Where do people go when they die?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
So, since these details are all in the account, it really depends on your own mindset as to how you interpret the story....would God speak to a disobedient and unfaithful King who was breaking his law and allow a dead prophet to tell him what to do, when his living prophets would not even speak to him?
the problem there imo is that you end up making the Bible out to be a liar, specifically at

“Bring up Samuel,” he replied.12But when the woman saw Samuel
15Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am deeply distressed,” replied Saul

even
16“Why do you consult me,” asked Samuel, “since the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy?
which strikes me as basically a refute of your argument about “would Yah even talk to Saul?”
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
23,437
40,026
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where do people go when they die . That is the title of this thread .
So here is a real simple answer . THOSE who believed IN JESUS will be with HIM .
Those who denied HIM , well the lake of fire burns bright and hot .
Come to JESUS one and all that ye may have eternal life .
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,247
5,323
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you think all Christians are heaven bound?
No. There was nothing in there that said that.
“Hell” does not exist in the Bible.....not the word and not the concept.....not anywhere.
Completely wrong.
Sheol is not hell....hades is not hell....the lake of fire is not hell.....these concepts developed long after Jesus and the apostles died.
wrong.
Sorry I could not find them...perhaps you could remind me.....?
just the facts man!

Hell and Hades….are not mentioned in the Old Testament for a very good reason. If you have a Bible with these words in the Old Testament….buy another Bible

The word Hell does not appear in the Old or New Testament, because the word did not exist in the any of the biblical periods. The word Hell is derived from a few sources, from Anglo-Saxon word hellia, derived from the Old English, Old Norse, Old High German, hel, helle, circa. 725 AD.

Nothing like Hell is described in the Old Testament and then of course God never threatened the Hebrews/ Israelites / Jews with a spiritual destination of punishment. So the Jews in the Old Testament did not know of or believe in a Hell….and as it is, modern Jews do not believe in a Hell or a devil today. Knowledge of a place of punishment does not come about until the knowledge of the devil comes about…that is the New Testament.

Hades --- a Greek word --- cannot appear in the Old Testament because the Old Testament was written before the Greek language existed. So what is Hades? It is a little complex and I am sorry about that. The Apostles were tasked with writing the New Testament in Greek, mostly, and it was a Pagan language. The Greek language was developed by a culture that had a different view on morality and limited theological terms. So the Apostles had to take Greek words of close definitions and adjust them by the context of how they were used. Definitions on the fly! LOL

Hades was translated into more modern languages as Hell. But actually Hades is a Greco-Roman god….that presided over a realm called Hades that was not as much a place of torture but as an underworld prison. It was closest Greek word the Apostles could come up with to represent a place of eternal punishment.

Gehenna the Aramaic name for a section of the Valley of Hinnom was a Roman trash dump that was kept on fire intentionally for sanitation purposes ….it was used as an analogy of Hell.

Shoal is a Hebrew/ Israelite / Jewish belief, but it is not well defined. For the most part they believe everyone goes there. For the Old Testament Jews Shoal was the final destination, since Yahweh did not promise them Heaven or threaten them with “Hell.” Christians more or less just dropped the belief in Shoal but there is no biblical reason to believe it no longer exists or is not a possible destination.

Heaven, as far as the Old Testament Jews, they believed that was where God was and they were not even sure if Angels were there. And certainly did not believe that it was a normal destination for people.

It’s about a 400 year period between the Testaments and suddenly we have a devil and Heaven and Hell and a Lake of Fire that where possible destinations for people. Now for anyone that is paying attention, they should be asking themselves….What happened!!! Well a lot happened, but Fundamentalism does not cover that. Generally what they do is try to Christianize the Old Testament to compensate.

But still since the Jews were looking for a human warlord messiah king…the advent of Satan may have made that impractical and it would take a God to straighten things out.

The Jewish Messiah was a savior in that he would free them from their oppressors…by force! The Jewish Messiah was not there to forgive them of sins or save them from Hell or discontinue sacrifices. If you look at the Jewish prophets they foretold that the Messiah kingdom would last forever and the Temple, Mosaic Law, and sacrifices would continue forever.

So the question of were do we go after we die….bottom line we do not know. You can say the grave. Some speculate that is it Shoal. Some believe you go to Heaven or Hell before resurrection and Judgment Day….which would not make any sense. Paul refers to it as sleep so where ever we go, we maybe unconscious.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
sorry i dont deal with strange fire !!! you can make the Bible say anything you want
And so can you.....so how do you know that your beliefs are soundly based on the scriptures if you won’t discuss them or examine them under scrutiny? Are you afraid to?

proclaim it truth you can play with your strange fire and i will pour water on it..
Sounds to me like an excuse to run away.... if you cannot defend your beliefs, then perhaps you need to ask why? Since others are reading your responses, what is the message here? “Don’t ask”?
“Don’t examine what the Bible really says or you might have to alter your beliefs”? :eek:

Isn’t that the challenge that Jesus put before his audience? The “lost sheep” lapped up what he had to teach them, but the others believed their own teachers and lost their place in God’s Kingdom.
Those of the priestly class were afraid of ostracism so they kept in the background like Nicodemus.

What on earth is “strange fire”?

I have a feeling that your water tanks are empty.....:D
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sounds to me like an excuse to run away.... if you cannot defend your beliefs, then perhaps you need to ask why? Since others are reading your responses, what is the message here? “Don’t ask”?
“Don’t examine what the Bible really says or you might have to alter your beliefs”?
have you ever watched fantasy island ?
i find nothing in your teaching that even has the least amount of merit. there for i consider it strange fire
What on earth is “strange fire”?
i thought you was a bible scholar :eek::oops: figure it out same way your theory of no hell is. my message is avoid foolish questions !!!! i find it like clouds with out water all noise no results :rolleyes:
I have a feeling that your water tanks are empty..
o a feel gooder i got plenty water i have a fountain of living water in me . :oops:
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,521
17,188
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“Jesus answered him, ‘I spake freely to the world, I did always teach in a synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews do always come together; and in secret I spake nothing; why me dost thou question? question those having heard what I spake to them; lo, these have known what I said.’

And he having said these things, one of the officers standing by did give Jesus a slap, saying, ‘Thus dost thou answer the chief priest?’ Jesus answered him, ‘If I spake ill, testify concerning the ill; and if well, why me dost thou smite?’

Annas then sent him bound to Caiaphas the chief priest. And Simon Peter was standing and warming himself, they said then to him, ‘Art thou also of his disciples?’ he denied, and said, ‘I am not.’

One of the servants of the chief priest, being kinsman of him whose ear Peter cut off, saith, ‘Did not I see thee in the garden with him?’ again, therefore, Peter denied, and immediately a cock crew.

They led, therefore, Jesus from Caiaphas to the praetorium, and it was early, and they themselves did not enter into the praetorium, that they might not be defiled, but that they might eat the passover; Pilate, therefore, went forth unto them, and said, ‘What accusation do ye bring against this man?’ they answered and said to him, ‘If he were not an evil doer, we had not delivered him to thee.’ Pilate, therefore, said to them, ‘Take ye him — ye — and according to your law judge him;’ the Jews, therefore, said to him, ‘It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;’ that the word of Jesus might be fulfilled which he said, signifying by what death he was about to die.

Pilate, therefore, entered into the praetorium again, and called Jesus, and said to him, ‘Thou art the King of the Jews?’ Jesus answered him, ‘From thyself dost thou say this? or did others say it to thee about me?’

Pilate answered, ‘Am I a Jew? thy nation, and the chief priests did deliver thee up to me; what didst thou?’

-> Jesus answered, ‘My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.’ <-

Pilate, therefore, said to him, ‘Art thou then a king?’

Jesus answered, ‘Thou dost say [it]; because a king I am, I for this have been born, and for this I have come to the world, that I may testify to the truth; every one who is of the truth, doth hear my voice.’

Pilate saith to him, ‘What is truth?’ and this having said, again he went forth unto the Jews, and saith to them, ‘I do find no fault in him; and ye have a custom that I shall release to you one in the passover; will ye, therefore, [that] I shall release to you the king of the Jews?’ therefore they all cried out again, saying, ‘Not this one — but Barabbas;’ and Barabbas was a robber.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:20-40‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


The kingdom of Christ is not of this world; and according to Jesus himself.


“There were not found who did turn back to give glory to God, except this alien;’ and he said to him, ‘Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.’ And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, ‘The reign of God doth not come with observation; nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.’”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:18-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

“For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await — the Lord Jesus Christ — who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

To me the kingdom of Christ is above, and the reign of God is within us by faith because of the spirit of God (Holy spirit) and the Spirit of Christ.

It’s seems that God reconciled the world unto himself through Jesus.

“And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, ‘Be ye reconciled to God;’ for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:18-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

It seems because of what God has done for all the world; and Jesus paying for the sin of all of the world.

That God is not angry with the world so there is no reason to take it out of existence. The only thing that will happen is that individuals still die however people go on to be spiritually resurrected; unbelievers and believers alike going into a new kingdom that is above.


“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign — to the ages of the ages. And he said to me, ‘These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly: Lo, I come quickly; happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.’ And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

It seems unbelievers are outside of the kingdom where believers are found inside of the kingdom.

There will be no end to earth except our understanding that all of will die pass on going on the the dimension of where God resides either near to him or not so near to him depending on the person if they accepted faith, or rejected faith.

People either go to paradise or prison:
Luke 16:19-31
 

GRACE ambassador

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2021
2,387
1,550
113
71
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did the Jews believe in an immortal soul that departed from the body at death? No....“All scripture is inspired of God”...remember?
Precious friend, Since All Scripture is Inspired Of God, Then it matters not what
the "Jews believed {or DISbelieved}," Correct?:

(1) "...Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour....And it came to pass, as her soul
was in departing, (for she died)
that she called his name Benoni: but his father
called him Benjamin. And Rachel died, and was buried..." (Genesis 35:16-19)

hmm, Jews don't read/know/believe their own Old Testament teaching?

(2) "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels
into Abraham's bosom
: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell
he lift up his eyes, being in torments
, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus
in his bosom." (Luke 16:22-23) = Their souls that departed, Correct?

(3) Before Jesus' Resurrection: He and the repentant thief, dying on crosses:
"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in
paradise.
" (Luke 23:42-43) Their souls departed in death, Correct?

(4) After JESUS Resurrection (Soul Returned From paradise, And Re-united
With His Body), And His Precious BLOOD "Opened Up HEAVEN!":

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them
that were slain for the Word of God
, and for the testimony which they held: And
they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, Holy and True, dost Thou
not Judge and Avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Revelation 6:9-10)

Conscious, With their memories, present with The LORD JESUS CHRIST, Correct?

(5) Past and future, so, In the PRESENT Day, where do "members" of The
Body Of CHRIST go, When
our souls depart in death? From Paul, our apostle:

"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given
unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are always Confident, knowing that,
whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) absent soul, Correct?

Paul further teaches: "For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul}, And
To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)

Our souls With CHRIST In HEAVEN?

{critics' NO CONFIDENCE sleep/UNconscious/cease to exist are NOT
"GAIN, And FAR BETTER!"}, Correct?

Precious Aunty Jane, and I, Both love a Great Bible Study, Correct? ;)
 
Last edited:

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,849
7,755
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Well, what came after this statement was nothing scriptural. Just waffle....I’m not interested in people’s opinion of scripture if it is merely a mask for what they want it to say.

I am thinking that speculation is a waste of time if it does not use scripture as a firm base. So just using the scriptures and a good concordance can we just cut to the chase and examine what the Bible tells us about death and focus on the big picture, not just a verse or two that seems to indicate that God is a despotic and sadistic fiend who grants life, but who then demands that we obey him or he will torture us forever in flames....is this who you think he is? That is not the God I know.


Yes...so let’s look at that. Let’s unwrap some concepts here and figure out where they came from and who promoted them....and what they mean in the big scheme of things.


So you think all Christians are heaven bound? Why do you imagine that God placed humans on earth then? Did he not already have a large spiritual family in heaven that he created to live there? Did any of them need ‘training’ here to live there? If not, then why us? What was God’s purpose in putting us here? Can you explain?

“Hell” does not exist in the Bible.....not the word and not the concept.....not anywhere.
Sheol is not hell....hades is not hell....the lake of fire is not hell.....these concepts developed long after Jesus and the apostles died....a time when Jesus indicated that the devil would create a counterfeit “weed”-like “Christianity” that would lead people away from God, but that would be allowed to remain in the world until it was time for the “harvest”.....the “weeds” would be the first to go.


Sorry I could not find them...perhaps you could remind me.....?
There is a vested interest even though it be macabre for those who insist on God burning certain people for eternity. Because of this I find it pointless to debate with them. Their vision of God and their theology stays primitive and reflects more of their own characters than God's.

They have effectually made God in their own image!
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
the problem there imo is that you end up making the Bible out to be a liar, specifically at

“Bring up Samuel,” he replied.12But when the woman saw Samuel
15Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am deeply distressed,” replied Saul

even
16“Why do you consult me,” asked Samuel, “since the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy?
which strikes me as basically a refute of your argument about “would Yah even talk to Saul?”
You are not reading what it says...but only what you think it says....

Who alone "saw" Samuel? Was it Saul? Or only the spirit medium?
When "Samuel" spoke, did Saul hear Samuel's voice? Can spirits talk to humans? Yes, apparently they can, but they cannot materialize like angels can.

If the Jews held no belief in an immortal soul that exists apart from the body, (no belief in heaven or hell) then why would a deranged King even bother to consult someone who was already condemned by God for her practices. To practice such things meant the death penalty in Israel. That is why she was so scared when the spirit identified Saul.

Why would this demon spirit tell the truth? Had these spirits done so before? Yes they had.....read Matthew 8:28-29; Mark 5:7-10.

You think the demons don't know how to deceive? All this spirit told Saul was exactly what God had already foretold for him through Samuel. These demons know everything about everyone...how do you imagine that clairvoyants can tell people intimate secrets conveyed supposedly by their dearly departed? Its a con....their main MO is deception.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12...this was God's law that Saul knew well.....
“When you enter the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, a soothsayer, one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who consults the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God is going to drive them out before you." (NASB)
Read it carefully and let it allow you to see what actually happened in this case.

The Bible does not lie, but you will never know that unless you have studied it in depth, not just snatches of it cherry picked to promote false ideas. A superficial reading of this account will not convey the true meaning of what Saul did and who this "spirit" actually was.

Why would God make communication with the dead a capital offense if it was really only harmless relatives or friends who were talking to them?

Think about it....
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
There is a vested interest even though it be macabre for those who insist on God burning certain people for eternity. Because of this I find it pointless to debate with them. Their vision of God and their theology stays primitive and reflects more of their own characters than God's.

They have effectually made God in their own image!
I agree....
The saddest thing of all is that they can actually relate to this fiendish behavior as "loving" on God's part. What law in Israel ever involved torture? Repentance was the main aim behind punishment. But if a capital offense was committed, a person knew before they acted that death would be the outcome....not torture or suffering...just the forfeiting of life. Gift abused...gift taken away.

This concept was also used by the Catholic church to torture people into forced confessions that gave them sanction for the murder of countless numbers of innocent people. (Isaiah 1:15)
They burned alive at the stake those who dared to question the church or its activities....even those who dared to read the Bible for themselves....how can people be suckered into this stuff....? Its beyond me.
palm
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Precious Aunty Jane, and I, Both love a Great Bible Study, Correct?
Dear Grace...there is so much scriptural error in that post, that I don't know where to start.
unsure


I definitely LOVE a great Bible study, but beginning with the meaning of the word "soul" in Hebrew would be a good starting point.
If you know what the word meant to a Jew, then most of what you posted scripturally, would take on a whole different meaning.
All of the Bible writers were Jewish, and would have written from a Jewish perspective....writing about a Jewish Messiah and Jewish expectations of God's Kingdom. They had the basis, and Jesus and his apostles filled in many of the details.

Since the Jews held no belief in an immortal soul that went anywhere after death, then as a Jew, Jesus would have taught his disciples that truth from the Hebrew scriptures. Did Jesus believe or teach about an immortal part of man that left the body at death to live on elsewhere? And if he did teach that some humans whom the Bible says are "elected" or "chosen" for a role in heaven, is it their "souls" that ascends there, or are they given spirit bodies in order to exist in the presence of God?

Too many unanswered questions for me....
Christendom's party line was something I dispensed with 50 odd years ago. I have never looked back. So many treasures were unlocked for me when I left that empty place.

So, from my perspective, first and foremost, a study of the terms "soul" and "spirit" in their original languages, should form the foundation of our beliefs about these terms.....correct?

The scriptures you quoted show no such knowledge I'm afraid.....like a lot of very sincere people, you have a great knowledge of theology, but a poor grasp of scripture IMO :oops:....is it enough to just believe whatever we are told, or do we owe God the courtesy of actually putting in the effort to do our own research? Jesus demonstrated how important it is to preach the truth about his Father and the relationship between them. The Father taught Jesus all he knows, so we should want his truth to be ours...right?

Would you like to undertake a study of just those two words "soul" and "spirit" and see how they are used in all of scripture, both Hebrew and Geek....not just in a few conveniently translated and misunderstood verses?

I also must point out that the KJB is not the most accurate translation for Bible study. I like to use a variety of translations, especially the Jewish Tanakh and even the Septuagint since it was what the apostles used in their preaching to the Greek speakers of their time. Modern translations can be compared using Strongs Concordance, which has been a very good resource in my own studies.

I have no desire to argue, but would simply like to present information relevant to the subject matter.

Up to you....
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,247
5,323
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dear Grace...there is so much scriptural error in that post, that I don't know where to start.
unsure


I definitely LOVE a great Bible study, but beginning with the meaning of the word "soul" in Hebrew would be a good starting point.
If you know what the word meant to a Jew, then most of what you posted scripturally, would take on a whole different meaning.
All of the Bible writers were Jewish, and would have written from a Jewish perspective....writing about a Jewish Messiah and Jewish expectations of God's Kingdom. They had the basis, and Jesus and his apostles filled in many of the details.

Since the Jews held no belief in an immortal soul that went anywhere after death, then as a Jew, Jesus would have taught his disciples that truth from the Hebrew scriptures. Did Jesus believe or teach about an immortal part of man that left the body at death to live on elsewhere? And if he did teach that some humans whom the Bible says are "elected" or "chosen" for a role in heaven, is it their "souls" that ascends there, or are they given spirit bodies in order to exist in the presence of God?

Too many unanswered questions for me....
Christendom's party line was something I dispensed with 50 odd years ago. I have never looked back. So many treasures were unlocked for me when I left that empty place.

So, from my perspective, first and foremost, a study of the terms "soul" and "spirit" in their original languages, should form the foundation of our beliefs about these terms.....correct?

The scriptures you quoted show no such knowledge I'm afraid.....like a lot of very sincere people, you have a great knowledge of theology, but a poor grasp of scripture IMO :oops:....is it enough to just believe whatever we are told, or do we owe God the courtesy of actually putting in the effort to do our own research? Jesus demonstrated how important it is to preach the truth about his Father and the relationship between them. The Father taught Jesus all he knows, so we should want his truth to be ours...right?

Would you like to undertake a study of just those two words "soul" and "spirit" and see how they are used in all of scripture, both Hebrew and Geek....not just in a few conveniently translated and misunderstood verses?

I also must point out that the KJB is not the most accurate translation for Bible study. I like to use a variety of translations, especially the Jewish Tanakh and even the Septuagint since it was what the apostles used in their preaching to the Greek speakers of their time. Modern translations can be compared using Strongs Concordance, which has been a very good resource in my own studies.

I have no desire to argue, but would simply like to present information relevant to the subject matter.

Up to you....

Like I said these discussions are going to lead to dead end by focusing on the Old Testament.
The discussion on Heaven, Hell, and souls are a New Testament topic.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Like I said these discussions are going to lead to dead end by focusing on the Old Testament.
The discussion on Heaven, Hell, and souls are a New Testament topic.
Are you backing off now? If Paul said that..."All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (MEV) Then what part of scripture does he say we don't need to consult to teach, offer reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness...?

If we are to be "equipped for every good work" then we need ALL scripture.....not just the "New Testament".....who was it that called these parts of the Bible "old" and "new" anyway? Did Jesus and the apostles think they were old? NO! The only thing that was "old" was the covenant that had been in place for generations, now obsolete with the sacrifice of the Christ. He inaugurated a "new covenant" but never did he say that the Hebrew scriptures were obsolete. They form the foundations of all that was written in the Christian era.

So now Mr "knows the Bible backwards and forwards at the language level".....what scripture did Jesus use? In what language were they written? How can you say that we don't need to focus on the "Old Testament"? It taught us what Jesus and his apostles believed about death....did something change in their understanding....yes! But that in no way undermined what was taught to God's people. Clarification is a wonderful thing...it can help you to see that the subject is so much wider and deeper than the box you have constructed to contain it.

Dig deeper....go outside the box.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: stunnedbygrace

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,247
5,323
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If we are to be "equipped for every good work" then we need ALL scripture.....not just the "New Testament"..
I am not sure if you are going to be able to grasp this.
I have already explained the fact that Heaven and Hell as destinations are not part of the Jewish religion. So wanting to prove your belief in the Old Testament is a waste of time.
So if you wanting to harp on things that are irrelevant, I cannot help you.
I have already given you enough information to prove that the people...LOL...one of them being a God, believed in an eternal place of punishment and they described it with the most horrible terms that they knew....fire. It is all through the New Testament.

So now Mr "knows the Bible backwards and forwards at the language level".....what scripture did Jesus use? In what language were they written?

The New Testament was mostly written in Koine Greek with some Aramaic mixed in.
And a lot this I have already explained to you and if you cannot grasp it...that is it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.