What is the correct view on genesis

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
a literal world that we literally live on was made.

Metaphorical? I say no.

spiritual and eternal meaning behind/in addition to the literal meaning? I say yes.

for instance, it describes the making of the sun and moon. Literal. But there is a light spoken of days B EFORE the creation of sun and moon. The beginning of John tells us who this light is.I guess that could be considered a metaphor...Jesus is light...But I see it more as...hmm, difficult to put in words.

I guess I would say, there is the literal and there is the spiritual. The spiritual is what's important. For instance, the literal of do not murder is: do not stab,bludgeon or choke anyone to death. The spirit is that if you have anger in your heart, you have already murdered them. Probably 99% of us will never physically murder anyone. But we murder indiscriminately in rush hour traffic or when the in-laws come to visit!
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and 101G

Deborah_

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2015
901
855
93
Swansea, Wales
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Once you start doubting creation where do you stop. If Moses was only writing allegorically in Genesis 1, then there is no reason to accept as literal the flood, Sodom, the life of Abraham and his offspring, the trials of Joseph....

I was trying to make to clear that they don't doubt creation. God created the world; that's non-negotiable. But why can't Moses write 'allegorically' in chapter 1 and historically in chapter 12 onwards? There were, after all, no witnesses to what happened in most of chapter 1, so it can't be an 'eyewitness' account - it could be anything. Whereas the history of Abraham's family is family history - and therefore likely to be 'proper' history.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
But I can't see anything in Genesis 1:1 that commands us to "take it literally". One can be utterly convinced that God created everything in the universe, and yet still regard the creation account in Genesis 1 as poetic rather than historically literal. And when I say 'poetic', I do not mean 'legend' or 'fable'. There are many ways of presenting truth, and bare literalism is only one of them.
The command is not in Genesis but in Deuteronomy, which are both within the Torah: And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. (Deut 8:3). This was also quoted by Jesus in Matthew 4:4. If *every word* was not to be taken in its plain literal sense, that commandment of God would be meaningless.

Your term "bare literalism" is pejorative, but the Lord Jesus Christ Himself applied bare literalism to Genesis.

MATTHEW 19
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Was Christ literally quoting from the Genesis account, and were His hearers understanding His words and quotations in their plain literal sense? Absolutely. So here is what Christ was quoting, and at the same time establishing the veracity of the Genesis account:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Gen 1:27; 2:21-24)

Now if you wish to put a *poetic* spin on this, fine. The Hebrew language and idioms have a tendency to be poetic. But that does not change anything. However, there is another thread by Trekson, where he has re-invented the Genesis account to accommodate his flights of fancy. And that is unacceptable.
 

Deborah_

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2015
901
855
93
Swansea, Wales
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
The command is not in Genesis but in Deuteronomy, which are both within the Torah: And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. (Deut 8:3). This was also quoted by Jesus in Matthew 4:4. If *every word* was not to be taken in its plain literal sense, that commandment of God would be meaningless.

Your term "bare literalism" is pejorative, but the Lord Jesus Christ Himself applied bare literalism to Genesis.

MATTHEW 19
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Was Christ literally quoting from the Genesis account, and were His hearers understanding His words and quotations in their plain literal sense? Absolutely. So here is what Christ was quoting, and at the same time establishing the veracity of the Genesis account:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Gen 1:27; 2:21-24)

Now if you wish to put a *poetic* spin on this, fine. The Hebrew language and idioms have a tendency to be poetic. But that does not change anything. However, there is another thread by Trekson, where he has re-invented the Genesis account to accommodate his flights of fancy. And that is unacceptable.

If the early chapters of Genesis are 'literal', then they teach this lesson (among others). If they are not 'literal', they teach the same lessons. Ultimately, it makes no difference.

I am puzzled as to why you think every word spoken by God must be 'literal'. Didn't Jesus tell stories? Doesn't God use metaphors to describe Himself?
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That verse, Deut 8:3, really hit me. It describes what I have been through in spirit these last 12 year's. You just can't even explain what you've seen when a verse hits you that hard that you see you have lived the verse...in spirit.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
this is why I like the KJV of the bible. no one can just walk off the street, or go to school and say I know what God is saying here in these scripture.

nope it want work that way. one must spend time with the Lord, and LET him LEARN you concering his word.

I'm not aganist anyone getting an education, JUST don't put it before GOD, or anything else.

the KJV is coded in a Spiritual way, where only the HOLY GHOST, JESUS himself can unlock it for you the user. come any other way, and you get confusion, division, and angry.

I suggest one read the bible "WITH" the Holy Ghost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Harvest 1874

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2018
1,100
573
113
62
Tampa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God says that everything in Genesis should be taken LITERALLY, unless He shows us that something is a symbol or metaphor (e.g. Joseph's dreams). At the same time, there are numerous things which are literally true, yet can also be interpreted as types of Christ, e.g. Adam and Joseph.

Where precisely does "God" say that everything in Genesis should be taken LITERALLY?
Please provide the quote and verse.

(Note: I'm referring to the Genesis account concerning creation as to whether or not we are to take the "days" of creation as literal or not, not the whole book of Genesis.)
 
Last edited:

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Genesis is a reality that has metaphors. children and pregnancy are very, very real.

Life and death are real. so to me Genesis is very real, and need the power of the wisdom of God to understand it.
 

Vince

Active Member
Feb 20, 2019
814
98
43
54
Ft Worth
Faith
Atheist
Country
United States
Andrew, asking God is not "crap" in a Christian's mind. Rather, each person's relationship with God (including asking Him questions) is the foundation of what it is to be a Christian. We short-sighted mortals could argue all life long about who's interpretation is correct (to your question and many others), but it's fruitless. Truth does not come from us short-sighted mortals and us arguing only gets to endless "he-say-she-said" stupidity. To truly know Truth, one must go to the source of all Truth: God.

Then my question is why do Christians disagree on this issue? If God can be asked a question like this then why is he not consistent with his answer? In my reading of the bible, Jesus indicated in many places that Genesis was literal, why would any Christian go against what Jesus thought?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then my question is why do Christians disagree on this issue? If God can be asked a question like this then why is he not consistent with his answer? In my reading of the bible, Jesus indicated in many places that Genesis was literal, why would any Christian go against what Jesus thought?
It is not God that is inconsistent, but men. People who don't know Him at all cannot understand. People who do know Him in most cases know Him only in a measure so their answer depends upon that measure. When all of us have attained to [if we do] the "face to face" vision at all times as cited by the Apostle Paul in I Cor 13:12 then all of us will always agree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe22 and 101G

Vince

Active Member
Feb 20, 2019
814
98
43
54
Ft Worth
Faith
Atheist
Country
United States
It is not God that is inconsistent, but men. People who don't know Him at all cannot understand. People who do know Him in most cases know Him only in a measure so their answer depends upon that measure. When all of us have attained to [if we do] the "face to face" vision at all times as cited by the Apostle Paul in I Cor 13:12 then all of us will always agree.

This seems like a simple question. God should be able to communicate this to Christians pretty easy. It is a yes or no question. I thought God was not the author of confusion. In the end if he did communicate it correctly and people misinterpret what he said then God is still culpable for the confusion in my opinion.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This seems like a simple question. God should be able to communicate this to Christians pretty easy. It is a yes or no question. I thought God was not the author of confusion. In the end if he did communicate it correctly and people misinterpret what he said then God is still culpable for the confusion in my opinion.
You do not understand, but presume that all Christians do understand Him completely. They do not because He is God and they are not. A person can grow closer to God and as he approaches his understanding will improve, but anywhere along the way a person may walk in error and may stumble.
How knowledgeable is anyone with regard to God? How surefooted is any person who strives to walk on the highway of holiness toward God?


If God is what we believe Him to be, he is never confused. Your lack of any understanding or my lack of complete understanding does not mean a thing because neither of us know the reality of Him. I know it better than you, I believe, but I also still am seeing as through a glass darkly. That means I have at least a limited vision while you completely blind.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe22

Vince

Active Member
Feb 20, 2019
814
98
43
54
Ft Worth
Faith
Atheist
Country
United States
You do not understand, but presume that all Christians do understand Him completely. They do not because He is God and they are not. A person can grow closer to God and as he approaches his understanding will improve, but anywhere along the way a person may walk in error and may stumble.
How knowledgeable is anyone with regard to God? How surefooted in any person who strives to walk on the highway of holiness toward God?


if God is what we believe Him to be, he is never confused. Your lack any understanding or my lack of complete understanding does not mean a thing because neither of us know the reality of Him. I know it better than you, I believe, but I also still am seeing as through a glass darkly. That means I have at least a limited vision while you completely blind.

If this is true how can you know how to be saved? Since you cannot understand what god says on a simple matter of interpretation? How do even know that I am lost?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If this is true how can you know how to be saved? Since you cannot understand what god says on a simple matter of interpretation? How do even know that I am lost?
I did not say that you are lost. It is not given to me to know that even though I may have an opinion.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then how do you know you are saved?
Saved? Yes, but not in the senses of those invested in OSAS [Once Saved Always Saved]. In my heart I believe there is faith in some things as well as knowledge of some things. In this moment I cannot describe precisely the dividing line between them. My knowledge is not in error, but some of my belief very likely is in error... that is I am wrong. Then comes this verse:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

This is John the Baptist speaking but his words should be ours. As the "He" increases in me the knowledge [changes from faith to God's knowledge] increases. As the "I" in me decreases the erroneous faith is corrected or removed altogether. This is the approach to the end on our faith:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." heb 12:2

When my faith has all been corrected by being removed or by becoming knowledge then I will finally be saved with no more backsliding, no more turning back. That is when and if...!
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then how do you know you are saved?
we know by the Holy spirit bearing witness to us we are .we have a know so salvation that ye may know
1 John 5:13

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” we accept this by faith spirit bears witness Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave L

Vince

Active Member
Feb 20, 2019
814
98
43
54
Ft Worth
Faith
Atheist
Country
United States
we know by the Holy spirit bearing witness to us we are .we have a know so salvation that ye may know
1 John 5:13

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” we accept this by faith spirit bears witness Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Ok, But not all Christians believe this either. Some say they have absolute proof that god exists and don;t have faith. Even one person here told me that.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok, But not all Christians believe this either. Some say they have absolute proof that god exists and don;t have faith. Even one person here told me that.
CANT HELP THAT IF YA CANT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES guess you should just hug a atheist

the word of God the Holy spirit uf ya aint got the spirit your lost
 

Vince

Active Member
Feb 20, 2019
814
98
43
54
Ft Worth
Faith
Atheist
Country
United States
CANT HELP THAT IF YA CANT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES guess you should just hug a atheist

the word of God the Holy spirit uf ya aint got the spirit your lost
The bible says that I cannot understand because I am not a spiritual person. So let me get this straight.

The bible says how to be saved.
I need to have the holy spirit to understand what the bible says on salvation.
I can only get the holy spirit if I am saved.

Ok.