Who Do You Worship?

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Brakelite

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The passage in Hebrews makes the point for me that God did not speak by Jesus in the past; God spoke by the prophets in the past, later by Jesus, after he was begotten / brought into being.

The passage in Colossians makes the point for me that “in him” - not “by him,” as the translation you quoted renders v. 16 - God created all things - as some trinitarian commentaries acknowledge, “with him [Jesus]” in mind.

For the passage in John I refer you to Tyndale’s Translation, the Geneva Bible and others which are rendered similarly - “All things were made by it; and without it was not anything made that was made.”

The word - “it” - until the word is made flesh. The incarnation of the word, I see, is the equivalent or parallel in John of the conception narrative in Matthew and Luke.
Okay, although I think you shortchanged me somewhat on the Hebrews passage, and I surely agree with you that the Father is the ultimate source of all things, yet I find it extremely difficult to arbitrarily dispense with the fairly clear narrative of scripture that depicts 2 beings involved, and the Father authorizing and delegating responsibility to His Son for the creation of all things, such as in...
KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him .
 

Matthias

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Okay, although I think you shortchanged me somewhat on the Hebrews passage, and I surely agree with you that the Father is the ultimate source of all things, yet I find it extremely difficult to arbitrarily dispense with the fairly clear narrative of scripture that depicts 2 beings involved, and the Father authorizing and delegating responsibility to His Son for the creation of all things, such as in...
KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him .

On Hebrews I would add that 2:5 provides the important detail “the world to come, concerning which we are speaking.” Jesus plays a key role in bringing about “the world to come”.

You seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on God referring to Jesus as God. I do too, and I understand that to mean that Jesus is God’s supreme human agent. I see it best explained in the Jewish law of agency.

“Arbitrarily dispensing” with anything written in scripture is a disaster. I don’t think that’s what you are doing, nor do I think that’s what the trinitarians are doing.

I agree with you - against trinitarianism - that there are two beings involved. God is one being. Jesus is another being. Where I disagree with you is where Jesus’ involvement begins.

You, if I understand you correctly, understand him to be the creator (or co-creator?) in Genesis. I understand that Yahweh alone, by himself, without any other being, is the creator in Genesis, that the agency comes after Jesus is begotten / after the word became flesh.

I understand, perhaps with you, Jesus to be the co-creator (the human agent of Yahweh) of the world (or age) to come.
 
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Matthias

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Back to “Who do you worship?” and Jesus of Nazareth …

How satisfied is the reader with the proposition that Jesus was a non-observant Jew?
 

Pearl

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Back to “Who do you worship?” and Jesus of Nazareth …

How satisfied is the reader with the proposition that Jesus was a non-observant Jew?
He wasn't though was he? He kept the festivals. He just didn't uphold the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
 
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Matthias

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He wasn't though was he? He kept the festivals. He just didn't uphold the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.

I believe he was an observant Jew, that he observed the law, fulfilled the expectations and obligations incumbent upon those whose religion is Judaism. That would include, but not be limited to, worshipping the God of Judaism / the God of the Jews.

The God of observant Jews is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

The God of Jesus, an observant Jew, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The God of Jesus is the Father.

What I see in scripture is Jesus loving his God and my God - the God of Judaism, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob - his Father and my Father, as described in Deuteronomy 6:5.

The proposition I asked about is, in my opinion, worse than atrocious.

P.S. As I was sitting here thinking about it, John 20:17 came to mind.

“Go to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

I cannot even imagine Jesus not loving, not worshipping, his Father and our Father, his God and our God.
 
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L.A.M.B.

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A question @Brakelite
I've read what a " Historist" is. Can you tell me HOW that deals with being a followers of Christ and believing in God ?
I had never heard the term before and as I have said " I don't like labels"
I do however like to know where ppl are coming from and how their labels and beliefs tie in.
You say some at point good biblical statements of understanding the TRUTH.

PLEASE don't feel you have to defend your position. I'm just curious and want understanding.
Blessings.
 

Aunty Jane

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Why can't Jesus be the son of God, and be God, and still have a father who is God?
I think we can safely say its because neither Jesus or his Father ever said they were one and the same God....if they had ever put it like that, I don't think any reasoning person would believe it either....

I don't really understand why everything needs to make sense in human understanding in organic world terms. God isn't limited by our perception and understanding of how things work.
If neither God nor his son ever said it, why would we believe it in the first place? Who said Jesus was God? The NT was written in Greek...and in Greek "theos" (god) doesn't always mean Yahweh. The apostles knew who their God was...and it wasn't Jesus. (2 Corinthians 8:5-6)

In fact, I suspect when you get to heaven, that a lot of your understanding of reality will melt away.
Well, since I have no desire to go to heaven, I am quite happy to wait until God's Kingdom cleanses the earth and brings in a new governmental system for the redeemed human race on earth. I don't need to go to heaven to experience life the way God intended it to be in the beginning.....only a chosen few will have that privilege...all hand picked by God and anointed with his spirit.
Where did God put the first humans.....? How long were they supposed to live there?
There was no mention of 'heaven or hell' to Adam......do you know why?

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."
That scripture as you know, is in the OT and it was written in Hebrew....
Here is how the Jewish Tanakh renders that verse in context....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:

14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:

15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר"


Do you see how "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" is translated into English? "I will be what I will be". This is "יְהֹוָ֞ה" the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

This is not a statement of his existence, because Israel had already experienced the hand of Yahweh (יְהֹוָ֞ה) in their deliverance from Egypt. They knew he existed better than anyone.....so, this is a statement about what he would "be" or "become" in their future. So I don't see "I AM" as having any relevance in that statement. Like it has no relevance in the following scripture...

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
That is not what Jesus said.....if you read the verse in context you will see that Jesus is answering a question about his age....

"You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are You? The prophets died too. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him. And if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you; but I do know Him, and I follow His word. 56 Your father Abraham was overjoyed that he would see My day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (NASB)

The footnote reads "I am" or "came into being". That verse then should read..."before Abraham was born I came into being". IOW, "I existed before Abraham".
So again.....people are not acquainted with what the Bible itself says in its original languages. That is what happens when you feed off the ideas of others rather than doing your own research.

Revelation 22:12

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
If you are familiar with the Revelation you will know that it was given to Jesus by God, and Jesus conveyed it to John via an angel.....four individuals were involved in this transmission.....The whole of Revelation is interspersed with things that God said and things that Jesus said....it is not always easy to tell who is speaking, unless you know what you are reading. The Revelation was given in signs or symbols and very few truly understand its meaning.

But Revelation 21:6-7 gives us a clue....
"Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give water to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life, without cost. 7 The one who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son."

This has to be God (Jehovah) speaking because Jesus' disciples are always called his "brothers"....the person speaking is addressing those who will become his "sons". Jesus is never spoken of as having "sons". He is a son and those who join him in the heavenly Kingdom are all his brothers. They will serve the Father as one body......"the body of Christ".
 
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MatthewG

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Why do you worship?

To praise God and sing joyous songs to the one who has done so much! It is such a wonderful thing to experience and have an relationship with God! Who loves you in spite of your failures, who desires to hear from you in prayer, for all people. Who loves you for who you are, a person of faith, who looks toward Yahweh in hope and expectancy of his spiritual provisions to give us peace and rest from our burdens by looking towards his son Yeshua who gives us freedom; and sets us free from the bondage of our own fleshly understanding in guidances towards spiritual and heavenly places if you set your mind on these things it is a good reason to worship and praise God and the Lord Yeshua who has paid for the sins of the world and has had total victory for all people.

It’s up the one who decides to choose to look for him. And sometimes He shows himself to those who were never seeking the first place, because perhaps you shared when you were lead by the spirit.

Keep having faith.
Keep having hope (expectancy).
Keep having love (the most difficult of them all).
 

Brakelite

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A question @Brakelite
I've read what a " Historist" is. Can you tell me HOW that deals with being a followers of Christ and believing in God ?
I had never heard the term before and as I have said " I don't like labels"
I do however like to know where ppl are coming from and how their labels and beliefs tie in.
You say some at point good biblical statements of understanding the TRUTH.

PLEASE don't feel you have to defend your position. I'm just curious and want understanding.
Blessings.
Interesting question. I think that historicism as a hermeneutic, and the way one looks at how prophecy has, and is, being so wonderfully fulfilled in history is the only hermeneutic that makes sense of the place and importance of prophecy in relation to the big picture of the ongoing conflict between Christ and Satan. It's the only hermeneutic that actually covers and honestly deals with the last 2000 years of human history, and the continuous development of both sides in the controversy... Satan's use of human institutions in his attack on God's church, and Christ's development of His people as a standard against apostasy. Preterism and futurism both ignore that history, and have no explanation for doing so. Historicism is a witness to God's sovereignty and power over the nations, and is a faith affirming witness to His willingness to sanctify and grow individuals according to His will.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Titus 2:13: "waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"

John 5:18
18 "This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."

Matthew 2:11
11 "And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh."

Luke 24:52
52 "And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,"

If Jesus is not God incarnate, why do we worship Him? His identity itself is divine! And, He ain't no "angel"! Archangel or any other kind of angel.


5 Bible Verses about Angels Not To Be Worshipped


Revelation 22:8-9
I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he *said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”


Matthew 4:9-10
and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’”

Luke 4:7-8
Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

Romans 1:25
"For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

Colossians 2:18
"Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,"

Source: 5 Bible verses about Angels Not To Be Worshipped

So then, how do those who worship angel/angels get past these verses? Seems they might have to jump through a whole lotta hoops to make this into "a" truth...?

I am truly interested in what some of our beloved JW's have to say about this...please though, not a million para's...I'm slow like that :D

The Father says WORSHIP Jesus
 

Aunty Jane

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God the Word, Who is a distinct Person from God the Father, became flesh. Jesus Christ, Who is The Word, is not a "secondary God", to the Father.
I don’t know of anyone who believes that Jesus is a “secondary God”......but no scriptures teaches that Jesus is Almighty God, Yahweh. The trinity actually teaches that there are three equal “gods”...”God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit”.....I can find “God the Father”, but not once are the other two ever mentioned.

The apostles did not think that Jesus was their God....

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...here Paul speaks on behalf of his fellow Christians.....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

The fact that there are “many gods and many lords” means that these titles apply to more personages than just Yahweh and his Christ. Even satan is called a “god” in 2 Corinthians 4:4.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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I don’t know of anyone who believes that Jesus is a “secondary God”......but no scriptures teaches that Jesus is Almighty God, Yahweh. The trinity actually teaches that there are three equal “gods”...”God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit”.....I can find “God the Father”, but not once are the other two ever mentioned.

The apostles did not think that Jesus was their God....

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...here Paul speaks on behalf of his fellow Christians.....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

The fact that there are “many gods and many lords” means that these titles apply to more personages than just Yahweh and his Christ. Even satan is called a “god” in 2 Corinthians 4:4.

The very passage that you quote from, which has been corrupted at a very early time, actually disproves what you say, "but no scriptures teaches that Jesus is Almighty God, Yahweh"

On the contrary, we have here ONE GOD, or Elohim, Who Paul says, is the Father. he then says, there is ONE LORD, which is YAHWEH, and this is Jesus Christ. This is clear from Isaiah 45:5, which reads, "I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no god". Jesus Christ is the ONE LORD, which means that Paul here distinguishes Elohim, the Father, from Yahweh, Jesus Christ!

“But to us one God, the Father, of Whom all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom all things, and we by Him. And one Holy Spirit, in Whom all things and we in Him” (Original Letter by The Apostle Paul)

The words, “καὶ ἐν πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ἐν ᾧ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐν αὐτῷ”, were removed at a very early time. Like 1 John 5:7, which also very clearly Testifies to the Holy Trinity.

Greek Manuscript

Uncial 0142, 10th century of the Byzantine text-type (Dr A Souter Novvm Testamentvm Graece.1962)

Minuscule 460, 11th century (Souter; Expositors Greek Testament), dated by F Scrivener

Minuscule 618, 12th century of the Byzantine text-type (Souter; EGT)

Minuscule 234, 13th century of the Byzantine text-type (Souter; EGT)

ATHANASIUS (293-373) – Greek

“As it is thus written, it is clear that the Spirit is not a creature, but takes part in the act of creation. The Father creates all things through the Word in the Spirit; for where the Word is, there is the Spirit also”

HILARY OF POITIERS (315-368) – Latin

“For God the Father is One, from Whom are all things; and our Lord Jesus Christ the Only-begotten, through Whom are all things, is One; and the Spirit, God's Gift to us, Who pervades all things, is also One” (On the Trinity (Book II, ch.1)

Although Hilary, who was a close friend of Athanasius, does not use “in Whom all things”, that fact is that he does refer to the Holy Spirit in this context, which is clearly from 1 Corinthians 8:6. The words are a free quote, as we have “the only-begotten”, etc, here for Jesus.

EPIPHANIUS OF SALAMIS (315-403 - Greek

According to Nestle-Aland's Novum Testamentum Graece (26th edition)

GREGORY OF NAZIANZUS (329-389) – Greek

“For to us there is but One God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and One Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom are all things; and One Holy Ghost, in Whom are all things” (Oration XXXIX, ch.xii)

BASIL THE GREAT (330-379) - Greek

“in the words of the Apostle, "One God and Father of whom are all things,...and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things." 1 Corinthians 8:6 "Whatever, then," he goes on, "is the relation of these terms to one another, such will be the relation of the natures indicated by them; and as the term 'of whom' is unlike the term 'by whom,' so is the Father unlike the Son." On this heresy depends the idle subtlety of these men about the phrases in question. They accordingly assign to God the Father, as though it were His distinctive portion and lot, the phrase “of Whom;” to God the Son they confine the phrase “by Whom;” to the Holy Spirit that of "in Whom,"” (De Spiritu Sancto, Chap. 2)

AMBROSE OF MILAN (339-397) – Latin & Greek

“So, then, as we read that all things are of the Father, so, too, that all things can be said to be of the Son, through Whom are all things; and we are taught by proof that all things are of the Spirit in Whom are all things” (On The Holy Spirit, Bk.2, ch.9. 96)

AUGUSTINE OF HIPPO (354-430) – Latin & Greek

“God, not only the Father, but also the Son and the Holy Spirit, “of whom are all things, and through whom are all things, and in whom are all things” (On the Trinity, chapter XV. 25)

“Of whom are all things, through whom are all things, in whom are all things” (On the Origin of the Soul, Bk.I, ch. 24)

“from whom are all things, by whom are all things, in whom are all things” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagianas, Ch. 16)

CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA (died 444) - Greek

According to Dr Souter, and The Expositor's Greek Testament.

JOHN OF DAMASCUS (675-749) – Greek

“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom are all things, and one Holy Spirit, in Whom are all things” (Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Chapter X)

FIFTH GENERAL COUNCIL AT CONSTANTINOPLE, 5 MAY A.D.553

“If anyone shall not confess that the nature or essence of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is one, as also the force and the power; [if anyone does not confess] a consubstantial Trinity, one Godhead to be worshipped in three subsistences or Persons: let him be anathema. For there is but one God even the Father of whom are all things, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things, and one Holy Spirit in whom are all things” (The Capitula of the Council, The first "anathema”)

At the Council held in A.D.553, the then Emperor, Justinian I, sought to settle once and for all, the dangers of “Monophysitism”. At this Council, there were some 164 Bishops, who were mainly of the Greek speaking Church, with about 68 who were from the North African Church, which was mainly Latin speaking. Without going into too much detail of what took place at this Council, we shall look at one section of a document that was the outcome of this Council. We are told that “a series of 14 articles, or anathemas, was prepared, most of them corresponding closely with the articles of Justinian's 'confession of faith', in which the orthodox faith as to the Trinity and Incarnation was restated” (Dr H Wace, and W Piercy; A Dictionary of Christian Biography, p.612)

The evidence to the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 8:6, is in my opinion, very strong. Its omission is no doubt due to the corruption by those who were enemies to the Bible Teaching on the Holy Spirit.
 

Aunty Jane

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The very passage that you quote from, which has been corrupted at a very early time, actually disproves what you say, "but no scriptures teaches that Jesus is Almighty God, Yahweh"
Corrupted eh...? By whom and where is the evidence? Jesus is not once called Yahweh in any passage of scripture. Show me one passage where it is not an assumption.

On the contrary, we have here ONE GOD, or Elohim, Who Paul says, is the Father. he then says, there is ONE LORD, which is YAHWEH, and this is Jesus Christ. This is clear from Isaiah 45:5, which reads, "I am Yahweh, and there is none else. Besides me, there is no god". Jesus Christ is the ONE LORD, which means that Paul here distinguishes Elohim, the Father, from Yahweh, Jesus Christ!
No sorry, that is just nonsense. Isaiah 45:5 agrees with Deuteronomy 6:4.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me. האֲנִ֚י יְהֹוָה֙ וְאֵ֣ין ע֔וֹד זֽוּלָתִ֖י אֵ֣ין אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֲאַזֶּרְךָ֖ וְלֹ֥א יְדַעְתָּֽנִי:" (Isaiah 45:5) "The Lord" is Yahweh as we can see in the Hebrew text. He alone is God.

Who was the God of Jesus Christ? (John 20:17) The same God as the apostles worshipped. Their "one God" is "the Father".....all of Jesus' disciples were to pray to this Father, whom Jesus identified as "the only true God" (John 17:3) Who did Jesus pray to?

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods, (Genesis 31:30-32; Genesis 35:2) but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence.
ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Yahweh himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men....so El (singular) was not just referring to the Father.
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one. דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Israel had only one God and it wasn't Jesus.....it was Yahweh.

When Moses delivered the Israelites from Egypt, he wanted to tell them the name of their God......
Exodus 3:13-15...(Tanakh)
"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"

14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"


Who was the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob?....not Jesus.

At Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God”....not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Yahweh at Genesis 17:1.

“But to us one God, the Father, of Whom all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom all things, and we by Him. And one Holy Spirit, in Whom all things and we in Him” (Original Letter by The Apostle Paul)
Really?.....
palm
And where is the evidence for that?

The words, “καὶ ἐν πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ἐν ᾧ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐν αὐτῷ”, were removed at a very early time. Like 1 John 5:7, which also very clearly Testifies to the Holy Trinity.
Where is your evidence for that as well...?

You do understand that 1 John 5:7 does not testify to the trinity at all.....? Look at verse 8....
"For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." (NASB)

"For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree." (ESV)

"Thus, there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three are as one.." (NCB)

The words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” (1 John 5:7 KJV) found in older translations are actually spurious additions to the original text.

A footnote in The Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation, says that these words are “not in any of the early Greek MSS [manuscripts], or any of the early translations, or in the best MSS of the Vulg[ate] itself.”
A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by Bruce Metzger (1975, pp. 716-718), traces in detail the history of the spurious passage. It states that the passage is first found in a treatise entitled Liber Apologeticus, of the fourth century, and that it appears in Old Latin and Vulgate manuscripts of the Scriptures, beginning in the sixth century.

Modern translations as a whole, both Catholic and Protestant, do not include them in the main body of the text, because of recognizing their spurious nature. (RS, NE, NAB)
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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@Aunty Jane

Matthew 11:10 Luke 7:27

“οὗτός ἐστιν περὶ οὗ γέγραπται. Ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου, ὃς κατασκευάσει τὴν ὁδόν σου ἔμπροσθέν σου”

“For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee” (KJV)

Mark 1:2-3

“As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight”

“Ἰδοὺ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου, ὃς κατασκευάσει τὴν ὁδόν ⸀σου”

The words of Jesus Christ are neither from the Hebrew Old Testament, nor the Greek Version (LXX) of the Old Testament. It is a free translation from the Hebrew, by The Lord Jesus Himself. The words in the Gospels are from Malachi 3:1, and Exodus 23:20, and Mark also has Isaiah 40:3.

Malachi 3:1

“Behold, Me (הִנְנִי) One sending My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me (לְפָנָי), and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of hosts”

“ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου…λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ” (Greek Septuagint Old Testament. LXX)

“Behold, I send forth my messenger, and he shall survey the way before me..Says The Lord Almighty”

Exodus 23:20

“Behold, I send an angel before thee, to keep thee on the way, and to bring thee unto the place which I have prepared” (Leeser)

“Καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου, ἵνα φυλάξῃ σε ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ, ὅπως εἰσαγάγῃ σε εἰς τὴν γῆν, ἣν ἡτοίμασά σοι” (LXX)

“And, behold, I send my angel before thy face, that he may keep thee in the way, that he may bring thee into the land which I have prepared for thee”

In the passage in Malachi, the Speaker is Yahweh, “the Lord of Hosts”. Yahweh is here speaking of His own Coming, “prepare the way before Me”. The “messenger” whom Yahweh is sending is not the same as “The Messenger of the Covenant”, Who is here identified as “'âdôn”, the same Hebrew word used in Psalm 110:1, “Yahweh said to Adoni”. A word which is used many times in the Hebrew Old Testament, for Almighty God (Exodus 23:17; 34:23; Deuteronomy 10:17; Joshua 3:11, 13; Isaiah 1:24, 3:1, 10:16, 10:33, 19:4; Psalm 97:5; 136:3; Zechariah 4:14, 5:5, etc)

In the quotations in the New Testament, Jesus has changed, “before Me (לְפָנָי, μου)”, to, “before thee (σου)”. By doing this, Jesus here is the Speaker of Malachi 3:1, Who is speaking about His own Coming, as Yahweh. The “'âdôn” in this verse is the equivalent as “Yahweh”, yet distinct from Him. Jesus here makes John the Baptist to be the one who went “before Him”, to “prepare His Way”. Jesus here clearly identifies Himself as Yahweh, and asserts His own Deity as the God of the Old Testament.

In the passage in Mark’s Gospel (also, Matthew 3:3; Luke 3:4-5; John 1:23) , he also has a quote from Isaiah 40:3, which reads:

“The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare ye the Way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a Highway for our God”

“A voice cries out, “In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord, and in the desert make a smooth highway for our God” (DSS)

The quotes in the Gospels as a fulfilment of the Prophecy of Isaiah in John the Baptist, is yet another testimony to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. The passage in Isaiah has “Prepare ye the Way of the LORD”, which is the Name Yahweh, which here in the Gospels is applied to Jesus Christ. In Malachi 4:5-6, it says:

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse”

In Matthew 11:13-14, Jesus identifies John the Baptist as “Elijah” the Prophet, “For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come”. Who is a “type” of Elijah, and not the actual Prophet himself. John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Jesus Christ, Who is identified as Yahweh.

In Luke chapter 1, speaking of John the Baptist, Luke says:

“And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord” (16-17)

The “he” in this passage is John the Baptist. The “Him” refers back to “Yahweh their God”. Some, because of their theology, as they cannot accept that Jesus IS Almighty God, try to argue that the “Him” is not referring to “Yahweh their God”, but, to the thus far identified “Messiah”, Who is not even mentioned till verses 26 onwards. This passage in Luke, together with Malachi 4:5-6, Matthew 11:13-14, and Luke 1:76, where we read:

“And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways”

All show that Jesus Christ IS the Yahweh of Malachi 3 and 4, and Isaiah 40:3-5, and therefore the Eternal, Self-Existing, Unchanging, Almighty God of the Bible.

Evidence beyond any dispute, that Jesus Christ is YHWH
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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@Aunty Jane

Paul says that Jesus Christ is YHWH

We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,
1 Corinthians 10:9

And the people spoke against God and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this worthless food.” Then YHWH sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.
Numbers 21:5-6
 

Matthias

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Why do you worship?

To praise God and sing joyous songs to the one who has done so much! It is such a wonderful thing to experience and have an relationship with God! Who loves you in spite of your failures, who desires to hear from you in prayer, for all people. Who loves you for who you are, a person of faith, who looks toward Yahweh in hope and expectancy of his spiritual provisions to give us peace and rest from our burdens by looking towards his son Yeshua who gives us freedom; and sets us free from the bondage of our own fleshly understanding in guidances towards spiritual and heavenly places if you set your mind on these things it is a good reason to worship and praise God and the Lord Yeshua who has paid for the sins of the world and has had total victory for all people.

It’s up the one who decides to choose to look for him. And sometimes He shows himself to those who were never seeking the first place, because perhaps you shared when you were lead by the spirit.

Keep having faith.
Keep having hope (expectancy).
Keep having love (the most difficult of them all).

Would you say that Jesus did or didn’t have the same reasons to worship God?
 

Taken

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"but no scriptures teaches that Jesus is Almighty God, Yahweh

No one is claiming Jesus uses the name Yahweh.
However;
Disagree the Knowledge that Jesus is God is not in Scripture.


Heb 1:
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets...
[8] But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. <—- POWER, MIGHTY, ALMIGHTY!

John 14:
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

John 10:
36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Even the Jews understood Jesus was claiming to be God, by Jesus saying He and God are one, and Jesus calling Himself the Son of God.
And twice they attempted to stone Jesus to death for saying those things.


John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

On the contrary, we have here ONE GOD, or Elohim, Who Paul says, is the Father. he then says, there is ONE LORD, which is YAHWEH, and this is Jesus Christ.

* There is Gods Knowledge, given in Scripture, believe it or not.
* There there is Gods Wisdom, Gods Understanding, given by God.

You debate with your Opinion against Scriptural Knowledge, which you have not seen or ignore.