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Featured When to look for the rapture of the church

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by rockytopva, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously?

    I'm sorry...but its late, and your disjointed sentences are just too hard to make much sense of. We? This or that? Not We? Not at all? See how that sort of jumps. Maybe you can run it all together as you're answering in your head, but for me, reading it on a page...it just comes out jerky and confused...so...sorry...but I don't understand, so thats why I'm not answering.
     
  2. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how you look at it. I actually agree that Israel was in sight for this prophecy...and so would Paul. However, how Israel saw itself and expected it's future to unfold...and how many people now see Israel and expect Israels future to unfold, is not what we see happening in the NT and with the NC.
    Paul painstakingly shows in the NT how 'true Israel'...Abrahams true children of promise, were never "all" Israel. There were always a small, 'elect' group within 'National' Israel. When the NC promises were made to Israel, it was made to true Israel, and true Israel recieved it...the elect....which most certainly were Jewish people. And yes, Gentile believers were 'grafted in' to this group, welcomed into this NC.
    The problem was, the expectation back then was if you were a Jew, you were "in". God gave the Law of Moses to every person with Jewish blood, so they thought that this NC would apply to every person who could claim 'sonship' from Abraham. Like now, many people think that the Jewish nation is special because they are God's chosen people. The problem with that is that is that was never how God defined his 'children of promise'. Paul tells us in Romans 9-11 that for the sake of the 'children of promise'...the Patriarchs, that he will, in the end, save "all Israel"...so...I do believe he still holds a sovereign hand over the Nation of Israel, but it is not because they are special in their own right, chosen and holy. That, Paul tells us, is only the elect, the children of promise.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  3. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Bit like scientist say climate change is real?
     
  4. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    No problem.
    You and I are not on the same page.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    When to look for the rapture of the Church
    ^ OP

    First of all ~ Spot on, the rapture "applies to" members of Christ's Spiritual "Church".

    Some thoughts per the OP ~

    Jewish homeland established.

    Northern and Southern Established powers (Nations & leaders) against Jews and its homeland.

    Modern European nations gathering together in Union, excluding of Israel.

    Mans ability to exterminate itself.

    Increase frequency and magnitude of world disasters. And instant knowledge the world is informed of such disasters, perpetuating world fear.

    Gospel being preached world wide.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  6. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    I agree and they will be the 144,000, imho. Have you gotten around to reading the Prophecy vs. Apocalyptic post yet?
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    I am not ignoring His descent IN... the clouds. His descent is to the earth where Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveals His return to this earth.

    Your description of His return ends... in 1 Thessalonians 4, and omits Acts 1 and Zechariah 14. I've already been falsely accused of dumping Scripture in favor of some pet doctrine. Should that be said of you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    But do you agree the dissent into the clouds as a separate event from the second coming to the earth?
     
  9. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    I did not OMIT, what I was NOT speaking of.

    When I am speaking of the Lords Descent, TO the CLOUDS, I am not speaking of the Lords RETURN to the EARTH. <-- entirely two Different events.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    Well, I think you're barking up the wrong tree, I'm not new at studying Revelation, nor the whole Bible for that matter.

    The flow of Revelation is not always chronological. The Seals of Rev.6 are the signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. And the first part of the 6th Seal is not the time of Jesus' coming, although the rest of the 6th Seal is. The Rev.7:1 verse is declaring a new subject of those sealed with God's seal before the end, so of course the end of Rev.6 does NOT flow into Rev.7. And the later 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial is the same timing as the latter part of the 6th Seal, i.e., the day of Jesus' second coming and the cup of wrath.

    I'm not a Dispensationalist. And I don't interpret Revelation like 'paint by numbers'. It is written much like how the Old Testament Books of the prophets are written, changing between past, present, and future very quickly. Only by study in the whole Bible can one know how the order of all Revelation events flow.

    God's Word is written in simplicity. There is only one second coming, and that is the same time Jesus gathers His Church, after the the tribulation time He mentioned in His Olivet discourse.

    I've already explained that Matt.25 Scripture once. Revelation was given after... the Gospel of Matthew witness. In a study of electronics, would you build an AC circuit board of electrical components before you even understood basic electricity? Our Lord's Revelation is like 'the rest of the story'. It cannot be omitted when reading about the sheep and goats in Matt.25. We know there is a "thousand years" period prior to the Great White Throne Judgment and casting into the lake of fire.

    Well, you're wrong about that, as Acts 1 right before He ascended to The Father they asked Him if He was then going to restore the kingdom of Israel. They weren't talking about a spiritual kingdom with their question.

    I think the problem many have, is with building sand castles in their minds when speaking of Bible topics most likely because of how there are so many preachers out their in the pulpits that can preach The Gospel, but with the rest of the majority of The Bible they're simply wingin' it. The example they set trickles down to how their congregations study God's Word.

    There's that wingin' it type thinking I was speaking of. A whole lot of Bible Scripture has to be discarded to omit the fact that our Lord Jesus and His Apostles never... dumped the idea of a literal, physical kingdom here on earth. Some go way too far with Paul's Epistles in thinking he was discarding the idea of a literal physical kingdom on earth that our Lord Jesus will literally reign over upon David's literal throne on earth. Matthew 19:28 by our Lord Jesus reveals those who wingin' it have built a sand castle with thinking of the kingdom in a spiritual sense only.


    Not everything written in allegory in the OT prophets is meant spiritually. Allegory is simply a tool to describe literal things, like God's eternal Kingdom to come here on a cleansed earth. I'm well aware of the parallels between Revelation and the OT Books, especially with Genesis. There's a section of chapters in the Book of Isaiah that scholars call 'The Apocalypse of Isaiah' because it parallels the events in Revelation.
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    I keep hearing that 'not of this world' misinterpreted. It simply means His future physical Kingdom to come on earth is not of this present world time. There are actually 3 world ages taught in God's Word, in 2 Peter 3. We are still in the second one. God's eternal Kingdom is the third one to come, which begins when Jesus returns to take reign over all nations with "a rod of iron" like Revelation says. This present world will be destroyed by fire according to Peter. This is what our Lord Jesus and His Apostles revealed.

    Per Rev.20, when Jesus returns, His saints that remained faithful will reign over the nations with Him, for a "thousand years". The end will happen right after the 1,000 years, and that is when Satan is destroyed, and the GWT Judgment happens with death and the wicked cast into the lake of fire. All one need do is open up their Bible to Revelation 20 and read to understand that.

    With that view, it would mean to discard the OT histories of the Canaanite peoples that crept in among Israel, and even the Kenite foreigners having becomes scribes in Israel by the time of Jesus' 1st coming. Even some of the high priests in Israel's history were not born of Israel (per Jewish historian Josephus). So no, the "synagogue of Satan" isn't about true Jews at all, meaning bloodline Israel. It's about foreigners who took the religion and ancestry of Judah, which is why the last verse of Zech.14 says in that future time after Jesus' coming there will be no more the Canaanite in the house of God. The children of darkness is who the "synagogue of Satan" represents, for they are even against bloodline Judah! Or have you forgotten about the crept in unawares of Jude 1, the tares of Matt.13?


    Not if you read Revelation 20. And it was given after... that Matt.25 example of the sheep and goats.
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    The phrase "this mortal" is pointing to the soul. That's what is inside the flesh body. It continues after flesh death per Matt.10:28. How is it you are not aware that it is still mortal until one accepts Jesus as their Savior? and that those who's soul is still mortal when Jesus comes are still not destroyed yet? (like those required to come up to Jerusalem from year to year to worship the King, The LORD of hosts? (Zech.14).

    Surely you are not thinking of old Jewish fables like the soul requiring a flesh body just to manifest. Psalms 37 reveals the wicked will perish. Rev.20 with death and hell thrown into the "lake of fire" reveals those things 'destroyed'. So if the wicked are also cast into that "lake of fire" like it says.... So no, I do not believe the actual burning in fire like a piece of bacon forever; I believe it means they are gone everlasting. I actually see the wicked choosing... to perish, because if they can't be their own gods, they don't want to worship The True GOD, and they'd rather perish. God doesn't wish for any to perish, but that all come to repent, like Peter said. That is also why it was Paul's hope that there will be both a resurrection of the just, and the unjust (meaning he wanted the wicked to have opportunity to know the Truth and repent. Not all will be able to hear The Gospel during this present world time.)

    Ps 37:9-10
    9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
    10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

    KJV

    Ps 37:20
    20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
    KJV



    I don't see the "lake of fire" event yet until after Jesus reigns with His elect on earth for the "thousand years" of Rev.20, as written. I choose not to ascribe that chapter to men's philosophy.

    The division of His sheep from the goats is simply a dividing of God's children apart from the children of darkness when He comes. It is the end of this 'present' world, but not God's eternity yet.

    It's wishful thinking to believe that Paul was only talking about the Church when speaking of God's order for this world and the world to come. It's even a bit conceited to think that way, especially since our Lord Jesus revealed a "resurrection of damnation" for the wicked dead per John 5:28-29.
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    Nothing against what I've said so far. There was a standing temple in Jerusalem when Jesus said that.




    How is that in red not... what I've been saying? The true spiritual temple CANNOT be corrupted by any man. But a physical temple can!
     
  14. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    That's not necessarily a bad thing! You know...the whole 'someone's an arm, another person's a leg' thing. I suppose we have to trust that God has made us how and who we are. :)
     
  15. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Ha...sorry, no! I hope to this afternoon. How do people find the time to post so much here, I wonder? Maybe I'm just lousy at time management....
     
  16. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Notwithstanding ADAM, I am confidant God made each human in the womb "good", and once born each human is "born" in SIN.

    And Gods desire is that ALL will Believe IN Him, and ALL "Will Believe", but ALL will NOT be restored to Good and Reconcilled unto God.

    Few will be raised IN Glory.
    Many will be raised IN Damnation.

    It is Gods Desire ALL IN BELIEF; come to the SAME "Understanding"...
    "Gods Understanding" ...
    "not mans understanding".

    God has a PLAN "for" GREAT DESTRUCTION / GREAT SEPARATION "FROM" God "of" CORRUPTION;
    Corrupt Heavens
    Corrupt Celestial bodies
    Corrupt Earth
    Corrupt Terrestrial bodies

    If you believe YOU ARE (divided) ie; Saved and Born Again, YOU simply need to study the Word of God, Whereby, Thee Lord God, (Separates) YOUR, (saved soul and born again spirit) from all things to BE Destroyed/Separated "from" God;
    Corrupt heavens
    Corrupt celestial bodies
    Corrupt earth
    Corrupt terrestrial bodies

    Tribulation IS about a humans daily trials and hardships BECAUSE the Divided SAVED occupy this earth WITH, corrupt (terrestrial) men, and corrupt (celestial) bodies.

    Gods "GREAT" Tribulation IS about GODS intervention to SEPARATE those DIVIDED "with" God; "away from" those "without God".

    Thee Lord God has Already "prepared" me,
    to be in a PLACE, He has Already "prepared" for me to BE,
    BEFORE the DAY,
    The Lord God Begins His Great Tribulation;
    Upon;
    The corrupt earth
    The corrupt terrestrial bodies
    The corrupt heavens
    The corrupt celestial bodies

    And THAT PLACE is the CLOUDS,
    Below the heavens,
    Above the earth,
    WITH HIM and His protective supreme Power.

    You simply need to Discover where you will be and why. Because you seem to be without understanding where you will be and why.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    There's no questioning that there is a spiritual temple metaphor presented in New Testament Scripture. But there also is direct revelation about a literal physical sanctuary for the future also, just more in the Old Testament Books.

    Dan 8:13-14
    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
    14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
    KJV

    John 14:2
    2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    KJV


    The "Father's house" is what the sanctuary of Ezekiel is describing:

    Ezek 47:1
    47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
    KJV


    Ezek 47:9-12
    9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

    10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
    11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
    12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

    KJV

    Ezekiel 47:12 is pointing directly to the Tree of Life described in Revelation:

    Rev 22:1-2
    22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
    KJV


    That is that same event of the many trees on either side of the Ezekiel river, bearing its fruits each month that will not be consumed, and its leaves are for medicine. That river flowing out of the sanctuary in Ezekiel 47 is this same "river of water of life" here in Revelation 22.

    In Ezekiel 47, we are given a location on earth where that River will flow:

    Ezek 47:7-10
    7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
    8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

    9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
    10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

    KJV

    If the Ezekiel river and Father's house are just spiritual metaphors, then so is our Lord Jesus' promise to prepare a place for us in His Father's house per John 14, and also that River in Revelation 22 would not be real either but only a fanciful whim, and likewise with the River in Genesis 2 flowing out of God's Garden of Eden:

    Gen 2:10-14
    10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

    11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
    12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
    13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
    14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
    KJV


    The two rivers of Hiddekel (Tigris) and Euphrates we still know their locations upon the earth today. That is definite evidence this River flowing out of God's Eden is real, and not some fictitious myth. Likewise with the River of Revelation 22, and also the River of Ezekiel 47 that will flow out of The Father's House, also called a "sanctuary" there.

    The following is where Apostle Paul quoted from about God shaking this earth once more in final, and setting up His Kingdom to come on earth. Notice Haggai 2:7 speaks of The Father's "house", which is that same "Father's house" of John 14 and Ezekiel 40 thru 47:

    Hag 2:6-7
    6 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
    7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

    KJV

    Heb 12:25-28
    25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
    26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, 'Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.'
    27 And this word,' Yet once more', signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
    KJV


    So there's Scripture evidence of our Lord Jesus coming to reign on earth involving a Millennial sanctuary with God's River being established upon the earth... again! Not only that, but Jesus' promise exists per The New Covenant involving His preparing a place (abode in the Greek) for His elect in His Father's house!
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    The Scripture evidence for a future sanctuary existing for Christ's future reign with His elect, what He called "My Father's house" in John 14, shouldn't be doubted as being a literal structure on earth, even though more of the details for it are given in the Old Testament Book of Ezekiel. Same goes for God's River returning that was once upon this earth.

    But there are certain men crept in that play upon Biblically ignorant minds, teaching that these things written in God's Word are but myths, mystic spiritualizations, and they instead seek to change what The Father and His Son are going to establish upon this earth and instead replace it with their dreamed up castles in the sand organizations that on the day of Christ's return will perish like the wind. Many brethren in a lot of today's Churches don't realize how they're being setup for the coming one-world religion and one-world government under the Antichrist. For that to be successful they have... to downplay the Scripture evidence I gave in my previous post about the future Millennial sanctuary ("house") our Lord Jesus and His elect will reign over all nations from when He returns.


    No false one can sit in the spiritual temple that Apostle Paul described. Like I said, for anyone being able to do that, whether a pope, a king, or a president, it would mean the very 'foundation' of Christ's Salvation, which is what the spiritual temple idea represents, would fall to the ground! That theory you present of the true spiritual temple being able to be corrupted simply is a white-washed wall that when the rains come it falls to the ground. Christ's Salvation is True, and that is what the spiritual temple represents, for ONLY those worthy that remain in Jesus Christ will be a part of it joined with Jesus and His Apostles and prophets.


    Those little prep false statements don't really work. Just because you're Biblically ignorant of OT and NT Scripture like what I presented in my previous post doesn't mean you can just assign it all as 'making it say whatever one wants'. That's a very Biblically illiterate assumption. It has to be proven. The Biblical fact is, both the idea of a literal future sanctuary on earth is presented, and the idea of a spiritual temple with our Lord Jesus, His Apostles, and prophets as the spiritual foundation, also exists in Scripture. Yet the spiritual foundation of Apostle Paul's Epistles never denies the Scriptures I showed about The Father's house our Lord Jesus mentioned, and that OT Scriptures reveals in more detail for the future.

    Thus the real difference between those like you and me, is that you've been taught to scrap any Scripture evidence pointing to the future literal sanctuary to be established on earth, while I recognize Scripture about it being established in the future beginning our Lord Jesus' return, and that being the idea of the foundation that Apostle Paul was speaking of... spiritually. Now in God's future eternity, the new heavens and a new earth which He will establish after... Jesus reigns with His elect over the nations for a thousand years, in that time, there will be no more sanctuary or temple (Rev.21:22). But notice there even, the 12 tribes of Israel will still exist on earth, as also the new Jerusalem and its walls and 12 gates. Christ's Apostles will rule sitting upon 12 thrones like He promised them also.

    Therefore, this pretty well disproves men's suppositions of Christ's kingdom being about just some mystical state inside our minds. Christ's Salvation per God's Word will manifest as a literal Kingdom in the future at His return. His name is "King of kings, and Lord of lords", meaning He will rule in His Kingdom over the nations with a rod of iron, as He was promised (Ps.2, Rev.2).

    More on the mystical state idea of trying to spiritualize Christ's future Kingdom in the world to come. When Apostle Paul used the idea of a spiritual temple to represent Christ's Salvation, it was because during THIS world, we only have the 'hope' and His 'promise' of the Kingdom to come. It is NOT... to be established in the outward literal sense on earth until He returns. That is why Paul used such figure of speech when speaking of a spiritual temple idea. The danger with loosing focus on that point is with listening to crept in unawares who practice mysticism...

    Mysticism is a 'practice', an attempt to use spiritual exercises to awaken one's psychic, hidden things of the spirit. Those have taken what our Lord Jesus said in Luke 17 about the kingdom of God being 'within you', and turned it into some idea of ascetic mystic occult practice. The occult secret fraternities of initiation even teach their students that our Lord Jesus Himself was one of them, and that He was so attuned... to the Cosmic, that He had the Kingdom inside Himself! They also say that Buddha, Zoroaster, etc., all did the same thing! In reality, those occultists follow the Devil himself who wants to trick people into denying that Jesus is GOD The Son, and instead think that our Lord Jesus was only just a prophet like Moses, etc., and not at all God in the flesh (Immanuel).
     
  19. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    Well, I presented the Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 evidence to you in my post #403, so what you say here is meaningless, since you failed to address the Scripture I posted in reply already.
     
  20. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    You "know" there is 1000 years prior to the Great White Throne Judgement how? You've admitted previously that Revelation is not all chronological. You say above that there is only one coming of Christ. Matt 25 says that "when he comes, then" he will sit on his throne and judge. About the only argument left to you is that the jugdements for the 'living' and the 'dead' are at different times...thus Matt 25 judgement and the GWT judgement are different. Except then we read this verse:

    I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: -2 Timothy 4:1

    This verse puts the judgement of living and dead AT the appearance of Christ. So...that doesn't give a lot of wiggle room in my opinion.

    Ah...now your not getting it. Acts 1 is before Pentecost. That's before the Spirit descended and they understood the real nature of Christ's Kingdom. So...at Acts 1 they were still expecting, like all the other Jews, that when Messiah came, it would be as this great political leader who would expell the Romans and set up this earthly kingdom and sit on David's throne. Jesus told them his Kingdom was not of this earth. And, as I pointed out, even at his ascention, the Disciples still didn't understand. But, come Pentecost...which is Acts 2, by the way, we never hear them talking about an earthly kingdom again, or Christ coming to sit on Davids throne. Instead, they throw all their energies into the great commission....growing the kingdom that way. Paul, who tells us was taught all his doctrine from Christ himself, teaches us that Christ is even now ruling and reigning...which fits perfectly with "my kingdom is not of this earth". It also fits perfectly with 1 Cor 15, which tells us that when he returns, it will be because he has put every power and authority under his feet, and on his return, the last enemy, death, will also be defeated.


    They never dumped the idea? How would you know, if they never spoke of it? They did, however, speak of Christ ruling and reigning now. We do have scripture telling us, clearly, that Christ says his kingdom is "not of this world"...sort of clear, yeah? Wouldn't that mean, then, that's its people like you who are ignoring or wiggling around scriptures to make your thoughts and doctrines fit? Because...what else do you do with these verses? Why is Christ ruling now? Over what? What is the purpose of his ruling now? What Kingdom is he ruling over, and which kingdom is it that he delievers over to the Father at his return, when he's conquered all powers and enemies?
     
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