What Did Paul Mean By These Words?

[Hidden In Him]

Hello again, @Hidden In Him,

* In Galatians it is the law which is described in this way, under the illustration of children who needed tutors and governors, which is what these elements of the world, or elementary rules were designed for, to tutor and govern, and shepherd them to Christ, who is the end of the law to all who believe.

* In Galatians 4:9 these laws are called 'beggarly elements'.

* In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20, the law, which was given to tutor and govern, are called rudiments of the world, to which the believer in Christ is 'dead to'. having died with Christ.

* In Hebrews the believing Hebrews who should have been teachers themselves were still children, needing to be taught the first principles of God, not having had their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I fully agree with you here, except on one point: I think the KJV translation of "elements" in Galatians is actually lending itself to a different interpretation than what you are, as if they were interpreting the word entirely differently in Galatians than they did in Colossians. "Elements" as a stand-alone translation is generally understood in other versions to be communicating the physical elements of the planet: Earth, air, fire and water.

 

[Hidden In Him]

② transcendent powers that are in control over events in this world, elements, elemental spirits. The mng. of στ. in τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου Gal 4:3; Col 2:8, 20 (for the expr. στοιχ. τ. κόσμου cp. SibOr 2, 206; 3, 80f; 8, 337)

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 946). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

Thank you, Dave. CoreIssue takes the same position. What would be your response then to post #4?

 

[Waiting on him]

Ok, I would buy this, and consider it an adequate adoption of the teaching to what we see going on today. But the driving question is still what specific principles was Paul talking about that were being taught back then : )

The God the pagans worshiped is the same God worshiped today(the god of prosperity)

 

[Dave L]

Thanks for your reply, CoreIssue. I'm aware of this translation/interpretation. The NIV is followed by a few other versions including the English Standard Version and the New Living Translation, but I think they all missed the ball here. The word στοιχεῖα was used of the planets, but never in the sense of demonic spirits who ruled over those planets, so the evidence is rather weak that this was Paul's intended meaning. It also doesn't seem to fit the context of Colossians 2:8 very well. "Philosophies and deceits, the traditions of men, and the principles of the world" all have a natural ring to them and a commonality of meaning. Philosophies and deceits, traditions of men, and elemental spiritual forces do not, so that translation doesn't seem to fit the context.

Just my take on it, but I'm not convinced the NIV is correct here. The case seems stronger for the readings of "principles" or "rudiments," both of which mean essentially the same thing and are more well-supported by a greater number of translations.

Thank you, Dave. CoreIssue takes the same position. What would be your response then to post #4?

The usage of stoicheia in Heb 5:12 is a clear reference to religious teachings (the law). Second Peter 3:10, 12 refers more literally to elements of the physical world. There is no consensus among scholars on Paul’s use of the term (Gal 4:3, 9; Col 2:8, 20). The question is whether Paul is using the term of spiritual entities/star deities in Gal 4:3, 9 and Col 2:8, 20. Three of these four instances append the word to “of the world” (kosmos; i.e., “stoicheia of the world”), but this doesn’t provide much clarity. Paul’s discussion in Gal 4 and Col 2 includes spiritual forces (angels, principalities and powers, false gods) in the context, which suggests stoicheia may refer to divine beings. He is contrasting stoicheia to salvation in Christ in some way. Since Paul is speaking to both Jews and Gentiles, he might also be using the term in different ways with respect to each audience. Stoicheia as law would make little sense to Gentiles, though it would strike a chord with Jews. My view is that in Gal 4:3 Paul’s use of stoicheia likely refers to the law and religious teaching with a Jewish audience in view (cf. Gal 4:1–7). The audience shifts to Gentiles in 4:8–11, and so it seems coherent to see stoicheia in Gal 4:9 as referring to divine beings, probably astral deities (the “Fates”). Gal 4:8 transitions to pagans, since the Jews would have known about the true God. The reference to “times and seasons and years” (4:10) would therefore point to astrological beliefs, not the Jewish calendar. Paul is therefore denying the idea that the celestial objects (sun, moon, stars) are deities. His Gentile readers should not be enslaved by the idea that these objects controlled their destiny. As a related issue, Paul’s wording here cannot therefore be taken as a denial of the existence of other gods. Paul does deny their existence in 1 Cor 8:4–6, which must not be interpreted against the context of 1 Cor 10:20–21, as it relates to the same subject matter. Paul is just denying that celestial bodies are gods that control one’s fate. This approach is also useful with respect to Col 2:8, 20, where the contexts seem to be pagan angel worship (i.e., worship of divine beings thought to have power over basic elements of the material world) and pagan asceticism. See E. Schweizer, “Slaves of the Elements and Worshipers of Angels: Gal 4:3, 9 and Col 2:8, 18, 20,” Journal of Biblical Literature 107 (1988): 455–68; Clinton E. Arnold, “Returning to the Domain of the Powers: ‘Stoicheia’ as Evil Spirits in Galatians 4:3, 9,” Novum Testamentum 38.1 (January 1996): 55–76.

Heiser, M. S. (2015). The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible (First Edition). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The God the pagans worshiped is the same God worshiped today(the god of prosperity)

Well,
A. You would have to prove that this is the false god/false teaching that the Galatians and Colossians were being tempted by, and
B. On it's face, I'd have to point out that there are a lot of pagans in the world today who worship gods other than prosperity, such as Allah or Vishnu, etc. But it does top the list of most human beings, I'll give you that.

 

[Episkopos]

Ok. I fully agree with this, Episkopos, only my reply here would be the same as I gave Scott in post #36. I think he was using the word "principles" in the sense of specific teachings, so that's what I was looking to define more acutely.

Reasonings and attitudes would be better perhaps as descriptives...

 

[Waiting on him]

The word beggarly?

Greek: πτωχός
Transliteration: ptōchos
Pronunciation: pto-khos'
Definition: From πτώσσω ptōssō (to crouch; akin to G4422 and the alternate of G4098); a beggar (as cringing) that is pauper (strictly denoting absolute or public mendicancyalthough also used in a qualified or relative sense; whereas G3993 properly means only straitened circumstances in private) literally (often as noun) or figuratively (distressed): - beggar (-ly) poor.

 

[Taken]

Let me say first off that this is not a set up question where I'm already fully decided on the answer and just want to know what everyone else's opinion is. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

I would simply say;

Principles and Philosophies are a consideration or accepting of a SET of Beliefs.

Once a SET of Principles and/or Philosophies are accepted by an Individual;

Those Principles and/or Philosophies BECOME the STANDARD, by which the Individual Measures his BELIEFS....
In ANYTHING.

Meaning: It could be; An Accepted Standard in:
Business, Arts, Politics, Households, Religion, etc.

It is the Principles and/or Philosophies that SET the "STANDARD" for STATUTES, LAWS, BYLAWS, RULES, REGUATION, CONSEQUENCES, REWARDS, etc.

A person who agrees with any Principles and/or Philosophies devised; those Principles and/or Philosophies BECOMES that Individuals "STANDARD" of Belief in a particular Thing.
(Arts, Politics, Business, Religion, etc.)

In short; that is called that Individual's...
"STANDING";
which meaning a physical appearance of erect on ones feet;
OR
Which means a preference of position in agreement with a particular Principle / Philosophy.

The Theme of Scripture teaches about being aware of MANS (ie the World's) devised Standards of Principles / Philosophies concerning the Word of God......
AND
The Lords taught Standards of His Laws, Statutes, Commands, Precepts.....

And that the Lord is teaching to consider, choose, and STAND WITH the Lords Teaching and Standards....OVER and ABOVE A mans Standards, Principles, Philosophies.

Thus the Individual BE IN STANDING, WITH the LORD, and NOT IN STANDING with the World.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Waiting on him]

Well,
A. You would have to prove that this is the false god/false teaching that the Galatians and Colossians were being tempted by, and
B. On it's face, I'd have to point out that there are a lot of pagans in the world today who worship gods other than prosperity, such as Allah or Vishnu, etc. But it does top the list of most human beings, I'll give you that.

Colossians 3:2-7 KJV
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. [4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. [5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: [7] In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

Tecarta Bible

 

[Hidden In Him]

The usage of stoicheia in Heb 5:12 is a clear reference to religious teachings (the law).

Correct.

Second Peter 3:10, 12 refers more literally to elements of the physical world.

Correct.

There is no consensus among scholars on Paul’s use of the term (Gal 4:3, 9; Col 2:8, 20).

Correct.

Paul’s discussion in Gal 4 and Col 2 includes spiritual forces (angels, principalities and powers, false gods) in the context, which suggests stoicheia may refer to divine beings.

This is where supposition comes in, and the interpretation of the entire epistles would have to be dealt with, which would be an extremely LONG discussion. But I do not hold the expression "the worship of the angels" to be communicating a worship directed AT angels, but a participation in the worship of the angels such as was practiced by the Essenes, who I take to be the authors behind the Colossian heresy.

My view is that in Gal 4:3 Paul’s use of stoicheia likely refers to the law and religious teaching with a Jewish audience in view (cf. Gal 4:1–7). The audience shifts to Gentiles in 4:8–11

I agree with the first statement but do not with the second. He is making an assumption that the unnamed "Gentile", i.e. pagan principles come into view, yet they are never mentioned specifically in either text. The more natural reading is to assume he is referring to them returning (in Galatians 4:8-11) to Jewish law when they were supposed to be walking in the things of the Spirit, as is strongly suggested by verse 10. The Jews placed great importance on keeping "days, months, times and years," and in Galatians 4:17 Paul identifies those who were leading them to observe such things by saying, "They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them." Who are "they" here if not the same people he refers to in Galatians 3:1; the Judaizers who were urging them to return to Jewish Law (Galatians 3:2 through 4:7)

 

[farouk]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

I believe you are referring to the Strongs concordance word number G4747 (stoicheion). Used by the Holy Spirit in Galatians 4:3 & 9, Colossians 2:8 & 20, and in Hebrews 5:12, it is used also of natural elements in 2 Peter 3:10 & 12.

* How the Holy Spirit uses this word is what matters, isn't it? More even than any dictionary or concordance definition. So a careful consideration of each usage, (in it's context) should provide the meaning that the Holy Spirit intended in using it.

In Galatians 4:3 ('elements of the world') the meaning is - 'elementary rules'.
In Galatians 4:9 these elementary rules are called, 'beggarly elements'.
In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20 the translation is, 'rudiments of the world'.
In Hebrews 5:12 the translation is, 'the first principles of the oracles of God'.

* The context of each usage makes clear what these 'elements', 'rudiments' or 'principles' are. There is no need for us to lean to our own understanding.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'm reminded in you last phrase of Proverbs 3.5: 'lean not unto thine own understanding'.

 

[farouk]

Hello again, @Hidden In Him,

* In Galatians it is the law which is described in this way, under the illustration of children who needed tutors and governors, which is what these elements of the world, or elementary rules were designed for, to tutor and govern, and shepherd them to Christ, who is the end of the law to all who believe.

* In Galatians 4:9 these laws are called 'beggarly elements'.

* In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20, the law, which was given to tutor and govern, are called rudiments of the world, to which the believer in Christ is 'dead to'. having died with Christ.

* In Hebrews the believing Hebrews who should have been teachers themselves were still children, needing to be taught the first principles of God, not having had their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

In our local church we have recently been studying the Pedagogue in Galatians, the schoolmaster that leads people to Christ, the whole purpose of the law.

 

[farouk]

Galations talks about an heir being limited by age, as a child who would become heir he was bound by the limits set because he could not use or Instill all that his birthright would bring him as an adult - it would only be when ' he actually became an heir ' that he could do things differently.

Before we were redeemed through Christ we were limited, but once Christ came we would ' become heirs ' and this would mean that we had so much more than just the basics ( rudamental ) principles -

Isn't the warning about losing sight of what we have in Christ, as opposed to what the world just has - it's so easy to ' believe ' what the world tells us , but it's what Christ tells us that counts. It's so easy to believe what ' worldly wise people ' relay but what about the wisdom of God. It's so easy to believe ' you know nothing because you are untaught and not clever ' but what about the knowledge that God gives us ect ect.

As Christians we see and know far more than those who do not have Christ , do not have the Holy Spirit- the world doesn't even know it's in a spiritual battle , hence why so many people fight one another ect - but we do - so it should impact how we live, how we see things ect

Not sure if that's what you were asking, but that's what I pulled from reading and thinking about the quote in Galatians, in context and about thinking about what rudamental meant ( basic principles )

Rita

We have been studying Galatians lately and it seems that Paul is thinking of believers from a Jewish background having been familiar with an Old Testament background, but when the fulness of revelation in Christ in the Gospel came to them it was time to move forward, and not go back (which would be to miss the point of what the Old Testament background was for). The fulness of what the heir enters into by faith is immense.

 

[ScottA]

1. Who do you think is "the god of this world"?
2. Who do you think are the false pagan "gods" of this world?
3. Who do you think Animists appease worldwide?
4. Who do you think is engaged in spiritual warfare with Christians?
5. Who do you think promotes false Christianity and false doctrines?
6. Who do you think is behind all the spiritual error and confusion in Christendom?
7. Who do you think appears as an angel of light to deceive people?
8. Who do you think is behind all the vain philosophies of this world?

THESE ARE NOT PRINCIPLES BUT POWERS OF DARKNESS WHICH ARE UNPRINCIPLED BY DEFINITION.

Human beings are not operating in a spiritual vacuum. The only *principle* that influences humanity is unprincipled Satanic and demonic deception. Those are the elemental spirits behind all that is contrary to God and to His Word.

Indeed. It is good to see it all from the proper perspective. When Paul wrote of such principles, the perspective was from being in the world, but with an effort to come out. What you have described above is from the perspective of having come out of the world, but being "alive and remaining" in the world. This is the proper perspective for those who are in Christ, and He in them.

 

[ScottA]

Well, I interpret Paul's expression to be referring specifically to teachings, given it is found together with the phrase "the traditions of men." What traditions and principles in the sense of teachings?

I wouldn't think that "traditions of men" was a reference to "teachings" (of men) necessarily. However, the church has mostly leaned in that direction, i.e., feeding the poor, Christian life in the world, etc., rather than "seeking first the kingdom of heaven." Not that it is not the proper order...because it is. The natural is indeed first, and then the spiritual...but that is not the advice of Christ to "seek first the kingdom of heaven."

So then, we can see how the natural being first has been foretold and predictable, but because of the ways of men, in spite of the perfect will of God. Thus, those who consider God rather than men, such as Abraham who was a "friend" of God, or David who was "a man after God's own heart", are most esteemed and inline with the will of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Reasonings and attitudes would be better perhaps as descriptives...

Not sure the use of the word in Greek supports a definition of "reasonings" or "attitudes." The base meaning of the word is elements, i.e. the component parts of something. Hence, a set of basic principles one is taught, such as in a school curriculum. I think reasonings/attitudes is too broad a definition.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Principles and Philosophies are a consideration or accepting of a SET of Beliefs.

Once a SET of Principles and/or Philosophies are accepted by an Individual... the Lord is teaching to consider, choose, and STAND WITH the Lords Teaching and Standards....OVER and ABOVE A mans Standards, Principles, Philosophies.

I agree. So what exactly would you say these principles are that Paul was telling the Galatians and Colossians to shun in favor of Christ?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I wouldn't think that "traditions of men" was a reference to "teachings" (of men) necessarily. However, the church has mostly leaned in that direction, i.e., feeding the poor, Christian life in the world, etc., rather than "seeking first the kingdom of heaven."

You seem to be interpreting the word "traditions" in the sense of practices. This is a proper definition, but traditions do not become practices if they are not first teachings, so I hold to the view that Paul had specific teachings in mind here.

 

[Taken]

I agree. So what exactly would you say these principles are that Paul was telling the Galatians and Colossians to shun in favor of Christ?

I believe it doesn't matter to WHOM Paul preached, his principle message was the same.

Broadly;

For one to not remove oneself from Christ and His Gospel.

To reveal the Son in oneself.

To Walk in the Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

You seem to be interpreting the word "traditions" in the sense of practices. This is a proper definition, but traditions do not become practices if they are not first teachings, so I hold to the view that Paul had specific teachings in mind here.

Fair enough. What specific teachings?