What do you think about gender equality in Christianity?

[Pearl]

Consider what is being promoted here if you will.
Division, yet again.
We're told we are all one in Christ in the church. But we're to be separated by roles "outside" the church due to our sex.

We're all one in Christ in our salvation.We are not when "outside" the church.

We are temples of God. Men and women carry the holy spirit within.
The law that separated the sexes into roles of master and subservient are done away.

When married, we aren't to walk a few measured steps behind our husband.
We're not to suffer marital rape because someone would insist our body is not ours to do with as we will. But is property of the husband.

When we are all one in Christ in the New Covenant, and are as one in our marriage, in the Old Testament, the effort to divide and enslave, due to gender is false teaching and tragedy.


When in the beginning we, men and women, were both created of and from God. Created he both, male and female created he them.

Those who prefer the separation doctrine will not be swayed by God's truth.
Consider why. Because they do not read it with an open heart and mind. Their barriers abrogate the words of The Word.

In the end, they shall stand and be judged for every word. As shall we all.
Live Live! Live Loved. Nowhere in God's truth does he say on any day he created women to be a doormat.
What he does tell us is that the need for repentance and redemption is because one man brought sin into the world.
And by God's planning and grace, one woman birthed the Savior from it.
Know your God given role. Emlowered! As one in the church that doesn't cease to exist when it's blessed grace filled members are in the world, or married.

God showed me that male/female partnerships should be like of dance partners, he leading she following both equal.

 

[Brakelite]

YOu are very incorrect. Jesus knows He is God and He knows we are not. He knows He is not equal to man.

The value of anything is measured by that which you are willing to pay for it. God paid a ransom for our lives. The price of our redemption was the life of His Son.

 

[Amazed@grace]

God showed me that male/female partnerships should be like of dance partners, he leading she following both equal.

Yes. Because it takes two to dance as a couple united in the music.

And if it happens the husband can't dance, the wife leads and shows him how.

 

[Brakelite]

Of course.

However, there is no NT scripture that allows a woman to usurp authority over a man or even teach a man.

The elder women must only teach women in a church setting.

The head of the woman is the man, so a congregation should not allow the reverse order.

That idea is new age.

So you think, being a man, a woman has nothing she can teach you?

 

[Pearl]

This is a good site to read about women in the bible and their roles along side the men.
Home | Marg Mowczko

And I read recently that the word 'helpmeet' which described Eve's role is in fact the same word that is used as regards to the Holy Spirit being our helper. How is that in any way subordinate. But there will always be men who put us down and even some that believe it is okay to rape their wives with God's permission.

 

[Levind]

I will be happy to share the Scriptures which support my understanding of these issues. "Gender equality" as seen in Western societies comes from Satan.

THE DISTINCT ROLES OF MEN AND WOMEN
1. Within the Body of Christ (which is a spiritual entity), there are no distinctions, since all are children of God by faith in Christ: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26-28)

2. Within a marriage, the Christian man is the "head" or authority over the woman: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God... For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head [THE HEAD COVERING AS A SYMBOL OF SUBMISSION TO THE MAN'S AUTHORITY] because of the angels. (1 Cor 11:3,8-10)

3. Christian wives must submit themselves to their own husbands as unto the Lord: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

4. Christian women must maintain silence during Christian worship:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1 Cor 14:34,35)

5. Christian women are forbidden to (1) preach, (2) teach, and (3) assume authority within the local church: Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer [ALLOW] not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved [SANCTIFIED] in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Tim 2:11-15)

As you can see, God has clearly stated the distinct roles of men and women, and Scripture is your final authority. As to Mary Magdalene, kindly examine ALL the resurrection accounts in all the Gospels, and then see where Mary stood.

Thanks, for excellence answer.

I agree, God's words is the only authority about truth. That's why we need to discuss it to really understand His intention. No offense, but even Vatican sometimes get it wrong, however that's acceptable since we're human after all.

1. I have the same view with you. And I think, besides there are no distinction between man and woman, it also reveals, actually, man equal with woman.

2. Again, I have the same view with you. If we are aware Christ is our top chief, like point no.1, there is no distinction and also revel the same thing.

3. That's may be right. It doesn't show any distinction between man and woman here, as the man also need to submit himself into a woman. It's clear Christ against marriage divorce. Actually, I have different point of view for this phrase. I feel this phrase intend to describe God and human relation. As a wife, human, His creatures shall submit themselves to God, the husband. Christ ever taught a parable about this.

4. As we know Paul is Jew, and story Adam-Ever may be influencing the Jew deeply. In Bible, Eve is the one who makes Adam eat "the apple" because she speaks "too much". I think, when Paul wrote letters to Corinthians community, he might remember Adam-Eve story so he said like that. But honestly that's still my personal opinion, it's need detail study to really understand Paul words.

5. My view for this point is the same like view in point no.4, it looks like Paul had been influenced by Adam-Eve traditional story.

 

[Amazed@grace]

“Equality” as seen in Western societies comes from Satan, is anti-Christian and anti-American.

The term comes from godless cultural Marxists who hope to confuse freedom loving Americans with the founding principle of equal rights and equal protection under the law.

The ultimate goal is to cause people to become intellectually disarmed, unable to discern differences, finally the difference between right and wrong.

Such a population will be easy pickings for Satan and his minions.

I'd think such person's are already his minions.

Gender discrimination comes from Satan.
Jesus condemned the Pharisees imparting their will against people and cloaking that as God and his law. Which is what they invoked when they wanted him stoned to death, and later crucified.

Jesus, being their God, Messiah, walked in the truth and challenged their "laws".
He worked on the sabbath, he healed people. What did the lurking Pharisees witness then? Not miracles happening before their eyes, but a man breaking the laws they prosecuted.
I think there is a message for all of us, for all time, there.

Women were subservient in his time. Lesser and property of their husband. Unable to speak contrary to what their spouse would want or advise. Women were not educated. They had a role. Not a choice.

Jesus brought women disciples into his ministry. They learned at the side of the master of creation. And a woman was the first one to whom he revealed himself resurrected.
Jesus ministry flew in the face of segregation roles. Jesus was admonished by his male disciples for helping a woman outside their tribe. The Samaritan.
Jesus corrected them. Her faith saved her.
Jesus is Savior of the world. How silly it is to think the saved , because they are women, are still prisoners of discrimination because of their sex.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Of course.

However, there is no NT scripture that allows a woman to usurp authority over a man or even teach a man.

The elder women must only teach women in a church setting.

The head of the woman is the man, so a congregation should not allow the reverse order.

That idea is new age.

As @Tone mentioned earlier, the key word is "usurp" which is something no woman nor any person should do.

There are clear examples of women holding various offices in the church, including prophetess, deaconess, teachers, and pastors. God didn't condemn or prevent it. This being the case, it would be wise to rightly divide the Word. Take all of scripture together as a whole. Most pastors and other headship positions are held by men, but that doesn't negate the fact that God has placed women in those roles at times as well.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Eve is the one who makes Adam eat "the apple" because she speaks "too much".

LoL! Eve didn't make Adam eat the fruit. This is laughable. Scripture says he was with her when she was deceived. Why did he not open his mouth and stop her, and give her the truth that God had spoken so that she could recognize the deception?? He wilfully stood there and watched her be deceived, then she ate, and handed the fruit to him and he ate. She gave it to him. She didn't put it in his mouth, and she didn't mash his jaws up and down and make him chew... and swallow. LOL

You men have every excuse, don't you? Just like Adam did.... "The woman which you gave me...." ...God obviously didn't buy it, because Adam received punishment and death just the same as Eve.

Bottom line... Adam failed to keep the garden. What in the world was he thinking?!

 

[Amazed@grace]

LoL! Eve didn't make Adam eat the fruit. This is laughable. Scripture says he was with her when she was deceived. Why did he not open his mouth and stop her, and give her the truth that God had spoken so that she could recognize the deception?? He wilfully stood there and watched her be deceived, then she ate, and handed the fruit to him and he ate. She gave it to him. She didn't put it in his mouth, and she didn't mash his jaws up and down and make him chew... and swallow. LOL

You men have every excuse, don't you? Just like Adam did.... "The woman which you have me...." ...God obviously didn't buy it, because Adam received punishment and death just the same as Eve.

Bottom line... Adam failed to keep the garden. What in the world was he thinking?!

I think he actually was joking.

 

[amadeus]

The Apostle Paul praised the women "pastors" , in service in his churches.

It is I think a grave injustice to one of the most learned of God's Apostles,Paul, and for him and his words to be misconstrued as evidence women are to remain quiet in God's church, accept they are weak vessels, and have no right to advise, or lead men in any way.

When those ideologies enter the church they divide the church. And those false ideas also misrepresent the whole of Paul's work with women serving beside him.
And also, obscure and even ignore what Paul said in, Galatians 3

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.…
Berean Study Bible

What shall God say about certain in the church presuming, through their own motives, to dare tell anyone God will never call women into his service as pastors?

And this due to their God given sex.
Conforming God's word that is featured in guiding the redeemed, while sustaining sins in the process.Bigotry and discrimination.

When an ideology calls woman lesser, in the face God calling us all one because there is no separation in the church due to sex, race, nationality.

God says barriers no longer exist between people who are saved. We are all one in Christ Jesus.
Others insist the barriers exist. Making God a liar and a fool.

What is that?

Wrong!
That's what. Wrong.

Wrong! That is what it is. Wrong!

As the natural women is to receive the seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. Consider in this Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives.

Any natural man or natural women who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman.

Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man.

Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is the Body (of Christ).

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring is of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real" world of churches [what the eyes of natural (carnal) men (both genders) see], the preacher when he [or she] is presenting the Word is as the Father, but actually, as we know, he misses the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. Error on both parts but an ideal pattern exists if we are able to see it and to replicate it [without God's help, who can do it?].

As to the entrance of sin, consider this: We know that sin is a result of man (male and/or female) having carnal possibilities. Without God, those carnal possibilities have their way... the ways of men or the way of the flesh. When the forbidden fruit was eaten they, both [male and female] of them died (not after 900 some years, but forthwith) to God. The hedge around the "world", which was them (they were the "world"), was gone. They were no longer OF the Father in His protective enclosure (under His covering):

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

Jesus brought back the possibility of "whosoever will" having God's hedge around them.

As to all of these comparisons, [be they male and female, gentile and Jew, etc.] consider what Paul wrote here:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

 

[Amazed@grace]

As the natural women is to receive the seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. Consider in this Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives.

Any natural man or natural women who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman.

Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man.

Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is the Body (of Christ).

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring is of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real" world of churches [what the eyes of natural (carnal) men (both genders) see], the preacher when he [or she] is presenting the Word is as the Father, but actually, as we know, he misses the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. Error on both parts but an ideal pattern exists if we are able to see it and to replicate it [without God's help, who can do it?].

As to the entrance of sin, consider this: We know that sin is a result of man (male and/or female) having carnal possibilities. Without God, those carnal possibilities have their way... the ways of men or the way of the flesh. When the forbidden fruit was eaten they, both [male and female] of them died (not after 900 some years, but forthwith) to God. The hedge around the "world", which was them (they were the "world"), was gone. They were no longer OF the Father in His protective enclosure (under His covering):

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

Jesus brought back the possibility of "whosoever will" having God's hedge around them.

As to all of these comparisons, [be they male and female, gentile and Jew, etc.] consider what Paul wrote here:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

God is spirit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Consider what is being promoted here if you will.
Division, yet again.
We're told we are all one in Christ in the church. But we're to be separated by roles "outside" the church due to our sex.

We're all one in Christ in our salvation.We are not when "outside" the church.

No. Not outside the church but within it as well. When it comes to husbands and wives, this is why they were commanded to be silent. By a wife usurping authority over her husband, she was violating what the marriage was supposed to represent, suddenly representing the church usurping authority over Christ. This would be a sin, hence the command not to allow it.

We are temples of God. Men and women carry the holy spirit within.
The law that separated the sexes into roles of master and subservient are done away.

The roles of "master and subservient" as you put it have not been done away with regard to Christ and His bride the church. Those who take a Gnostic view will tell you differently, but this is not the case in Orthodox Christian theology. He is still Lord. This is why Sarah was honored in the epistle, because she called Abraham "Lord." She was reflecting the relationship between Christ and the church properly. The god of this world wants to tell women especially that they are "free" of needing to be "dictated" over, but the Lord Jesus Christ is no dictator. He waits patiently for His bride, and doesn't force Himself on her. He waits for her to WANT to give herself to Him in love, knowing that He died for her and loves her more than anyone ever could.

When we are all one in Christ in the New Covenant, and are as one in our marriage, in the Old Testament, the effort to divide and enslave, due to gender is false teaching and tragedy.

Again, what is the "tragedy" in what I am saying?

 

[amadeus]

God is spirit.

Amen!

 

[Hidden In Him]

No. Not outside the church but within it as well. When it comes to husbands and wives, this is why they were commanded to be silent. By a wife usurping authority over her husband, she was violating what the marriage was supposed to represent, suddenly representing the church usurping authority over Christ. This would be a sin, hence the command not to allow it.

There are some who would teach that the Christ's church His Bride has authority over "god," but this is just a deception designed by the enemy. In the end, those deceived by this doctrine will stand before Satan unless they repent (sorry, but has to be said), and they find out that they willingly placed themselves into the hands of the cruelest dictator of all.

The concept that there is no one in charge in Heaven makes no sense from a governmental and kingdom standpoint, and so too the concept that there is no true Head in the marriage between Christ and the church is likewise fraught with problems both theologically and logically. It makes no sense. No kingdom is run haphazardly. Any kingdom that hopes to stand the test of time must be run by a king, and in this case the King of kings.

 

[amadeus]

No. Not outside the church but within it as well. When it comes to husbands and wives, this is why they were commanded to be silent. By a wife usurping authority over her husband, she was violating what the marriage was supposed to represent, suddenly representing the church usurping authority over Christ. This would be a sin, hence the command not to allow it.

Our marriages my friend, are types and shadows of the reality. The Reality is Jesus the perfect Bridegroom to the perfect Bride. Who but God is perfect?

Our marriages, types and shadows all of them, even the best of them fall short of the glory of God because both husband and wife fall short. Only a marriage between two people, who have already overcome the world of their own flesh as did Jesus, would present a better than poor likeness of Reality. Are there any overcomers among us who have not finished their natural courses? I have no doubt that there are, but how many of those few would God have brought together in a natural marriage as well? Not mine and I believe I have a good marriage when I look around at other marriages.

He is still working on both me and my wife as we allow Him to do so... What is the end result to be? Well seeing as how we are both still seeing through a glass darkly, what do we know about it?

Give God the glory!

 

[Curtis]

Galatians 3 BSB

What’s Galatians 3 supposed to prove?

That’s already been covered.

As pertains to salvation, there is no distinction between male or female, Jew nor Greek, slave or freeman.

That has nothing to do with the roles given men and women, or with gender equality.

You left a lot out of your post:

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Paul stated women are not to usurp authority over, or teach men, but to be in submission, because the man was created first, and because Adam wasn’t deceived by Satan, but Eve was.

Women can preach, evangelize, teach women and children, and do anything but be the head of any congregation that has men in it, meaning they can’t be head pastor over any church with men in it.

There’s a chain of command in scripture, like it or not, and it’s not PC but God isn’t interested in leftist ideology:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Our marriages my friend, are types and shadows of the reality. The Reality is Jesus the perfect Bridegroom to the perfect Bride. Who but God is perfect?

Our marriages, types and shadows all of them, even the best of them fall short of the glory of God because both husband and wife fall short. Only a marriage between two people, who have already overcome the world of their own flesh as did Jesus, would present a better than poor likeness of Reality. Are there any overcomers among us who have not finished their natural courses? I have no doubt that there are, but how many of those few would God have brought together in a natural marriage as well? Not mine and I believe I have a good marriage when I look around at other marriages.

Yes. This is a granted. And where each of them fail they repent, and set themselves back to the task at hand. I have always thought the task might be harder on the husband since He was supposed to be a reflection of a perfect God. But then I came to realize this was a chauvinistic position because the wife is called to become spotless as well, just as the Bride of Christ is supposed to. The mystery is great, as Paul said, but it does not really allow for sin, any more than any other part of true Christianity does. It makes amends for it, but it does not allow for it. We are all called to a great calling in Him, and it is only as Christ fully abides within His church through the Spirit that she is cleansed of all sin and filled with righteousness, holiness, faith, joy, love, strength and every attribute found in Him, to glorify both Him and her.

 

[amadeus]

What’s Galatians 3 supposed to prove?

That’s already been covered.

As pertains to salvation, there is no distinction between male or female, Jew nor Greek, slave or freeman.

That has nothing to do with the roles given men and women, or with gender equality.

You left a lot out of your post:

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Paul stated women are not to usurp authority over, or teach men, but to be in submission, because the man was created first, and because Adam wasn’t deceived by Satan, but Eve was.

Women can preach, evangelize, teach women and children, and do anything but be the head of any congregation that has men in it, meaning they can’t be head pastor over any church with men in it.

There’s a chain of command in scripture, like it or not, and it’s not PC but God isn’t interested in leftist ideology:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Is the NT to be followed as a black and white rule book as the natural children of Israel were supposed to be following the law given to Moses by God for them? They were unable to do that then. Are we better than they are? What is the difference?

God had an order in the OT and He has an order now. Who knows that order exactly and complete correct... and then knowing it, is able to following it absolutely? You describe it as if you do. Why is that some people disagree with you? Could it be that some or even all of us sometimes are mixing our own interpretations with God's? How can we do better?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1

 

[Wrangler]

Lesser and property of their husband. Unable to speak contrary to what their spouse would want or advise.

Except it is totally untrue. Ahab and Jezebel. John The Baptist and King Herods wife and daughter are 2 powerful examples refuting what you claim.