When You See the Abomination of Desolation Stand in the Holy Place

[marks]

In other words, the unit of measure seems significant depending on the context.

I agree.

But I don't think these are unknowable.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't really understand your question. Are you saying everyone will die at the same time?

Much love!

Not exactly…suggested Job 34:14-15 sounds like what is proposed by the rapture; the removal of His body, the church “the gathering together of His Spirit and His breath …then what follows all flesh would perish together…

Instead consider:

if God set His heart upon man, if God gather unto himself His Spirit and His breath; Ephesians 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And ‘if God sets his heart upon man(this is My Son in whom I am well pleased), if God gather unto himself His Spirit and His breath;’ John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (gather) all men unto me.


Then…all flesh would perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: [15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Again,

Then…all flesh would perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. 2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

[amigo de christo]

Its high time to praise the glorious LORD . SO let the praises begin .

 

[marks]

Not exactly…suggested Job 34:14-15 sounds like what is proposed by the rapture; then removal of His body “the gathering together of His Spirit and His breath …then what follows all flesh would perish together.

Instead consider:

if God set His heart upon man, if God gather unto himself His Spirit and His breath; Ephesians 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: [10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And ‘if God sets his heart upon man(this is My Son in whom I am well pleased), if God gather unto himself His Spirit and His breath;’ John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (gather) all men unto me.


Then…all flesh would perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: [15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Again,

Then…all flesh would perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. 2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are saying here. Can you give me a simple statement to summarize this?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are saying here. Can you give me a simple statement to summarize this?

Much love!

remind me of what is believed concerning the rapture. Is His Spirit and His breath removed prior to the great tribulation…or just His church?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Let the reader understand. What should they understand?

Matthew 24:15-30 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25) Behold, I have told you before.
26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The AOD,
Then the great tribulation
Then Jesus comes.

This is end of age.

People will be able to see it, and respond with material action.

This is visible behavior.

There are a number of different understandings of what the Abomination of Desolation is. What's yours?

Mine is basically that the Man of Sin, the one who will lead the empire of the beast, will sit in the rebuilt Jewish temple, proclaiming himself God.

Do you agree?

Much love!

you asked in the OP “Let the reader understand. What should they understand?”
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. Just that alone, consider the study Charity did on the mind “a reprobate mind” or “let this mind be in you that was in Christ” …which mind has wisdom? The mind of Christ (the Spirit) or a reprobate mind (the flesh)?

your other bolded For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I don’t know about you but God seems in the business of coming to save and not destroy. The “then shall be great tribulation” (Imo) would be to make manifest and declare Him who is able to bear and endure all things, even “great tribulation” as has not been before and will never be again. Foreshadowed in the fire turned up seven times hotter…

do you think literal stars will fall from the sky?

 

[marks]

remind me of what is believed concerning the rapture. Is His Spirit and His breath removed prior to the great tribulation…or just His church?

His breath?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 LITV
16) Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first.
17) Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Much love!

 

[marks]

do you think literal stars will fall from the sky?

Serious question?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In the account of the Transfiguration of Christ we see how the spirit is put on around the body. Spiritual death is being separated from the image of God. This corruptible flesh cannot handle the transfiguration aspect of the image. That is why we are given the Holy Spirit instead of being in the full image of God.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


What is the image of the heavenly if not: Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Who shall change our vile body: murder, discord, envy, lust, hatred, revellings, strife, wrath, variance, seditions,
…that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Colossians 2:17-19 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. [18] Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, [19] And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Serious question?

Much love!

Yes.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

His breath?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 LITV
16) Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first.
17) Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Much love!

we are not always with the Lord already?

 

[marks]

Yes.

No, I don't foresee burning plasma globes hundreds of millions of miles in diameter falling to the earth. It would more be the reverse I think, as stars will have a much greater gravitational field than the earth, and the earth fall into them.

Two much better possiblities, I think, would be either the appearance of stars falling, that is that John was using "phenomenal language", the appearance of things, or that the reference could be what Isaiah prophesied, and Jesus seeming alluded to that the powers of heaven will be shaken, that there will be a judgment of fallen angels.

For myself, I think the reference is to the appearance of falling starts, that is, meteorites and the like.

Much love!

 

[marks]

we are not always with the Lord already?

Maybe there is a way we aren't with Him now, that we will be then. Can you think of some way we aren't with Him now, that we are thinking we will be later?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Maybe there is a way we aren't with Him now, that we will be then. Can you think of some way we aren't with Him now, that we are thinking we will be later?

Much love!

I sure hope He is with us now, if not we are in trouble. Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven(to abound), thou art there: if I make my bed in hell(to be abased), behold, thou art there.

And Philippians 4:12-13 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. [13] I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[marks]

I sure hope He is with us now, if not we are in trouble. Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven(to abound), thou art there: if I make my bed in hell(to be abased), behold, thou art there.

And Philippians 4:12-13 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. [13] I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Philippians 1:23-24 LITV
23) For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better,
24) but to remain in the flesh is more necessary on account of you.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus does none of that - read Daniel 9 - it’s the prince who comes after messiah is cut off in death.

Yes, which was Titus, but this was still God's doing in that He allowed it by lifting His sovereign protection from the nation, the abomination of desolation being the armies that surrounded Jerusalem planting their idolatrous standards in holy ground.

 

[Curtis]

.

 

[Brakelite]

Chuck Missler used to speak of the Bible having a similar property to an hologram. The hologram image has an interesting property compared to a photograph.

If you take a photo of me and use a pair of sissors to cut out my tie, then when you look at the photo, you will never again see what my tie looked like. But in an hologram, if you snip out a bit, then when you look directly at that part, the missing piece is gone, but when you look from a different place, you can "see around" the missing part, and still see what was there, albeit not as clearly.

His idea was that the Bible is like this. There the information is all given in so many places and ways, it becomes self-correcting. In my studies of the Bible, I have to agree with this, as I've found so much consistency in it's message, whether the Gospel or prophecy.



I agree, we should note carefully, "1260 days" and "42 months".

The Jews of that day used a 30 day month, and a 360 day year. There is speculation that the earth's orbit was affected by something at that time, changing our year from 360 days to the current 364.25 days.

Do you think of these time measurements to be that, time measurements, but applied to different peoples? Or that they are not actually time measurements, but are representing something else?

Much love!

The expressions ‘time, times and the dividing of time’, ‘42 months’, ‘1260 days’, and ‘70 weeks’, are very peculiar. They could have been expressed in literal language but instead they are given a symbolic flavor. Notice, for example, that Luke 4:25 and James 5:17 refer to the period when there was no rain in the days of Elijah as ‘three years and six months’. This is the normal way of expressing time (see also, Acts 18:11; II Samuel 2:11; I Samuel 27:7).
It is significant that every measurement of time in prophecy is given a symbolic flavor: hour (Revelation 17:12; 9:13), day (Revelation 12:6), week (Daniel 9:24-27), month (Revelation 13:5), year (Daniel 7:25). It is also significant that non-apocalyptic prophecies express time in literal language: 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11-12), 400 years (Genesis 15:13-15), 120 years (Genesis 6:3) with literal persons performing literal actions!
The symbolic time periods are always found within the context of apocalyptic passages where symbols predominate. For example, the three and one half times are found in the context of four symbolic beasts, a symbolic sea, symbolic winds, symbolic clouds, symbolic horns, and a symbolic little horn.Similarly, the 1260 days are found in a context where a symbolic woman, clothed with a symbolic sun, stands on a symbolic moon, with 12 symbolic stars on her head. She is persecuted by a symbolic dragon who has seven symbolic heads, ten symbolic horns and who casts a third of the symbolic stars to the earth.
In Revelation 13, the 42 months are found within a context where a symbolic composite beast, with ten symbolic horns, receives its power from a symbolic dragon. It also arises from a symbolic sea and later uses a symbolic image beast to impose a symbolic mark!
The same could be said about Daniel 8. There we have a symbolic ram, a symbolic he-goat, and a symbolic little horn. It only stands to reason that if the scenes where these time periods are found in are symbolic, then the time periods must also be symbolic!!

 

[marks]

It is significant that every measurement of time in prophecy is given a symbolic flavor:

Personally, I look for Scriptures to tell me what are symbols, and what those symbols mean. Even idioms, I find, are defined in the Bible itself.

Revelation 12:3 KJV
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 12:9 KJV
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

In this instance, we're told that this is a symbol, and we are told what that symbol means. So I have solid Scriptural authority to say, this red dragon is Satan.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Philippians 1:23-24 LITV
23) For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better,
24) but to remain in the flesh is more necessary on account of you.

Much love!

good point. That is love yea? Paul also spoke of willing to be weak that they be made strong. But (only an opinion) does that necessarily translate into that Paul’s willingness to remain in the flesh on account of them mean Christ left Paul …how else could that great a love be made manifest unless it was the Work of the Spirit of God within Paul? Sounds like someone else who laid down his in weakness that others may live; raised up again by the power of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 4:11-12 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. [12] So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (Not evidence that the Spirit has left but the contrary “Philippians 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”