When will God gather Israel?

[Taken]

So before we saw that 144,000 I notice this..
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
So all islands moved away (Australia etc) and the heavens folded up and were no more. I don't think one could rationally suggest that happened before or in the tribulation. In other places we see that all mountains also were leveled, so where would that 'mount zion' be where the witnesses were 'teaching'? You see when Jesus stands on that mount in Israel it is after He returns. Why would we need witnesses warning and preaching after He already returned?

Depends on who “we” are.
I don’t expect to be on earth Looking up when Jesus returns, but rather WITH Him.
Revelations is a deep study, that deals with all people and angels.
Some of it is telling what is happening both in heaven and on earth, some is of particular persons and not others.

The bible says He destroys all their enemies when they are saved, not destroys THEM! If they were destroyed they would not be gathered back to that land.

Satan is given power to rule for a short time.
Satan is never “destroyed”, but rather removed.
No body can be SAVED, less it first dies.
Satan killing thousands who turn to belief in Jesus, is men not resisting, willing to Bodily die, rather than side with Satan.

We are saved now actually. We have received Salvation already here. (except the body, which obviously is later)

Again, depends on who “we” are. Crucified (bodily dead) with Jesus...
YES, have received Salvation.

Except that they witness to the whole world also.

Probably is a mix of Jew and Gentile...
However a single holy angel preaches the Gospel to the whole world, just before the vials are poured out.
Sort of a last call.

That makes no sense if you say they died already.

Scripture teaches there were virgins, sort of a first fruits, and redeemed, and we find their are sealed. Again, a bodily death occurs before Salvation is given, thus I believe death, did apply to them...and resurrected, since they appear to the Tribes.

Mt Zion is outside of Jerusalem. Don’t know off hand the elevation, highly doubt it is grand like Swiss Alps? Just speculation, have not particularly studied that.

 

[dad]

Depends on who “we” are.
I don’t expect to be on earth Looking up when Jesus returns, but rather WITH Him.

Of course we who were raptured will be with Jesus at the end of the tribulation. So why would witnesses needed to witness in that last time on earth (144,000) not be on earth in that time? What does us being Raptured before the tribulation have to do with the 144,000 witnesses?

Revelations is a deep study, that deals with all people and angels.
Some of it is telling what is happening both in heaven and on earth, some is of particular persons and not others.

It is also a clear book. Not locked up or sealed like Daniel was.

Satan is given power to rule for a short time.
Satan is never “destroyed”, but rather removed.

So? How does that relate to anything talked about here? That has what to do with the endtime 144,000 witnesses?

No body can be SAVED, less it first dies.

Yes, I am saved and alive. Our bodies will be eternal one day also. You seem to be saying the Jews from the tribes witnessing in the tribulation are dead because they are saved?

Satan killing thousands who turn to belief in Jesus, is men not resisting, willing to Bodily die, rather than side with Satan.

Great, so what does people who are saints in that tribulation period who are willing to be martyrs have to do with the 144,000?

Again, depends on who “we” are. Crucified (bodily dead) with Jesus...
YES, have received Salvation.

Paul was not dead when he said these things. Nor were the believers he wrote to! To mortify the deeds of the flesh does not mean to die!

Probably is a mix of Jew and Gentile...
However a single holy angel preaches the Gospel to the whole world, just before the vials are poured out.
Sort of a last call.

Yes, as well as the 2 witnesses and the 144,000 etc. One would think that the millions of believers being beheaded or killed other ways also would get some sort of witness in!

Scripture teaches there were virgins, sort of a first fruits, and redeemed, and we find their are sealed.

Not defiled with women I think refers to spiritual adultery, not so much chastity!?

Again, a bodily death occurs before Salvation is given,

No

thus I believe death, did apply to them...and resurrected, since they appear to the Tribes.

That is confused and baseless dogma

Mt Zion is outside of Jerusalem. Don’t know off hand the elevation, highly doubt it is grand like Swiss Alps? Just speculation, have not particularly studied that.

OK. Unless you have some clear point on that matter I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Taken]

Of course we who were raptured will be with Jesus at the end of the tribulation. So why would witnesses needed to witness in that last time on earth (144,000) not be on earth in that time? What does us being Raptured before the tribulation have to do with the 144,000 witnesses?
It is also a clear book. Not locked up or sealed like Daniel was.


So? How does that relate to anything talked about here? That has what to do with the endtime 144,000 witnesses?

Yes, I am saved and alive. Our bodies will be eternal one day also. You seem to be saying the Jews from the tribes witnessing in the tribulation are dead because they are saved?
Great, so what does people who are saints in that tribulation period who are willing to be martyrs have to do with the 144,000?


Paul was not dead when he said these things. Nor were the believers he wrote to! To mortify the deeds of the flesh does not mean to die!
Yes, as well as the 2 witnesses and the 144,000 etc. One would think that the millions of believers being beheaded or killed other ways also would get some sort of witness in!

Not defiled with women I think refers to spiritual adultery, not so much chastity!?

No
That is confused and baseless dogma


OK. Unless you have some clear point on that matter I guess it doesn't matter.

I think the confusion is ...
I said a body must die before Receiving Salvation.
You said no.
Yet, you also said you ARE saved.
Did you crucify your body with Jesus, at the time you Became Saved?
Did God Save your body, Before it was crucified or after?
Is crucifixion of your body a bodily death?
~ Let’s settle this point, before continuing to the 144,000.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not really. Israel will be invaded in the end. That does not mean anointed people are invaded, but that the area and nation of Israel will be attacked and many killed. So it depends on the context. If we are talking spiritually and 'true' Israel, that is different. And God has not gathered them yet, that happens when He returns and saves them as a nation. The remnant. They have gathered themselves as far as I can tell, but this thread is for people to make a case if they say God gathered them already. You have not done that. So you do not get to say 'they have been gathered'. A better way to say that might be something like 'they have gathered, and been allowed to gather by God, who knew they would in the end'
Israel are not the chosen people of God today. Only those who choose Jesus are chosen. In the end all Israel will choose Jesus. Not in 1948.
They haven't. They are no more redeemed than anyone else until they accept the Redeemer. That will happen as a nation in the end. Not in 1948.

We agree Israel will be attacked, gog of magog will launch the final assult on God's people which will usher in the return of Jesus. Time will tell if either one of us is correct Dad.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Disagree, that has already happened.
IF it had, that would be utterly UNJUST, excluding millions of people for opportunity to be part of the first resurrection, Factually, because millions have not even yet be “naturally” born.



Sounds like you have meshed multiple teaching.
* Transforming the WHOLE of man, body, soul, spirit, has been the GOAL from the beginning.
YET, the Transforming, was taught, promised and given IN STAGES...
Some men (particularly OT/ancient men), physically DIED, with the PROMISE, of WHOLE transformation.
Some men (particularly NT/historical man), physically DIED, with the the soul saving, and spirit quickening PROMISE fulfilled, and themselves waiting for the Rising up of their transformed body’s.

It is taking the WHOLE of a man, body, soul, spirit; understanding the life source of each; body, soul, spirit; and Learning HOW and WHEN God Transforms each part of the WHOLE....body, soul, spirit...of individual men, According to Gods ORDER and WAY.

The ORDER and WAY that affects a mans; body, soul, spirit...
ALL exclusively hangs on...WHAT applies to the Word of God; ie JESUS, at an given time....BECAUSE He is exclusively FIRST in all things.
AND, men being responsible for KNOWLEDGE, WHEN the knowledge IS revealed.
(For example...OT men were NOT revealed JESUS IN the FLESH...Knowledge not YET given them, so they were Not responsible for KNOWING and Acting on that Knowledge.)

If you do not follow the ORDER and WAY precisely...you end up mixing different prophecies together and getting a erroneous man’s carnal minded understanding.



That is also mixing. Rapture is an exclusive Calling UP of men, Already soul saved, spirit quickened, by, through, of. Christ Jesus...ie His Church. They not subject to Tribulation and Wrath that comes down from Heaven, upon the Earths inhabitants who ARE NOT Converted.
(And remember, there ARE many Believers, who ARE NOT Converted.)



End of days is a deep study, that requires Gods knowledge of His Order and Way from beginning to ending to grasp the full perspective.

Those of the first resurrection numbers less than 144k sir. They have been gathered since the first century, after Jesus' enthronement we believe the first resurrection happened, then those holy ones who die prior to his return will be resurrected instantly, and then the rest will meet him in the air upon his return. Rev 20:6: 1 Cor 15:52; 1 Thes 4:17

Of course no one observed this, so we could very well be in error. Time will have to reveal how it went down.

 

[Taken]

Those of the first resurrection numbers less than 144k sir.

The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.

They have been gathered since the first century, after Jesus' enthronement we believe the first resurrection happened, then those holy ones who die prior to his return will be resurrected instantly, and then the rest will meet him in the air upon his return. Rev 20:6: 1 Cor 15:52; 1 Thes 4:17

They were redeemed, Gathered, BEFORE, Jesus was revealed, SEEN on earth.

HOW was that possible, SINCE Jesus (the Word of God) had not YET died on the CROSS?
Because BEFORE man WAS CREATED ... WHAT occurred IN HEAVEN, Was THE “WORD OF GOD” was “KILLED’.
How? By Whom?
How...was TURNING the TRUTH of God into a LIE...
By Whom....a holy Angel, called Lucifer.
How...WHAT LIE, Killed Gods Truth?
Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Really? A created Angel, (Lucifer), Can rise ABOVE the Creator? Uh, no.
That is a LIE. That occurred WHILE the Earth was being Created, BEFORE manKIND was created.
Because the Word of God (ie JESUS, as we know, but OT men did not know, His Name)....was Killed...and
He is FIRST in all things.....even Death.
He was KILLED while the earth was being Established.
AND MAN born thereafter...COULD, CAN, and some WERE, Resurrected, LONG BEFORE...Jesus arrived on Earth, in the flesh, that men could see, and men SAW Him crucified.

OT men knew NOT...the name Jesus. Knew NOT...the Lamb of God.
Verification of Isaiah 14:
Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

SEE? Mysterious Elisha, Elijah, the the Witnesses at Jesus’ ascension,
The mysterious man who spoke to Saul, the mysterious men who visited Abraham, the mysterious men in Sodom, the mysterious men Two witnesses during Gods Tribulations, the 144,000 during Gods Tribulations....Particular Faithful men, already “redeemed” and had “further” Services to accomplish “on Earth”. FOR the Lord God

Of course no one observed this, so we could very well be in error. Time will have to reveal how it went down.

No matter. Freewill of individuals to hear, verify, Believe what THEY will.

Resurrections are not “new”. They have occurred throughout History of man.
The prophecy of the “FIRST” resurrection, (Rev.) is a mass resurrection, of a LAST resurrection of ALL Saved men. Thereafter the DOOR (so to speak) IS CLOSED. None others shall be saved.
* It’s a finality, of SEPARATING the DIVIDED WITH God from the DIVIDE WITHOUT God.

The FIRST (mass) resurrection, DOES NOT prevent God from Resurrecting MEN already WITH Him, being raised up, (BeFORE the “First & Last mass resurrection) and Serving God in Particular tasks/Services unto the Lord God...OR being raised up, to be Protected FROM Gods Wrath and Tribulations.

God RAISE UP, Noah, off the Face of the Earth, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations were Destroying the Earth. (Gen 7:4, 17, 18)
* Nothing new under the sun. What was shall be again. (Ecc 1:9)
God SHALL again Raise UP, off the Face of the Earth, those ALREADY SAVED, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations are Destroying the Earth.
(1 Thes 4:17)

Knowledge is given and verified IN Scripture.
Mans freewill option to Believe it, Trust it, or not.
* Salvation is PROMISED a man who BELIEVES on the Day of his Death.
* Salvation is GIVEN a Believing man on the Day of his Death.

* Some men give their life crucified with Jesus...and have Received Salvation....called, “are saved”.
* Some men wait to give their physical life...and THEN Receive Salvation....called, “shall be saved”.

OSAS...is the belief, the ONE required Death of Dying IN Belief IS Satisfied, and NEVER revoked....be that Death, crucified with Jesus, or a physical death....Such men ARE Sanctified (set apart) DIVIDED “unto” God...And when the SEPARATION of the Divided commences...the DIVIDED WITH God are Separated and Redeemed (claimed, taken, received into Gods Presence, and they shall THEN SEE God as His is.)
(1 John 3:2)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Those of the first resurrection numbers less than 144k sir.

The purpose of the 144,000 preaching IS to fulfill Gods Promise of Saving faithful ISRAEL.

The 144,000 are already Saved first fruits of ISRAEL.
The are sent to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ TO the 12 Tribes.

God Himself Established DIVISIONS...night/day, up/down, good/evil, Hebrews, Tribesmen/ Gentile, with/without.

Gods Divisions of Hebrews/Tribesmen were WITH God. The Gentiles were WITHOUT God.

It was the Hebrews/Tribesmen who were to BE THE Gentiles TEACHERS, of and about God.
The Hebrews/Tribesmen were few, were overpowered by Gentiles, acquiesced to the Gentiles Way, to KEEP their physical Lives.

A topsy, turvy, flip. And a long historical curse of sorts upon the Tribesmen....in slavery bondage, scattered, stripped of their lands, punishments, tribulations of men upon them....while God allowed it, because many rejected Trusting God.

Nothing new, Gentiles thirsted for knowledge about the Jewish God, broadly hung on the Word of God SENT to the “JEWS”, and Gentiles on the sidelines listening, believing, while the “Jews” broadly were rejecting, the idea that this JESUS preacher, without riches, without a kingdom, without an army, could possibly be THE MESSIAH, sent to SAVE the Jews. Unfathomable!

While Gentiles were Accepting and Jews were rejecting...WHAT?
Gentiles were TEACHING Jews? No.
It was NEVER Gods plan for Gentiles to TeACH the Jews.

Thus as the World as we know it, full of chaos, and greed, and corruption evolves....God is going to END those things...and must first fulfill his Promise to Save His Faithful People....ISRAEL.

Thus, the Two Witnesses, and the 144,000 to TEACH the Jews/ and all the Tribes...the Gospel of Jesus Christ.... from their OWN faithful Tribal TEACHERS.....(NOT Gentiles).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[dad]

I think the confusion is ...
I said a body must die before Receiving Salvation.
You said no.
Yet, you also said you ARE saved.
Did you crucify your body with Jesus, at the time you Became Saved?
Did God Save your body, Before it was crucified or after?
Is crucifixion of your body a bodily death?
~ Let’s settle this point, before continuing to the 144,000.

To be crucified with Christ does not mean to be nailed to crosses on a hill. We are saved by faith in Jesus. After that we should try to keep the old man/body down. Paul tried. Paul was saved before he died. We all are. No one in the tribulation or elsewhere must be killed to be saved. It is not by works. Our bodies get changed when we die. Not our salvation, that is forever.

 

[dad]

The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.



They were redeemed, Gathered, BEFORE, Jesus was revealed, SEEN on earth.

HOW was that possible, SINCE Jesus (the Word of God) had not YET died on the CROSS?
Because BEFORE man WAS CREATED ... WHAT occurred IN HEAVEN, Was THE “WORD OF GOD” was “KILLED’.
How? By Whom?
How...was TURNING the TRUTH of God into a LIE...
By Whom....a holy Angel, called Lucifer.
How...WHAT LIE, Killed Gods Truth?
Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Really? A created Angel, (Lucifer), Can rise ABOVE the Creator? Uh, no.
That is a LIE. That occurred WHILE the Earth was being Created, BEFORE manKIND was created.
Because the Word of God (ie JESUS, as we know, but OT men did not know, His Name)....was Killed...and
He is FIRST in all things.....even Death.
He was KILLED while the earth was being Established.
AND MAN born thereafter...COULD, CAN, and some WERE, Resurrected, LONG BEFORE...Jesus arrived on Earth, in the flesh, that men could see, and men SAW Him crucified.

OT men knew NOT...the name Jesus. Knew NOT...the Lamb of God.
Verification of Isaiah 14:
Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

SEE? Mysterious Elisha, Elijah, the the Witnesses at Jesus’ ascension,
The mysterious man who spoke to Saul, the mysterious men who visited Abraham, the mysterious men in Sodom, the mysterious men Two witnesses during Gods Tribulations, the 144,000 during Gods Tribulations....Particular Faithful men, already “redeemed” and had “further” Services to accomplish “on Earth”. FOR the Lord God



No matter. Freewill of individuals to hear, verify, Believe what THEY will.

Resurrections are not “new”. They have occurred throughout History of man.
The prophecy of the “FIRST” resurrection, (Rev.) is a mass resurrection, of a LAST resurrection of ALL Saved men. Thereafter the DOOR (so to speak) IS CLOSED. None others shall be saved.
* It’s a finality, of SEPARATING the DIVIDED WITH God from the DIVIDE WITHOUT God.

The FIRST (mass) resurrection, DOES NOT prevent God from Resurrecting MEN already WITH Him, being raised up, (BeFORE the “First & Last mass resurrection) and Serving God in Particular tasks/Services unto the Lord God...OR being raised up, to be Protected FROM Gods Wrath and Tribulations.

God RAISE UP, Noah, off the Face of the Earth, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations were Destroying the Earth. (Gen 7:4, 17, 18)
* Nothing new under the sun. What was shall be again. (Ecc 1:9)
God SHALL again Raise UP, off the Face of the Earth, those ALREADY SAVED, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations are Destroying the Earth.
(1 Thes 4:17)

Knowledge is given and verified IN Scripture.
Mans freewill option to Believe it, Trust it, or not.
* Salvation is PROMISED a man who BELIEVES on the Day of his Death.
* Salvation is GIVEN a Believing man on the Day of his Death.

* Some men give their life crucified with Jesus...and have Received Salvation....called, “are saved”.
* Some men wait to give their physical life...and THEN Receive Salvation....called, “shall be saved”.

OSAS...is the belief, the ONE required Death of Dying IN Belief IS Satisfied, and NEVER revoked....be that Death, crucified with Jesus, or a physical death....Such men ARE Sanctified (set apart) DIVIDED “unto” God...And when the SEPARATION of the Divided commences...the DIVIDED WITH God are Separated and Redeemed (claimed, taken, received into Gods Presence, and they shall THEN SEE God as His is.)
(1 John 3:2)

Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus made the way to salvation and actually is the way and salvation. WE choose that way or not. Our choice decides our redemption, He made the way to be redeemed and planned that before the world began. That in no way means we are destined to hell or heaven, it means He made the way for us to be able to be redeemed.

 

[dad]

Those of the first resurrection numbers less than 144k sir. .

Revelation 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

You thought you knew the rest of the dead on earth numbered less than 144,000 -- how?

 

[dad]

We agree Israel will be attacked, gog of magog will launch the final assult on God's people which will usher in the return of Jesus. Time will tell if either one of us is correct Dad.

It is interesting thinking about when Russia and company try to invade Israel and get wiped out by God. That is a separate battle than the battle of Armageddon at the very end of the tribulation.

I heard David Jeremiah talking about how the great supper of the Lord where the birds are called (if I understood him correctly) was when Russia invaded Israel and died in the area. It has been my conception that the supper of God is at Armageddon. Most people I have heard think that the Eze invasion is long before the very end of the tribulation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your words. For the record.

Glad to have them put on the record.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

OK.

Back home. My wife is recovered and home.

 

[Taken]

To be crucified with Christ does not mean to be nailed to crosses on a hill. We are saved by faith in Jesus. After that we should try to keep the old man/body down. Paul tried. Paul was saved before he died. We all are. No one in the tribulation or elsewhere must be killed to be saved. It is not by works. Our bodies get changed when we die. Not our salvation, that is forever.

Gods Order and Way...

Naturally Born IN sin, from a mans corrupt seed.
We are Given Faith from God, When we Hear Gods Word.
Our Faith is Increased the more we Hear.
Faith Stops being Given, IF one Stops Hearing.
IF we are Believing what we Hear, We are Doing the Works of God.
IF we Bodily Die, Believing, We have Served God.
If we have Served God, By Gods Grace, God Saves us.

Gods Blessing of Forgiveness...(of having had not believed)
Gods Gift of soul Saving....(restoring ones soul)
Gods Gift of His internal Spirit...(receiving Gods SEED, truth, wisdom, power with and in the man).
Gods Gift of mans spirit Quickening...(born again mans new spirit, via Gods SEED).
God Gift of Heart Circumcision...(mans new heart)

IF a man DOES His part...is natural born, hears, receives faith, believes, (works), continues believing, (Serves God), bodily dies...

God IS Faithful and SHALL SAVE that man. God shall forgive that mans having not believed, Give that man Faith, Give that man soul restoration, Gods Seed, Gods truth, Gods Wisdom, God be With that man, Gods Seed births a mans new spirit, a man heart circumcision, give that man a new heart with Gods truth, Gods wisdom.

You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with OT men, Gods People ISRAEL, REQUIRED a mans PHYSICAL Bodily Death...BEFORE they Received Salvation, Quickening.
(And ^ method Continues for ANY man, WHO does not...
Accept Gods Offering of Salvation By Crucifixion WITH Jesus.)


You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with NT men, VIA Christ Jesus, FOR ALL MEN, Via A NEW BETTER TESTAMENT, (Heb 7:22) was men could RECEIVE Gods Forgiveness, Gift of Salvation, Quickening, BEFORE a mans PHYSICAL DEATH, via, CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body.

THEY ARE Called ^...ARE dead, ARE Washed, ARE Forgiven, ARE Covered, ARE Sanctified, ARE Set apart, ARE Kept, ARE Saved, ARE Justified, HAVE Overcome, ARE a new creature, ARE living “IN” Christ Jesus’ Risen Body, until the DAY, (a secret day), God RAISES UP their BODY IN Glory.
^ THEIR NEW “status”, IS VIA Gods Spiritual Works, UNSEEN to the EYES of men. Their NEW “status” IS wholly, whole and holy unto the Lord God Almighty

That new “status” is even unseen to the man WHO IS SAVED, WHOSE natural Flesh still walks about....HOWEVER the man WHO IS Saved, SHOULD KNOW, It was God Himself WHO OFFERED Salvation to men ALIVE in their FLESH, IF BY their TRUE Confession In Their Heart they GAVE their bodily Life, crucified WITH Jesus.

You claim to BE SAVED, YET, also seem to NOT BELIEVE, God Himself ALREADY Accepted your BODY AS DEAD, crucified with Christ Jesus.

Disagree, that God is Dependent on SEEING a physically DEAD BODY, before He Gives that man His Gift of Salvation....
But INSTEAD that Gods Spirit IN that man KEEPS that mans SALVATION by Gods Power, and that from there Forward, FOREVER God is WITH that man.

 

[Taken]

Jesus made the way to salvation and actually is the way and salvation. WE choose that way or not. Our choice decides our redemption, He made the way

Gods Order and Way...

Naturally Born IN sin, from a mans corrupt seed.
We are Given Faith from God, When we Hear Gods Word.
Our Faith is Increased the more we Hear.
Faith Stops being Given, IF one Stops Hearing.
IF we are Believing what we Hear, We are Doing the Works of God.
IF we Bodily Die, Believing, We have Served God.
If we have Served God, By Gods Grace, God Saves us.

Gods Blessing of Forgiveness...(of having had not believed)
Gods Gift of soul Saving....(restoring ones soul)
Gods Gift of His internal Spirit...(receiving Gods SEED, truth, wisdom, power with and in the man).
Gods Gift of mans spirit Quickening...(born again mans new spirit, via Gods SEED).
God Gift of Heart Circumcision...(mans new heart)

IF a man DOES His part...is natural born, hears, receives faith, believes, (works), continues believing, (Serves God), bodily dies...

God IS Faithful and SHALL SAVE that man. God shall forgive that mans having not believed, Give that man Faith, Give that man soul restoration, Gods Seed, Gods truth, Gods Wisdom, God be With that man, Gods Seed births a mans new spirit, a man heart circumcision, give that man a new heart with Gods truth, Gods wisdom.

You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with OT men, Gods People ISRAEL, REQUIRED a mans PHYSICAL Bodily Death...BEFORE they Received Salvation, Quickening.
(And ^ method Continues for ANY man, WHO does not...
Accept Gods Offering of Salvation By Crucifixion WITH Jesus.)


You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with NT men, VIA Christ Jesus, FOR ALL MEN, Via A NEW BETTER TESTAMENT, (Heb 7:22) was men could RECEIVE Gods Forgiveness, Gift of Salvation, Quickening, BEFORE a mans PHYSICAL DEATH, via, CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body.

THEY ARE Called ^...ARE dead, ARE Washed, ARE Forgiven, ARE Covered, ARE Sanctified, ARE Set apart, ARE Kept, ARE Saved, ARE Justified, HAVE Overcome, ARE a new creature, ARE living “IN” Christ Jesus’ Risen Body, until the DAY, (a secret day), God RAISES UP their BODY IN Glory.
^ THEIR NEW “status”, IS VIA Gods Spiritual Works, UNSEEN to the EYES of men. Their NEW “status” IS wholly, whole and holy unto the Lord God Almighty

That new “status” is even unseen to the man WHO IS SAVED, WHOSE natural Flesh still walks about....HOWEVER the man WHO IS Saved, SHOULD KNOW, It was God Himself WHO OFFERED Salvation to men ALIVE in their FLESH, IF BY their TRUE Confession In Their Heart they GAVE their bodily Life, crucified WITH Jesus.

You claim to BE SAVED, YET, also seem to NOT BELIEVE, God Himself ALREADY Accepted your BODY AS DEAD, crucified with Christ Jesus.

Disagree, that God is Dependent on SEEING a physically DEAD BODY, before He Gives that man His Gift of Salvation....
But INSTEAD that Gods Spirit IN that man KEEPS that mans SALVATION by Gods Power, and that from there Forward, FOREVER God is WITH that man.

to be redeemed and planned that before the world began. That in no way means we are destined to hell or heaven, it means He made the way for us to be able to be redeemed.

Disagree.
Received Salvation, IS an assurance of FOREVER WITH God.
Not Receiving Salvation, IS an assurance of FOREVER WITHOUT God.

Redeemed applies TO THE SAVED.

It is a Saved man, who WAITS TO SEE, what his body shall look like, what Gods Kingdom shall look like, what God looks like..etc.

God isn’t “waiting” to SEE.
What God SAYS, IS already Done, the moment He Declares it.
When God Declares a man FORGIVEN, SAVED, SANCTIFIED, etc.
God isn’t Waiting to SEE “IF” that will happen.
God isn’t Waiting to SEE “IF” a man will Be TRUE to His Word.

IF you ARE SAVED and QUICKENED....a NEW BIRTH can ONLY occur AFTER the OLD has DIED.

Paul stated to men who DIDN’T get that...

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[dad]

Back home. My wife is recovered and home.

Halelujah

 

[dad]

Disagree.
Received Salvation, IS an assurance of FOREVER WITH God.

And we have that blessed assurance. Right now

Redeemed applies TO THE SAVED.

Great, so what has that to do with the endtime witnesses?

It is a Saved man, who WAITS TO SEE, what his body shall look like, what Gods Kingdom shall look like, what God looks like..etc.

Waiting does not mean we are not saved in the meantime.

God isn’t “waiting” to SEE.
What God SAYS, IS already Done, the moment He Declares it.

He has declared we will have eternal life if we believe in Him. That does not mean we are not alive.

When God Declares a man FORGIVEN, SAVED, SANCTIFIED, etc.
God isn’t Waiting to SEE “IF” that will happen.

Neither are we! He said it will and does.

IF you ARE SAVED and QUICKENED....a NEW BIRTH can ONLY occur AFTER the OLD has DIED.

To be clear you were talking about physical bodies of the 144,000. They do not need to die any more than any other preacher to be saved or to witness. Period.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Saved people eventually also get new eternal bodies...so?

 

[dad]

Gods Order and Way...

Naturally Born IN sin, from a mans corrupt seed.
We are Given Faith from God, When we Hear Gods Word.
Our Faith is Increased the more we Hear.
Faith Stops being Given, IF one Stops Hearing.
IF we are Believing what we Hear, We are Doing the Works of God.
IF we Bodily Die, Believing, We have Served God.
If we have Served God, By Gods Grace, God Saves us.

Gods Blessing of Forgiveness...(of having had not believed)
Gods Gift of soul Saving....(restoring ones soul)
Gods Gift of His internal Spirit...(receiving Gods SEED, truth, wisdom, power with and in the man).
Gods Gift of mans spirit Quickening...(born again mans new spirit, via Gods SEED).
God Gift of Heart Circumcision...(mans new heart)

IF a man DOES His part...is natural born, hears, receives faith, believes, (works), continues believing, (Serves God), bodily dies...

God IS Faithful and SHALL SAVE that man. God shall forgive that mans having not believed, Give that man Faith, Give that man soul restoration, Gods Seed, Gods truth, Gods Wisdom, God be With that man, Gods Seed births a mans new spirit, a man heart circumcision, give that man a new heart with Gods truth, Gods wisdom.

You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with OT men, Gods People ISRAEL, REQUIRED a mans PHYSICAL Bodily Death...BEFORE they Received Salvation, Quickening.
(And ^ method Continues for ANY man, WHO does not...
Accept Gods Offering of Salvation By Crucifixion WITH Jesus.)


You appear to NOT KNOW, the Covenant God made with NT men, VIA Christ Jesus, FOR ALL MEN, Via A NEW BETTER TESTAMENT, (Heb 7:22) was men could RECEIVE Gods Forgiveness, Gift of Salvation, Quickening, BEFORE a mans PHYSICAL DEATH, via, CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body.

THEY ARE Called ^...ARE dead, ARE Washed, ARE Forgiven, ARE Covered, ARE Sanctified, ARE Set apart, ARE Kept, ARE Saved, ARE Justified, HAVE Overcome, ARE a new creature, ARE living “IN” Christ Jesus’ Risen Body, until the DAY, (a secret day), God RAISES UP their BODY IN Glory.
^ THEIR NEW “status”, IS VIA Gods Spiritual Works, UNSEEN to the EYES of men. Their NEW “status” IS wholly, whole and holy unto the Lord God Almighty

That new “status” is even unseen to the man WHO IS SAVED, WHOSE natural Flesh still walks about....HOWEVER the man WHO IS Saved, SHOULD KNOW, It was God Himself WHO OFFERED Salvation to men ALIVE in their FLESH, IF BY their TRUE Confession In Their Heart they GAVE their bodily Life, crucified WITH Jesus.

You claim to BE SAVED, YET, also seem to NOT BELIEVE, God Himself ALREADY Accepted your BODY AS DEAD, crucified with Christ Jesus.

Disagree, that God is Dependent on SEEING a physically DEAD BODY, before He Gives that man His Gift of Salvation....
But INSTEAD that Gods Spirit IN that man KEEPS that mans SALVATION by Gods Power, and that from there Forward, FOREVER God is WITH that man.

Bottom line is that we are saved when we believe. We are saved now. We have eternal life now. Period.

 

[Taken]

And we have that blessed assurance. Right now

Already acknowledge that.

Great, so what has that to do with the endtime witnesses?

Are you Jewish or of ANY of the 12 Tribes?
IF NOT, the two witness, the 144,000 are not being sent to you, for you.

Waiting does not mean we are not saved in the meantime.

Never said waiting for salvation.

He has declared we will have eternal life if we believe in Him. That does not mean we are not alive.

If you are still waiting to BECOME SAVED, you are still IN YOUR NATURAL FLESH BODY.

If you ARE Saved, your body was CRUCIFIED.
Do you know what Crucified means?

To be clear you were talking about physical bodies of the 144,000. They do not need to die any more than any other preacher to be saved or to witness. Period.

The 144,000....already died, already were Saved, already were Quickened, already were Redeemed....already ARE LIKE “holy” ANGELS...

Luke 20:
36: [36] Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

WHAT is an ANGEL LIKE?
Do they have the capability of APPEARING LIKE A MAN? YES
How do we KNOW Angels CAN APPEAR LOOKING LIKE A MAN?

Because SOME MEN have SEEN what appears AS A MAN, but is unknown to them, it was actually AN ANGEL.

Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

The 144,000 WILL APPEAR TO TRIBESMEN (ISRAEL) AS MEN, TO teach the TRIBESMEN, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Saved people eventually also get new eternal bodies...so?

Already acknowledged. So?

 

[Taken]

Bottom line is that we are saved when we believe. We are saved now. We have eternal life now. Period.

FALSE.
While physically alive, you are saved...
WHEN YOU HEARTFULLY CONFESS YOUR BELIEF!

Any man can BELIEVE for days, months, years and NEVER CONFESS their BELIEF....they are NOT SAVED.

IF that same man BELIEVES on the day of his DEATH, THEN he will be saved.

Salvation IS NOT GIVEN UNTIL a BELIEVING BODY DIES!

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: