What does Colossians 1:16 mean when it says "For by him were all things created..."

[RLT63]

Even if they pull out a bad translation it still does not help them. If Jesus emptied himself, it means he became a container. And most people know the container and the contents are not one in essence.

You point out that that passage says Jesus came in the form of God and that the form of God is not God. It also says he came in the likeness of man and the fashion of man. Does that mean he was not a man since the likeness and fashion of a man is not the same as a man?

 

[Matthias]

Something and / or someone caused them to think differently. What and / or who was it?

“Is the question indiscreet?” - The Man With No Name

“No. The question isn’t indiscreet. But the answer could be.” - Col. Douglas Mortimer

 

[Wrangler]

You point out that that passage says Jesus came in the form of God and that the form of God is not God. It also says he came in the likeness of man and the fashion of man. Does that mean he was not a man since the likeness and fashion of a man is not the same as a man?

Let's take a look @ v7-8 (NLT):

Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.​

Notice how v7 does not say he gave up his inherent power as Creator of the universe, his inherent power of God? Since Jesus is not God but of God, he is divine though not the deity with privileges. Who gave Jesus these privileges? God, in his unitarian nature.

How do we know this? Because he did not humble himself based on his own sovereign will but in obedience to ... wait for it ... obedience to God, in his unitarian nature. v8 has Jesus as the subject of the sentence where the object of the sentence is ... wait for it ... not the father ... wait for it ... God, in his unitarian nature.

I suppose your point addresses the mere man angle so many 3-in-1-ers invoke.

 

[Wrangler]

Now Wrangler I have to say this because I believe it to be the truth. Your statement above is brilliant.

Thank you. They often retreat to what they think is safe intellect grounds, like going to the native language. But I enjoy there is no safety with an inherently contradictory concept.

In a recent analysis of John 1, a fine upstanding, card carrying member of trinity land did all he could to reply, “I disagree.”

Well, he certainly told off trinitarians everywhere.

 

[RLT63]

Let's take a look @ v7-8 (NLT):

Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.​

Notice how v7 does not say he gave up his inherent power as Creator of the universe, his inherent power of God? Since Jesus is not God but of God, he is divine though not the deity with privileges. Who gave Jesus these privileges? God, in his unitarian nature.

How do we know this? Because he did not humble himself based on his own sovereign will but in obedience to ... wait for it ... obedience to God, in his unitarian nature. v8 has Jesus as the subject of the sentence where the object of the sentence is ... wait for it ... not the father ... wait for it ... God, in his unitarian nature.

I suppose your point addresses the mere man angle so many 3-in-1-ers invoke.

Oh I believe in his humanity. I was just pointing out that Unitarians split that passage.

 

[Matthias]

Oh I believe in his humanity. I was just pointing out that Unitarians split that passage.

Some unitarians do and some unitarians don’t. (I don’t.)

 

[Peterlag]

You point out that that passage says Jesus came in the form of God and that the form of God is not God. It also says he came in the likeness of man and the fashion of man. Does that mean he was not a man since the likeness and fashion of a man is not the same as a man?

He was not a mere man (A regular dude) that was born from normal parents. He was God's only son (at least since Adam) that came. This man came in the likeness and fashion of other men but was not a regular man. He was the son. The one who would end up being God's son who He has made both Lord and Christ. The Christ who God glorified, justified, sanctified, anointed, and ordained. The one God made to be our mediator, advocator, and intercessor. The one God highly exalted.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Where in these 3 verses does it say Jesus emptied himself because I don't see the word empty.

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

"Made himself of no reputation" is a common translation, but there are other translations. But what does that mean? He relinquished His glory, authority, power as God and became a man. He was in the "form of God" ( vs. 6)4 and made himself into the form of man. Many translations say emptied himself as if pouring himself out from heaven into a human vessel. Read some other translations:

ASV
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;

AMP
but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].

ESV
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of a man.

HCSB
Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form,

PHILLIPS
Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be. For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal. That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus “every knee shall bow”, whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, “every tongue shall confess” that Jesus Christ” is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

KJV
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

NASB
but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men.

TLB
but laid aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men.

NIV
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

NKJV
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

RSV
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

VOICE
But He poured Himself out to fill a vessel brand new; a servant in form and a man indeed. The very likeness of humanity,

WEB
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

YLT
but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

 

[RLT63]

He was not a mere man (A regular dude) that was born from normal parents. He was God's only son (at least since Adam) that came. This man came in the likeness and fashion of other men but was not a regular man. He was the son. The one who would end up being God's son who He has made both Lord and Christ. The Christ who God glorified, justified, sanctified, anointed, and ordained. The one God made to be our mediator, advocator, and intercessor. The one God highly exalted.

2 Corinthians 5:19

 

[Peterlag]

2 Corinthians 5:19

May I be so bold to ask what the difference is from your 2 Corinthians 5:19 that says God was in Christ and a hundred and fifty other verses that say God and Christ are in me?

 

[Peterlag]

"Made himself of no reputation" is a common translation, but there are other translations. But what does that mean? He relinquished His glory, authority, power as God and became a man. He was in the "form of God" ( vs. 6)4 and made himself into the form of man. Many translations say emptied himself as if pouring himself out from heaven into a human vessel. Read some other translations:

ASV
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;

AMP
but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].

ESV
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of a man.

HCSB
Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form,

PHILLIPS
Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be. For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal. That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus “every knee shall bow”, whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, “every tongue shall confess” that Jesus Christ” is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

KJV
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

NASB
but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men.

TLB
but laid aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men.

NIV
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

NKJV
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

RSV
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

VOICE
But He poured Himself out to fill a vessel brand new; a servant in form and a man indeed. The very likeness of humanity,

WEB
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

YLT
but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

I was with my boss today and I humbled myself in the meeting. Made myself of no reputation. I relinquished my glory, authority, and power as a man. Does that mean I am really a cat?

 

[RLT63]

.

 

[Matthias]

.

?

Mysterious, yet provocative.

Who knew a punctuation mark with no context could carry such power?

How’s your job search coming along?

 

[RLT63]

?

Mysterious, yet provocative.

Who knew a punctuation mark with no context could carry such power?

How’s your job search coming along?

I found something. Supposed to hear from them next week

 

[RLT63]

?

Mysterious, yet provocative.

Who knew a punctuation mark with no context could carry such power?

How’s your job search coming along?

I started to say something then changed my mind hence the blank post

 

[Matthias]

I started to say something then changed my mind hence the blank post

Think how different it would be if you had just deleted the post instead. Life takes funny twists and turns sometimes over a jot or a tittle.

 

[Matthias]

I found something. Supposed to hear from them next week

This time it brought good news to my ears.

 

[RLT63]

This time it brought good news to my ears.

I have been at my current job almost 14 years as Head of Security at a Hospital. I drive about an hour and 15 minutes to work. Recently they fired the Emergency Management Director and told me I have to do that job as well as mine. I have found something at another hospital in the city I live in. If all goes well they will contact me next week.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I was with my boss today and I humbled myself in the meeting. Made myself of no reputation. I relinquished my glory, authority, and power as a man. Does that mean I am really a cat?

Seriously, if you have a boss, you are not in authority, you are a slave to your boss. Jesus is God, preexisted with the Father and the Holy Spirit. All three were present at His baptism, Jesus got dunked, the Father spoke and the Holy Spirit descended. The pre-incarnate Jesus is the creator, all things were created by him, through him and for him. The Father refers to Him as God. (Hebrews 1:8) He is equal to the Father. But He relingquished that (put aside) glory temporarilty and became a man and submitted to the Father and accomplished His purpose.
The mystery of God has existed since the Fall of Man. It was God's purpose to come down and personally reveal Himself to us, face to face. So it happened and they saw Him and they referred to Him as Emmanuel, "God with us".
You are certainly not a cat, but some may think you are a donkey for your view. Since you do not indentify Jesus as God, then of course it would follow that you do not worship Him or give Him His full recognition that He deserves. Why would you? To view Him as lesser of a being than He is, is degrading and a dishonor to Him. When every knee bows to Him, we will be worshipping God in all the fullness of His Glory, not just an earthly King of Kings, Lord of Lords.

 

[farouk]

I have been at my current job almost 14 years as Head of Security at a Hospital. I drive about an hour and 15 minutes to work. Recently they fired the Emergency Management Director and told me I have to do that job as well as mine. I have found something at another hospital in the city I live in. If all goes well they will contact me next week.

@RLT63 Hoping it goes well....