wearing the armor of God that we are not "appointed" to wrath. When folks understand this reality, they can look at the 70th week from a more realistic pov, instead of creating a separate set of christians (trib saints) the bible never talks about.

 

[Trekson]

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised that absolutely no one responded to this post.

 

[Davy]

We Are Not Appointed to “ETERNAL” Wrath​

When one understands there is no 7 yr. “trib period” prophesied, there is only the 70th week and the last half of the week is "not" called the GT in scripture, they will start to get closer to understanding what the 70th week consists of.

Man, the false Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers today are really pouring on the false spirits against God's written Word!

The symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 IS... about a 7 year period! The LATTER HALF of that "one week", a period of 1260 days, IS... about the time of "great tribulation" which Lord Jesus Christ forewarned His FAITHFUL Church about (Matthew 24; Mark 13).

Thus Trekson here has GONE 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE OF WHAT GOD'S WORD REVEALS AS WRITTEN.

 

[Trekson]

Man, the false Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers today are really pouring on the false spirits against God's written Word!

The symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 IS... about a 7 year period! The LATTER HALF of that "one week", a period of 1260 days, IS... about the time of "great tribulation" which Lord Jesus Christ forewarned His FAITHFUL Church about (Matthew 24; Mark 13).

Thus Trekson here has GONE 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE OF WHAT GOD'S WORD REVEALS AS WRITTEN.

First of all, I'm not pre-trib. The word "midst" in Dan. 9:27 can mean the middle but it can also mean anytime between day 2 and day 1259. Yes, the 70th week is a 7 yr. period but "nowhere" in scripture is it called a "trib" period! There is no prophecy that speaks of the "latter" half of the week. Nowhere is it prophesied the latter half of the week will be called the "great trib". There is nothing in Matt. 24 that puts the GT in the latter half of the week. The GT is upon the church, not the unbelieving world, they get God's wrath. So before you question ones ideas about prophecy, educate yourself on what the bible really says, not what folks think it says. Your comments are how I believe a pre-trib person would respond. But I do appreciate the response.

 

[Davy]

First of all, I'm not pre-trib. The word "midst" in Dan. 9:27 can mean the middle but it can also mean anytime between day 2 and day 1259. Yes, the 70th week is a 7 yr. period but "nowhere" in scripture is it called a "trib" period! There is no prophecy that speaks of the "latter" half of the week. Nowhere is it prophesied the latter half of the week will be called the "great trib". There is nothing in Matt. 24 that puts the GT in the latter half of the week. The GT is upon the church, not the unbelieving world, they get God's wrath. So before you question ones ideas about prophecy, educate yourself on what the bible really says, not what folks think it says. Your comments are how I believe a pre-trib person would respond. But I do appreciate the response.

No, the Hebrew for "midst" (KJV) in Daniel 9:27 means literally... 'half' or 'middle' (OT:2677).

You are playing word fallacy, trying to change the Scripture by a vain attempt to re-define the meaning of a single word.

And you are also wrong about the tribulation period info. God's Word does... declare it.

1. The Daniel 9:27 verse reveals a 7 year period by the false one. And in the 'middle' (literally) of that symbolic "one week", he is to end sacrifices and setup the abomination of desolation. That 'middle' of a 7 year period means TWO 1260 day periods. (This is why your false prophecy depends on trying... to destroy that 'middle' idea in Dan.9:27.)

2. Revelation 11 and 13 both reveal the period for the dragon reigning at the end of this world is a period of 42 months. Likewise in Rev.11, we are shown about a standing temple in Jerusalem with those who worship therein, and the Gentiles treading the holy city for a period of 42 months.

3. A period of 42 months is equal to 1260 days. God's two witnesses are to prophesy against the beast in Jerusalem for 1260 days, at the end of this world. That is pointing directly to the LATTER HALF of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27.

4. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus pointed to the LATTER HALF of Daniel's symbolic "one week" when the "abomination of desolation" is setup in a temple in Jerusalem for the end. He specifically... linked the time of "great tribulation" with the placing of that "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, which happens at the 'middle' of the 7 years of Dan.9:27.

So what you are following is clearly FALSE. And by your vain attempt to try and change... the meaning of the Hebrew word for "midst" in Daniel 9:27, that suggests your false working against Bible Scripture is being done ON PURPOSE.

 

[Trekson]

No, the Hebrew for "midst" (KJV) in Daniel 9:27 means literally... 'half' or 'middle' (OT:2677).

You are playing word fallacy, trying to change the Scripture by a vain attempt to re-define the meaning of a single word.

And you are also wrong about the tribulation period info. God's Word does... declare it.

1. The Daniel 9:27 verse reveals a 7 year period by the false one. And in the 'middle' (literally) of that symbolic "one week", he is to end sacrifices and setup the abomination of desolation. That 'middle' of a 7 year period means TWO 1260 day periods. (This is why your false prophecy depends on trying... to destroy that 'middle' idea in Dan.9:27.)

2. Revelation 11 and 13 both reveal the period for the dragon reigning at the end of this world is a period of 42 months. Likewise in Rev.11, we are shown about a standing temple in Jerusalem with those who worship therein, and the Gentiles treading the holy city for a period of 42 months.

3. A period of 42 months is equal to 1260 days. God's two witnesses are to prophesy against the beast in Jerusalem for 1260 days, at the end of this world. That is pointing directly to the LATTER HALF of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27.

4. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus pointed to the LATTER HALF of Daniel's symbolic "one week" when the "abomination of desolation" is setup in a temple in Jerusalem for the end. He specifically... linked the time of "great tribulation" with the placing of that "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, which happens at the 'middle' of the 7 years of Dan.9:27.

So what you are following is clearly FALSE. And by your vain attempt to try and change... the meaning of the Hebrew word for "midst" in Daniel 9:27, that suggests your false working against Bible Scripture is being done ON PURPOSE.

If you insist I can offer you scriptures using the same word "midst" which doesn't mean an exact half. A book can have a first page and a last page and everything in between is considered the "midst" of the book. I don't know what translation you're using but the "abomination of desolation" is "not" in Dan. 9:27. It can only be found in either Dan. 11:31 or 12:11. You're right about the timelines however none of those passages declare they are in a first or latter half, that is presumed by the reader. No, Matt. 24 does not claim the AoD is set up in the middle of the week. Yours is typical pretrib eschatology. But ponder on this one, the 2300 days of Dan. 8:12-14, the "midst" of Dan. 9:27 and the 1290 days of Dan. 12:11, all start on the same day and all must end by day 2520 of the 70th week!!

 

[Davy]

If you insist I can offer you scriptures using the same word "midst" which doesn't mean an exact half. A book can have a first page and a last page and everything in between is considered the "midst" of the book. I don't know what translation you're using but the "abomination of desolation" is "not" in Dan. 9:27. It can only be found in either Dan. 11:31 or 12:11. You're right about the timelines however none of those passages declare they are in a first or latter half, that is presumed by the reader. No, Matt. 24 does not claim the AoD is set up in the middle of the week. Yours is typical pretrib eschatology. But ponder on this one, the 2300 days of Dan. 8:12-14, the "midst" of Dan. 9:27 and the 1290 days of Dan. 12:11, all start on the same day and all must end by day 2520 of the 70th week!!

Your argument is stupid.

The Daniel 9:27, "in the midst of the week", with the "one week" being pointed to, is a CONTEXT Scripture, and is based on that "one week" representing a period of 7 years. And that Hebrew word for "midst" is translated in the majority of cases to mean in the 'middle', literally which means 'in half.'

 

[Truth7t7]

First of all, I'm not pre-trib. The word "midst" in Dan. 9:27 can mean the middle but it can also mean anytime between day 2 and day 1259. Yes, the 70th week is a 7 yr. period but "nowhere" in scripture is it called a "trib" period! There is no prophecy that speaks of the "latter" half of the week. Nowhere is it prophesied the latter half of the week will be called the "great trib". There is nothing in Matt. 24 that puts the GT in the latter half of the week. The GT is upon the church, not the unbelieving world, they get God's wrath. So before you question ones ideas about prophecy, educate yourself on what the bible really says, not what folks think it says. Your comments are how I believe a pre-trib person would respond. But I do appreciate the response.

The 70th week begins the 3.5 year tribulation, when the antichrist is revealed to the world, the 3.5 year clock starts ticking

 

[Truth7t7]

Man, the false Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers today are really pouring on the false spirits against God's written Word!

The symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27 IS... about a 7 year period! The LATTER HALF of that "one week", a period of 1260 days, IS... about the time of "great tribulation" which Lord Jesus Christ forewarned His FAITHFUL Church about (Matthew 24; Mark 13).

Thus Trekson here has GONE 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE OF WHAT GOD'S WORD REVEALS AS WRITTEN.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Davy]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

You can't be serious.

1. The Hebrew doesn't use 'days' or 'years' there in reality; it uses the idea of 'sevens'. Thus your basis for days and years from the start is error. In order to know just what literal time period God is giving there, one MUST continue with the prophecy AND with HISTORICAL EVENTS.

2.
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
KJV

70 (sevens per the Hebrew) are determined for Daniel's people (Jews) and for Jerusalem ("holy city"). It is to include the end of the "transgression" (transgression of desolation of Dan.8:13), and an end of sins and make reconciliation for iniquity (only on future day of Christ's return, for this is particularly about the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem especially), to bring in everlasting righteousness (Christ's future coming and reign over all nations, especially Jerusalem), and to seal up the vision (FULL END of ALL the prophecy, with Christ's future return), and to anoint the most Holy (building and anointing of Christ's future Millennial temple of Ezekiel, which will exist throughout Christ's future 1,000 years reign with His elect, on earth.)

ALL... of that is included within that 70 weeks prophecy. So it is OBVIOUS that is NOT MEANT AS MERE DAYS! Much of it has not even come to pass yet today!

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, since at the very start of your post, it is ludicrous, and shows you are only pushing a false doctrine from men, and have not actually studied those Scriptures for yourself.

 

[Truth7t7]

You can't be serious.

1. The Hebrew doesn't use 'days' or 'years' there in reality; it uses the idea of 'sevens'. Thus your basis for days and years from the start is error. In order to know just what literal time period God is giving there, one MUST continue with the prophecy AND with HISTORICAL EVENTS.

2.
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
KJV

70 (sevens per the Hebrew) are determined for Daniel's people (Jews) and for Jerusalem ("holy city"). It is to include the end of the "transgression" (transgression of desolation of Dan.8:13), and an end of sins and make reconciliation for iniquity (only on future day of Christ's return, for this is particularly about the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem especially), to bring in everlasting righteousness (Christ's future coming and reign over all nations, especially Jerusalem), and to seal up the vision (FULL END of ALL the prophecy, with Christ's future return), and to anoint the most Holy (building and anointing of Christ's future Millennial temple of Ezekiel, which will exist throughout Christ's future 1,000 years reign with His elect, on earth.)

ALL... of that is included within that 70 weeks prophecy. So it is OBVIOUS that is NOT MEANT AS MERE DAYS! Much of it has not even come to pass yet today!

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, since at the very start of your post, it is ludicrous, and shows you are only pushing a false doctrine from men, and have not actually studied those Scriptures for yourself.

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal future 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology

 

[Trekson]

Your argument is stupid.

The Daniel 9:27, "in the midst of the week", with the "one week" being pointed to, is a CONTEXT Scripture, and is based on that "one week" representing a period of 7 years. And that Hebrew word for "midst" is translated in the majority of cases to mean in the 'middle', literally which means 'in half.'

Try thinking for yourself instead of parroting whatever you were taught. Things in prophecy are never plain and simple as written. If they were, the priests of Christ's day would not have missed it and welcomed Christ as Messiah. If the 'experts" of the first century were wrong and I dare say they knew their bible far greater than most of us do, why do you think our 'experts" will get it right the second time around. One has to be willing to explore other possibilities of interpretation rather than focus on a single scenario that doesn't match what a lot of prophecies say or don't say.

 

[Trekson]

The 70th week begins the 3.5 year tribulation, when the antichrist is revealed to the world, the 3.5 year clock starts ticking

The revealing of "who" the a/c is doesn't start anything but perhaps the first seal. The AoD being "set up" is what starts the GT which is mentioned only in Dan. 11:31 or 12:11 and that fulfillment is pictured in Rev. 13:14-15 and the GT could very well be satan's wrath upon the church per Rev. 12:7. Nothing in scripture says the GT lasts for 3 1/2 yrs. but the bible does tell us in Matt. 24 that the time of it will be shortened or there would be no "christian" flesh left alive to rescue. Imo, it is the rapture of the church that shortens the GT and our arrival is found in Rev. 7:9 and what we were enduring just before the rapture is told in Rev. 7:14! There is no special group of "trib" saints, they are the still here church.

 

[Davy]

Try thinking for yourself instead of parroting whatever you were taught. Things in prophecy are never plain and simple as written. If they were, the priests of Christ's day would not have missed it and welcomed Christ as Messiah. If the 'experts" of the first century were wrong and I dare say they knew their bible far greater than most of us do, why do you think our 'experts" will get it right the second time around. One has to be willing to explore other possibilities of interpretation rather than focus on a single scenario that doesn't match what a lot of prophecies say or don't say.

No need to try... and lecture me, I have already studied that Daniel prophecy for 'myself'. I have not just latched onto some false doctrine of men like you have done with the ludicrous idea of thinking to change the meaning of that Hebrew word for "midst" which is halving the Daniel 9:27 "one week".

 

[Truth7t7]

it is the rapture of the church that shortens the GT and our arrival is found in Rev. 7:9 and what we were enduring just before the rapture is told in Rev. 7:14!

No such thing as a "Pre-Trib" rapture found in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

The resurrection and catching up takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Trekson]

No such thing as a "Pre-Trib" rapture found in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

The resurrection and catching up takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

If you actually read what I wrote you would see I was talking about a post-trib rapture but that is not the same as when folks are referencing a post-70th week rapture, imo, the GT will end well before the 70th week does.

 

[Enoch111]

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised that absolutely no one responded to this post.

We are waiting to see when you will realize how confused you are and then make some serious observations.

 

[Trekson]

We are waiting to see when you will realize how confused you are and then make some serious observations.

Folks really don't like to think outside the box, do they? That's too bad really, because most of Christ's sermons were outside the box of the law the people were used to. Maybe I'm not confused and just am willing to consider new approaches to an old subject that mostly creates division. There is no single eschatological theory (and that's all they are) that has it down pat. The truth more likely consists of a combination of all of them but folks are so rigid in their narrow mindsets that the truth could smack them in the face but are too prideful to admit possible errors in their eschatologies. Everything I wrote is scripturally accurate but folks are so used to believing an unscriptural narrative they can't comprehend the possibility they might be wrong. Think I'm confused, show me scripturally where something I said was false.

 

[Davy]

Folks really don't like to think outside the box, do they? That's too bad really, because most of Christ's sermons were outside the box of the law the people were used to.

No, you still have your thinking confused. Staying with what is written in God's Word is what those in Christ are to do, and that means sticking with Scripture. One can speculate some, but definitely not if it leaves the Scriptures. So when someone brings up an idea like your 'thinking outside the box' it can also suggest leaving... The Scriptures with replacing it with something else. And this Lord Jesus NEVER did.

Maybe I'm not confused and just am willing to consider new approaches to an old subject that mostly creates division. There is no single eschatological theory (and that's all they are) that has it down pat. The truth more likely consists of a combination of all of them but folks are so rigid in their narrow mindsets that the truth could smack them in the face but are too prideful to admit possible errors in their eschatologies. Everything I wrote is scripturally accurate but folks are so used to believing an unscriptural narrative they can't comprehend the possibility they might be wrong. Think I'm confused, show me scripturally where something I said was false.

If you're looking for a hobby that allows all kinds of "new approaches", then maybe you ought to close your Bible and just let someone else tell you what The Bible is teaching, because you show your mind may not be fit for understanding The Bible on your own.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

We Are Not Appointed to “ETERNAL” Wrath

Correct, for the Body of Christ, According To The Scriptures!
(Eph 1:7, 2:8-9; Col 1:12-14; 1Th 1:10, 5:9, God's OPERATION, and HIS Eternal 'Assurance'!)

And also 'Not Appointed To "Satan's" wrath Either!':

Rev_12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the ​

inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, ​

having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."​

​

Hence, The Scriptural 'pre-trib departure' Ends Grace, According To 'The Revelation of the
Mystery'(Romans Through Philemon), and then God Resumes prophesy with judgment/wrath
in the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Daniel, Matthew, Revelation) for Israel, and UNbelievers.

How Many 'members of The Body' will be "dwelling in the heavens" with us and
rejoicing that Christ Himself "Delivered us from woe and [Satan's] wrath"?:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

All Praise Be To His Wonderful And Glorious Name. Amen?
------------------------
Precious friends:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!