Who is Right?

[mjrhealth]

but i can tell you with confidence that you are not saved yet, regardless of what anyone else has told you, for the simple reason that you have not held out to the end yet

Hmmm

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It takes faith, something lacking into days world and beliefe in te hpower of God to save man, something again ,missing from te hchristian community. Making out as if it is impossible fo Him to save man, because mans power is greater than Gods ????

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmmm

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It takes faith, something lacking into days world and beliefe in te hpower of God to save man, something again ,missing from te hchristian community. Making out as if it is impossible fo Him to save man, because mans power is greater than Gods ????

well, as to that, all i can say is that i did not mean to imply that anyone here was not a Christian, ok? That is hardly for me to say. As to 1Cor1:18, all i can say is that you have chosen a verse that makes my point, rather than refutes it, and all you have to do now is find a translation that has not been scribed to death. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

And this verse includes me, ok? So again i say, with confidence, that anyone who tells you that you are saved already does not know what they are talking about, and is inviting you into a grave, wherein you are afforded a false sense of confidence, and feel you have somehow already arrived, and are no longer a Wanderer, and have made it to the Promised Land already. I did that for most of my life, and worshipped Nehushtan, too, from the Promised Land, just like in Kings.

So, i have no desire to offend people here, but the Book is going to be offensive to people who have decided they know, and i am getting infractions now for quoting Scripture, so i guess it is time for me to go. Best of luck to you guys.

 

[Heb 13:8]

wherein you are afforded a false sense of confidence, and feel you have somehow already arrived, and are no longer a Wanderer, and have made it to the Promised Land already. I did that for most of my life, and worshipped Nehushtan, too, from the Promised Land, just like in Kings.

So, i have no desire to offend people here, but the Book is going to be offensive to people who have decided they know, and i am getting infractions now for quoting Scripture, so i guess it is time for me to go. Best of luck to you guys.

Underline: Sounds like you're not sure you have eternal life right now. Have you accepted His free gift of salvation? You must be born again to see the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[mjrhealth]

that anyone who tells you that you are saved already does not know what they are talking abou

So you dont believe God has teh power to save man, its no wonder people are leaving Christianity when so called "christians" dont believe God can save.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you dont believe God has teh power to save man, its no wonder people are leaving Christianity when so called "christians" dont believe God can save.

But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

 

[mjrhealth]

But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

You havnt answered the question, do you beleieve God has the power to save. by all accounts on this forum the whole of mankind is doomed to death, no faith in God only in ones self.

 

[Heb 13:8]

But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

(1) http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

This can have two meanings. First, that those who endured in their faith, even under persecution and being killed for their faith, would be saved.

Secondly, that the believers who endured until the end of the Roman siege would be saved. Some believers were taken captive by the Jews and held until the end, when their captors suddenly surrendered to the Roman army. Titus took the captors prisoner, but let the believers go free.

Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible:

He that shall endure unto the end–shall be saved. The word “end” here has by some been thought to mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the end of the Jewish economy. And the meaning has been supposed to be, he that perseveres in bearing these persecutions to the end of the wars shall be safe. God will protect his people from harm, so that not a hair of the head shall perish. Others, with more probability, have referred this to final salvation, and refer the “end” to the close of life. He that bears afflictions and persecutions faithfully–that constantly adheres to his religion, and does not shrink till death–shall be saved, or shall enter heaven.

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

But he that shall endure to the end, In the profession of faith in Christ, notwithstanding the violent persecutions of wicked men; and in the pure and incorrupt doctrines of the Gospel, whilst many are deceived by the false teachers that shall arise; and in holiness of life and conversation, amidst all the impurities of the age; and shall patiently bear all afflictions, to the end of his life, or to the end of sorrows, of which the above mentioned were the beginning:

the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan1, and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

(2) https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

 

[bbyrd009]

You havnt answered the question, do you beleieve God has the power to save. by all accounts on this forum the whole of mankind is doomed to death, no faith in God only in ones self.

major, yes sure i do, but i don't see how that relates to the verse, or abrogates one's responsibility to seek their own salvation, and avert death, so i guess you will have to connect those dots for me, ty.

 

[mjrhealth]

major, yes sure i do, but i don't see how that relates to the verse, or abrogates one's responsibility to seek their own salvation, and avert death, so i guess you will have to connect those dots for me, ty.

Quiet easily. it takes Faith thats why it is "grace by faith". See everyone denies God can save them and all seem to insist we cant be saved.

I know I am saved, with 100% surety

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

And you can argue with God if you dont beleieve him and you will loose..

Mans problem is this

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[heretoeternity]

Satan and his demons believe and have faith, and they tremble James 2...but they are not saved because they do not repent through doing God's commandments..faith + God's grace + repentance (obedience) = Salvation..James 2, Romans 3, 1st John 3

 

[mjrhealth]

.faith + God's grace + repentance

Still laying stumbling blocks before men, that is not the work of God, you would be surised the number of "christians+ walking in dsiobedoence, becuase ther faith is not in God.

 

[bbyrd009]

well major, you say that you know you are saved, 100% sure, and imo this is not Scriptural, and you have no Witness to back you up, and i could shoot verses at you the rest of the day to support this, but it wouldn't matter if you are already sure, right? I mean, how does that pov hold up in the face of he who holds out to the end..? Or even he who says he knows does not yet know? So wadr what i am hearing is that a switch has gotten thrown in you, "lost/saved," off/on, and there are ezackly two states for people in that model, black or white, which i also don't see Supported, wadr. I mean, from there, you pretty much have to swallow OSAS, and from there, you don't have to change your mind anymore, right? Your mind is done changing, then, which i think is the goal there, tbh.

 

[bbyrd009]

Quiet easily. it takes Faith thats why it is "grace by faith". See everyone denies God can save them and all seem to insist we cant be saved.

I know I am saved, with 100% surety

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

And you can argue with God if you dont beleieve him and you will loose..

Mans problem is this

2Ti_3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

so, i would like to hear your arguments at the two verses up there,

he who hold out to the end will be saved

and

he who says he knows does not yet know as he ought.

or BAM, bring me another verse translated by apostates, or the Queen, and let's see what It really says about the matter,
if that last attempt (which of course got no rebuttal, they never do) did not impress you any.

and i tell you honestly that i am prepared to believe you, and i would like nothing better than for you to prove from Scripture that you are saved, right now.
But it is man's wisdom, just like "Easter is in the Bible," and "You are a sore loser if you don't see Easter in the Bible," etc.

 

[mjrhealth]

and you have no Witness to back you u

I have God Jesus , teh Holy spirit and all the hosts of Heaven, yo usee as far as your nose, God is my beginning God is my end if He says it is so, than it is. I would rather believe Him than any one else. There is a reason why it is called FAITH.

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

 

[mjrhealth]

so, i would like to hear your arguments at the two verses up there,

What is there to argue. the devil has already convinced the world it cant be saved, is it teh devil we believe or God. It is teh POWER of GOD, is the devils power greater than Gods???

 

[Josho]

With so many denominations, who is right? I now consider myself a former catholic and a born-again christian. I believe in Jesus and that he died for our sins so that we could go to heaven. I believe in Jesus my Lord, my God. I will give Jesus, live Jesus and love Jesus.

David

I'm gonna say the 1st Christians from the Early Church, from the very foundation of Christianity, Paul, Peter and them all, they would preach the gospel anywhere and fellowship with anyone the Holy Spirit led them to, they weren't afraid of talking Jesus and eating dinner with sinners, drunkards, prostitutes, that was the original Church, and they would lead many to Jesus.

But really with so many denominations these days who is right? Anyone who is right with Christ and right through Christ, if you have asked Jesus into your heart, repented of your sins, been baptized in water and the Spirit than you are right with Christ, right in Christ and righteous through Christ, don't let anybody else tell you otherwise, and repent when ya do wrong. You can be as uneducated as anybody and still be right with Christ, you don't need a head full of theology to be right with God or right through Christ, the relationship with the Holy Ghost is way more important than a head full of Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

amen! It is what is in your heart that matters. Personally i would keep an open mind at the ritual baptism thing, you'll prolly lose that at some point, too, God doesn't care about all our preciouses, our rituals, but whatever. They keep you from Word, just like easter keeps us from Passover, and knowing keeps us from seeking, ritual "baptisms" keep us from the real thing, too. Because now that you got dunked, you're done with the "baptism" thing, right? We got a little ritual one for the baptism of the spirit, too, and we'll just sweep that "fire" one away entirely, i guess. Prolly that is just for the "bad" people, maybe. Almost surely probably.

I have God Jesus , teh Holy spirit and all the hosts of Heaven, yo usee as far as your nose, God is my beginning God is my end if He says it is so, than it is. I would rather believe Him than any one else. There is a reason why it is called FAITH.

1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

yes, which i think i have already covered here? That you got those translations with the KJV blinders on, wadr, and no other translations support that interpretation, and it is an outright lie, not supported in the Lexicon, and put there so Apostates can feel better, and be "sure?" The correct translation is "being saved," but of course ol' Queenie scribed the Book up pretty good, and hopes you don't use a lexicon, i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

What is there to argue. the devil has already convinced the world it cant be saved, is it teh devil we believe or God. It is teh POWER of GOD, is the devils power greater than Gods???

well, i don't know what to tell you there, but that this comes across as a way to evade the truth, and the devil hasn't convinced me that i can't be saved, in the end, if i hold out until then, but i tell you what, most "seekers" seem to draw a blank at what "hold out to the end" even means, seems like to me, and the answer i usually get there is some blather about, essentially, refusing to change their mind, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, like, oh, easter, i guess.

So go with what you know there, major, but let's not kid ourselves, ok. Anyone who tells you that you are saved, right now, is lying to you, and cannot support the opinion from Scripture, and this is done for a very important reason, the same reason we have easter, and fertility rites and bunnies and whatnot, instead of Passover, which i already know that if i asked your kids what Passover is, they would look at me funny, ok.

So, i'll ask you; is the devil's power greater than God's? Well, i guess that is up to you, huh.

So, what is there to argue? You wanna try again, at those two verses, or just keep on your path, of being so sure, of knowing?

 

[Josho]

amen! It is what is in your heart that matters. Personally i would keep an open mind at the ritual baptism thing, you'll prolly lose that at some point, too, God doesn't care about all our preciouses, our rituals, but whatever. They keep you from Word, just like easter keeps us from Passover, and knowing keeps us from seeking, ritual "baptisms" keep us from the real thing, too. Because now that you got dunked, you're done with the "baptism" thing, right? We got a little ritual one for the baptism of the spirit, too, and we'll just sweep that "fire" one away entirely, i guess. Prolly that is just for the "bad" people, maybe. Almost surely probably.
yes, which i think i have already covered here? That you got those translations with the KJV blinders on, wadr, and no other translations support that interpretation, and it is an outright lie, not supported in the Lexicon, and put there so Apostates can feel better, and be "sure?" The correct translation is "being saved," but of course ol' Queenie scribed the Book up pretty good, and hopes you don't use a lexicon, i guess.

Sorry if i sounded that way hahhaha, that didn't need to be included in my post, i agree with ya, Baptism in water to me is a symbolic thing, it's in no way a requirement to get into the gates of heaven or to be righteous through Christ, however baptism in the Spirit is way more important and is the real deal. I gotta admit there are a lot of Churches/Pastors/Priests/Other Believers out there who baptize people in just water and not in the Spirit (And that's the reason why we have so many Christians out there who are legalistic, doubters, stuck in the natural physical world of health, science and medicine, because they haven't experienced the supernatural, they are missing out on very many spiritual gifts, such as healing, prophesy, speakings of tongues, interpretation of tongues, etc. that's why baptism in the spirit is so very important)

As important as it is though, the only requirement to enter the gates of heaven is to ask Jesus into your heart and repent of your sins, and it doesn't mean you need to name each individual sin, when you ask Jesus into your heart it's as simple as "forgive me Lord of my sins", as God above is all-knowing he knows everybody's rights and wrongs. If you really wanna experience the supernatural though, i would encourage all of ya, if you haven't already to get baptized in the Holy Ghost.

As for who played Church right though, it's anyone who follows the examples of Jesus, which is not based in a brick building with four walls full of rituals and structure. But instead it's feasting with sinners, non-believers, the poor and needy, lonely, going out into the marketplace and streets and talking about Jesus, talking about testimonies, talking about the Holy Ghost, praying for the sick and them getting healed, the passing on of spiritual gifts just like when Paul laid his hands on others they started speaking in tongues, pretty amazing experience, and it's not limited to that, there is much more. That is how originally Church was done, and that's how the greatest revivals in history started.

 

[mjrhealth]

That you got those translations with the KJV blinders on, wadr, and no other translations support that interpretation, and it is an outright lie, not supported in the Lexicon, and put there so Apostates can feel better, and be "sure?" The correct translation is "being saved," but of course ol' Queenie scribed the Book up pretty good, and hopes you don't use a lexicon, i guess.

Actully I am saved, God doesnt live in the now He sees our beginning and our end, he is not blind to our future as we are, is it His fault that man has no faith in God that they dont believe He has saved them, besides my faith is in God and I have yet to see a bible describe Him as he truly is, How do I know I am saved, because Jesus Himself showed me what He did for me, so I have no doubt. You know that Jesus, teh LIVINg word.

The devil always sowing seeds of doubt keeping christians form God through there own unbelief.

So, what is there to argue? You wanna try again, at those two verses, or just keep on your path, of being so sure, of knowing?

When you make it passed the cross and are walking on that path let me know...

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;