What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Jhn 1:18

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

That doesn't mean there were two separate and distinct persons described there.

 

[Matthias]

Jhn 14:16

“And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
Jhn 14:17

“the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

When we harmonize it with the Messiah’s unitarian theology, the God of the Shema remains who he always and forever is, the Father.

 

[RLT63]

That doesn't mean there were two separate and distinct persons described there.

Well there's the Father and the Son. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Matthias]

The Church where I was Youth Pastor was non denominational. The Pastor mainly got his sermons from preachers like John Hagee, TD Jakes and Rod Parsley and put his own spin on them. I knew a lot more about the Bible than he did. But he was charismatic and successful. We had people who had come from many different denominations and no one was rejected like that if they believed in Jesus as their Savior. I got too busy with my job on the Drug Task Force and had to give up the ministry job.

My Baptist pastor was a very nice man, but he had no formal theological training. He was bi-vocational, not that there’s anything wrong with that. (Unlike him, I had formal theological training. I was bi-vocational too, so maybe that is a bias of mine.)

 

[Matthias]

Well there's the Father and the Son. I'm not sure what you mean.

She means they are the same person.

 

[Matthias]

How do you feel / what do you think about rebaptizing @RLT63?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Based on scripture

The Apostle John while writing the Book of Jesus' Revelations warned against changing anything in that Book.

What he could not have known is that the Book we call the Bible [Book] today has been changed and added to, for centuries.

Scripture must harmonize,be consistent in the narrative.

In the old testament when
God told us in Isaiah 43:11 , besides him there is no savior, and that he is one, in both old and new testaments, a Trinity is inconsistent with those truths.

Especially when the Trinity has a documented origin of being added to the Bible centuries after the Christ who taught no such thing.


A Spurious Reference to the Trinity Added in 1 John 5 verses 7-8


The Trinity Doctrine Exposed

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Ten Ways the Bible Disproves the Trinity. – Many Prophets, One Message

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Well there's the Father and the Son. I'm not sure what you mean.

The father was/us the son. The son was the father.

God said besides him there is no savior. Our God our God is one.

 

[RLT63]

The father was/us the son. The son was the father.

God said besides him there is no savior. Our God our God is one.

Sounds similar to what some Pentecostal Oneness people I know believe

 

[Peterlag]

So then you have zero grounds to deny the answers that have arrived these many pages.

Thanks.

I have seen those who write the Bible says Jesus is God and then tell me that should answer my question as to why Jesus needs to be God. I have seen those who write I have already told you, but I never saw it. I have seen those who write why do you want to know. I have seen those who write you're an idiot. But nobody has been able to give me one verse that tells us why it's necessary for Jesus to be God. The only answer given is that only God could redeem man, but the Bible says a man has to do it and I have provided those two verses that say that in the OP.

 

[Peterlag]

Let's look at this Philippians 2:6-8 because many bring it up...

Trinitarians assert that the "form" which is the Greek word "morphe" refers to Christ's inner nature as God. This is so strongly asserted that the NIV has "... being in very nature God..." I do not believe that "morphe" refers to an inner essential nature. In Bullinger's Critical Lexicon "morphe" is given a one word definition "form." The scholarly lexicon by Walter Bauer translated and revised by Arndt and Gingrich has under "morphe" "form, outward appearance, shape." The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament edited by Gerhard Kittel has "form, external appearance." Robert Thayer in his well-respected lexicon has under "morphe" "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance." Thayer says that the Greeks said that children reflect the appearance "morphe" of their parents, something easily noticed in every culture.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Im not Calvinist nor PO.
To be clear, allegiance to denominational doctrines has fractured the Ekklesia. Just as Satan intended.

My allegiance? God.
The wisdom to track the thread of his eternal teaching without being sidetracked by men's interpolations added to the Bible, like Trinity, fire and brimstone bottomless pit [how's that fire and brimstone hold in a pit with no bottom] of eternal unquenchable suffering created by a God of love, who insured not everyone understands his gospel.

The RCC burned countless people alive,as did Protestants , to sell that fear paradigm. Convert or burn like that but for eternity. Guess what? People converted.

etc...
The body returns to the dust from whence it sprang. The soul to the God who gave it.

Why do we think natural man would have never had anything to do with injecting falsity into a book that gives them power and control using the name of its God.

Sounds similar to what some Pentecostal Oneness people I know believe

 

[RLT63]

Im not Calvinist nor PO.
To be clear, allegiance to denominational doctrines has fractured the Ekklesia. Just as Satan intended.

My allegiance? God.
The wisdom to track the thread of his eternal teaching without being sidetracked by men's interpolations added to the Bible, like Trinity, fire and brimstone bottomless pit [how's that fire and brimstone hold in a pit with no bottom] of eternal unquenchable suffering created by a God of love, who insured not everyone understands his gospel.

The RCC burned countless people alive,as did Protestants , to sell that fear paradigm. Convert or burn like that but for eternity. Guess what? People converted.

etc...
The body returns to the dust from whence it sprang. The soul to the God who gave it.

Why do we think natural man would have never had anything to do with injecting falsity into a book that gives them power and control using the name of its God.

That's an interesting view. I don't hold to any denomination myself.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.

Do even know how much tap dancing is required to say what you just did?

Tell me please how Jesus returned to heaven in a body that is not only separate from his Father (the Holy Spirit is never said to have a body or even a name) but as a separate “person” who still worships his God and Father?
Please explain Revelation 3:12....where the resurrected Jesus says....
“The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (NASB)

This completely undoes God as a trinity....Even in heaven the Father is the God of Jesus....and always has been the God and Father of the Son he brought into existence as “the beginning of God’s creation” (Revelation 3:14).

Since the Bible tells us that the Almighty God has only one name (Psalm 83:18) but Jesus has many names depending upon the role he is playing in the service of his God, (Acts 4:27) so what is this “new name” he has been given? Philippians 2:9 tells us....“For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name”....how is it possible for God to exalt God? And how can God give himself a name that is higher than he already has?

 

[Aunty Jane]

1Cor. 15:42-44

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

The resurrected body that Christ had and we will have is a spiritual body with flesh and bones, no blood is mentioned.

That's because the resurrected body is now energized by the Spirit and not blood.

Do you honestly believe that flesh and bones can exist in a spiritual realm? If Jesus was in heaven with his Father for eons of time as a spirit (in God’s form) what form did he take upon his resurrection?
On what do you base the assumption that he was “flesh” when he was resurrected? (2 Peter 3:18) Was it the fact that he presented himself that way when he “appeared” to his disciples? Had he “appeared” to God’s servants in the past in a fleshly body? As the “Logos” I believe that he spoke for God all through man’s history. He was the appointed “mediator between God and men”.....something that was necessary because of sin, now a barrier between flawed humanity and their holy God.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I have seen those who write the Bible says Jesus is God and then tell me that should answer my question as to why Jesus needs to be God. I have seen those who write I have already told you, but I never saw it. I have seen those who write why do you want to know. I have seen those who write you're an idiot. But nobody has been able to give me one verse that tells us why it's necessary for Jesus to be God.

The only answer given is that only God could redeem man, but the Bible says a man has to do it and I have provided those two verses that say that in the OP.

Here's the thing and then I'm done with this bait thread. Your bait thread.

You are incredibly arrogant and pride filled. And hateful. And those are sins.

You start this thread. For 80+ pages e have foolishly sought to answer the OP.

Page after page you reject our post proofs.

You parrot, show me the verse, for page upon page.

You post a ramble about how you've come to know God's word in such a way as to imply your knowledge makes your understanding superior to ours.

And then in your post #1655
on the 83rd page of your own thread, where you've berated people's posts , saying they haven't answered your OP question, YOU admit YOU don't know the answer yourself.

Which means you have no foundation of knowledge of the actual answer by which to have judged and berated all those posts by others that you claimed did not answer the question you do not know the answer to!



85 pages!

Paying 85 pages of attention. Being criticized by a bragger who claimed to know the Bible in a way that made him superior to our knowledge, and 83 pages in , in his own thread, after all that braggadocio, condemnation of Christians answering the OP, all his parroting, show me the verse, or, ''thats not answering the OP question'', YOU ADMIT YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOURSELF!

Turns out you are not as versed in the Bible as you bragged about earlier. Or you would have known the answer.

BUT YOU DON'T!




Christians have better things to do than go for making pages 86+ ....don't we?

 

[quietthinker]

The ones that require a magnifying glass to see, or the bigger ones?

I have no problems seeing them from a distance......did you see her bed?

 

[RLT63]

Do even know how much tap dancing is required to say what you just did?

Tell me please how Jesus returned to heaven in a body that is not only separate from his Father (the Holy Spirit is never said to have a body or even a name) but as a separate “person” who still worships his God and Father?
Please explain Revelation 3:12....where the resurrected Jesus says....
“The one who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (NASB)

This completely undoes God as a trinity....Even in heaven the Father is the God of Jesus....and always has been the God and Father of the Son he brought into existence as “the beginning of God’s creation” (Revelation 3:14).

Since the Bible tells us that the Almighty God has only one name (Psalm 83:18) but Jesus has many names depending upon the role he is playing in the service of his God, (Acts 4:27) so what is this “new name” he has been given? Philippians 2:9 tells us....“For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name”....how is it possible for God to exalt God? And how can God give himself a name that is higher than he already has?

If Jesus was God, why did He call God "My God?" | GotQuestions.org

 

[RLT63]

Do you honestly believe that flesh and bones can exist in a spiritual realm? If Jesus was in heaven with his Father for eons of time as a spirit (in God’s form) what form did he take upon his resurrection?
On what do you base the assumption that he was “flesh” when he was resurrected? (2 Peter 3:18) Was it the fact that he presented himself that way when he “appeared” to his disciples? Had he “appeared” to God’s servants in the past in a fleshly body? As the “Logos” I believe that he spoke for God all through man’s history. He was the appointed “mediator between God and men”.....something that was necessary because of sin, now a barrier between flawed humanity and their holy God.

Why else was his body missing from the tomb?