Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The two phrases are literally interchangeable in scripture. They are one and the same thing.
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Thats perfect self righteousness.
"im saving myself by continuing to DO something".
The Gospel of "DO-ism".
All that is missing from that self saving theology, is JESUS.
In your mind thats true, im sure.
Trust me when i tell you that "im my Father's House are many mansions", and "new Jerusalem" are not spiritual ideas, but in fact are literal situations.
The Kingdom of Heaven is as Literal as the "new body" that every born again believer will receive, sooner than you know.
Everyone seems to have opinions about many things, but I was pointing to the grammar of the passage.
Maybe that means something to you, the grammar, that is, and maybe it doesn't.
But most certainly, this verse says something a bit different from what you appear to think it means. The difference becomes clear when you look at the grammar. If you don't want to, I understand!
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I purposely kept myself from pointing out to you that the Perfect tense does not say the completed action continues into the future and can not end, only that it continues up to the present. If you look at Greek Perfect tense examples you'll see that many of those examples are of things that don't continue forever past the present. I'm only sharing this now so you can take that into consideration in your own personal quest to know if OSAS is true.
But anyway, the important point of the Hebrews 3:14 passage is that it says you have truly partaken of Christ if you continue to believe. If you've been following all the posts here, some say you are a partaker of Christ even if you don't continue to believe. OSAS may be interesting but if you're in unbelief, what does it matter if you never really believed to begin with or you did but fell away into unbelief? You're damned either way. Let's focus on what matters. OSAS does not matter. What matters is that you know that you must believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, really. They are literally interchanged with each other in the scriptures. They are one and the same thing.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Believing in God for the forgiveness of sins is not a work of self righteous merit.
Can you point me to that quote?
Sounds like you have a question about the power of the Holy Spirit inside you. Do you believe God is able to keep you safe until the the final day?
Are you thinking that you are "generating" your own faith, and that somehow if you continue to generate faith you will remain saved?
It actually says you've become a partaker, not that you have partaken. That also changes the meaning.
There is a new identity you have, a partaker in Christ, and you know that this is true of you as your faith continues to the end. This is a much different message than you are broadcasting.
This new identity, it's not just that, as if you have a different driver's license now. It's that you have an entirely different life. Once you were "alive" because there was fleshy creature with a fleshy mind, and fleshy soul. God would work with these people, providing ways for them to survive until He sent His Son to gather us all up together.
Now, instead of being alive as a fleshy man with a fleshy heart and fleshy mind, we are alive as children of God. Not a life that derives from having a body, but a life that derives from being born of the Spirit, being united with God, indwelt by Him.
So now we are alive in the heavenly realm, and interact through our bodies on this earth. We're to put to death our members upon the earth.
But to think that those members can kill us? We who are alive in Christ Himself? That we may yet die? Jesus Christ Himself said that we would not.
So choose who you will believe.
Much love!
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I think the difference is that to you and I, rebirth and life in Christ is something that we've received from Him, an outright gift. While to @Ferris Bueller rebirth and life in Christ is something that he hopes to keep receiving as he hopes he continues to believe. Or something like that.
With the net result of taking one's eyes off of Jesus to look at themselves. I've found that to be an utter waste of time myself.
Much love!
Thinking that you continue to be forgiven as you continue to believe is. Salvation becomes about what you are doing, instead of about what Jesus did.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Continuing to believe is the same believing you did in the beginning when you got saved. It wasn't a self righteous work of merit then and it doesn't magically turn into one later.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
When you first believed, that was not you looking to yourself to be saved. That exact same believing does not suddenly become that later.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
All BELIEVING PEOPLE without exception are saved and have eternal life. Only BELIEVING PEOPLE will never die. That's why the Bible exhorts us to keep believing. Only BELIEVING PEOPLE have eternal life. Whether you or I think that the true believer can never stop believing, or can stop believing does not change that. You must be a believing person on the day you die to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's why we are told to cling in faith to the hope of salvation.
23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes. Through my trust in the power of God to do that. That's why we are told to keep trusting, keep believing. We are kept safe for the day of salvation by the power of God through faith 1 Peter 1:5.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, I do not generate faith. No one can. Faith is a gracious gift of God. Through which we are then able to trust God, if we want to.
The trusting part is what I do in response to God's gracious gift of faith. By grace God places the indisputable word of the Holy Spirit in our heart that the gospel about Christ really is true. That's the 'call' of God. From there I choose whether or not I'm going to then trust in what God has shown me, by faith, to be true about Jesus. I must continue in that trust to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing. And the Bible is very clear that trusting in Jesus is NOT a work of self righteous merit. It is clearly distinguished from works of self righteous merit.
"to the one who does not work but trusts God..." Romans 4:5
Well, if you ever do, I'll be curious to compare your words to theirs, and see if they were a fair representation.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I understand perfectly. It does not change the fact that it is required that true believers continue to believe to the very end. Some people say it means you can't not believe to the very end. Others believe the true believer can choose not to believe to the very end. What is not in dispute is the believer really is a partaker of Christ in either case.
John wrote, that we might know that we have eternal life.
I think this is the disagreement between you and I.
On the one hand, you appear to think we cannot actually know. On the other hand, I do. I believe we can know that we truly know our Creator, that He wants it so, makes it so.
We can in fact know Him, and know it's real.
In your view, you must continue to believe so you can continue TO BE saved. You keep your self saved by keeping yourself believing.
But Peter speaks of the incorruptible word of God, that lives and remains forever. That new seed that gave us new life. Remains forever. True? Or not true?
Much love!
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