Who Is "the Restrainer" In 2 Thess. 2:6-7

[ATP]

You are not a Protestant, but a hopelessly devoted Jesuit Futurist who believes that the Catholic church's eschatological interpretation of Jesuit Futurism is to be trusted, although you readily admit that Jesuits can't even get right the most fundamental teaching of Christianity: salvation by grace through faith alone. Congratulations, brother ATP, you are just the kind of non-Catholic that the Papacy relies on to spread their lies and deceptions which you have so clearly fallen for.

Prove to me the six tasks are already complete and will not be completed after Jesus lands on earth.

 

[Phoneman777]

No Phone. It is simply stating that the antichrist spirit can make a covenant of death. He did it before, and he will do it again.

ATP, Job says that Satan will not make any covenants with God's people because he is "king of all the children of pride" which does not refer to the saints. Why do you refuse to believe Scripture when it tells you that JESUS CHRIST is the "MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT" Who is to come to His temple? Because you are a hopelessly devoted Jesuit Futurist, is why.

 

[Phoneman777]

Prove to me the six tasks are already complete and will not be completed after Jesus lands on earth.

Why? Where does it say that them must be completed after Jesus arrives during the 70 WEeks?? The text can EASILY be read to mean that the 70 Weeks are necessary for the arrival of the One Who alone is able to bring about the accomplishment of those six tasks, but you refuse to acknowledge any other reading except your own, which is SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS, ATP!!!

 

[ATP]

Why? Where does it say that them must be completed after Jesus arrives during the 70 WEeks?? The text can EASILY be read to mean that the 70 Weeks are necessary for the arrival of the One Who alone is able to bring about the accomplishment of those six tasks, but you refuse to acknowledge any other reading except your own, which is SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS, ATP!!!

Uhh, well how is it possible to live sinless lives right now? Oh my...........

 

[Phoneman777]

Uhh, well how is it possible to live sinless lives right now? Oh my...........

Is English your mother tongue? What are you talking about? Where does it say the six tasks must be completed before the 70 Weeks end?

 

[ATP]

Is English your mother tongue? What are you talking about? Where does it say the six tasks must be completed before the 70 Weeks end?

opcorn:

Finish the transgression - The English word 'finish' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kala', which means 'to restrict', 'hold back', or 'prohibit'. When transgressions are restricted or held back (kala), they do not exist.

Make an end of sins - Sin is the violation of God's law. If there is no sin, there cannot be a violation. Therefore, whatever will happen during this prophecy has the ability to put an end to the violation of God's law.

Make reconciliation for iniquity (i.e., lawlessness) - The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside. When 'kaphar' is accomplished, the breach between man and God is healed.

Bring in everlasting righteousness - Everlasting righteousness cannot exist where a violation of God's law exists; because, to be totally righteous is to be God-like in every aspect of one's being. Whatever happens during this prophecy makes it possible for one to remain perpetually righteous.

Seal up the vision and prophecy - The English word 'seal' is translated from the Hebrew word 'chatham', which means 'to bring to an end'. Therefore, if the vision and prophecy are brought to an end, everything within Daniel's vision and within the prophecy that was revealed to him will culminate in the final event of the prophecy, which is the anointing of the Most Holy.

Anoint the Most Holy - The English word 'anoint' is translated from the Hebrew word 'mashiyach', which means 'to set aside' or 'consecrate for a holy purpose'. The English phrase 'Most Holy' is translated from the Hebrew phrase 'qodesh qoddashim', which means 'the holy of holies' (i.e., the innermost chamber of both the Tabernacle and the Temple of God). Therefore, we can assume that the conclusion of this prophecy is the establishment of a holy of holies where God's spirit-presence will dwell.

 

[ATP]

And since Dan 9:27 is future along with the antichrist kingdom, Michael the angel (the restrainer) will be taken out of the way. Very simple.

 

[ATP]

In Dan 9:24 NIV "to make an end" is translated "chatham" which means to to seal, affix a seal, seal up.

 

[Phoneman777]

opcorn:

Finish the transgression - The English word 'finish' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kala', which means 'to restrict', 'hold back', or 'prohibit'. When transgressions are restricted or held back (kala), they do not exist.

Make an end of sins - Sin is the violation of God's law. If there is no sin, there cannot be a violation. Therefore, whatever will happen during this prophecy has the ability to put an end to the violation of God's law.

Make reconciliation for iniquity (i.e., lawlessness) - The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside. When 'kaphar' is accomplished, the breach between man and God is healed.

Bring in everlasting righteousness - Everlasting righteousness cannot exist where a violation of God's law exists; because, to be totally righteous is to be God-like in every aspect of one's being. Whatever happens during this prophecy makes it possible for one to remain perpetually righteous.

Seal up the vision and prophecy - The English word 'seal' is translated from the Hebrew word 'chatham', which means 'to bring to an end'. Therefore, if the vision and prophecy are brought to an end, everything within Daniel's vision and within the prophecy that was revealed to him will culminate in the final event of the prophecy, which is the anointing of the Most Holy.

Anoint the Most Holy - The English word 'anoint' is translated from the Hebrew word 'mashiyach', which means 'to set aside' or 'consecrate for a holy purpose'. The English phrase 'Most Holy' is translated from the Hebrew phrase 'qodesh qoddashim', which means 'the holy of holies' (i.e., the innermost chamber of both the Tabernacle and the Temple of God). Therefore, we can assume that the conclusion of this prophecy is the establishment of a holy of holies where God's spirit-presence will dwell.

You're still not getting it. The text can just as easily be read to say that the 70 Weeks are necessary for the accomplishment of the six tasks, not that the six tasks must be accomplished before the end of the 70 weeks. Get it?

The 70 Weeks were necessary to show forth the coming of the Messiah, Who Himself alone is able to accomplish the six tasks in His own time with Everlasting righteousness and the end of sins being the last of the tasks to be completed by Him.

 

[ATP]

You're still not getting it. The text can just as easily be read to say that the 70 Weeks are necessary for the accomplishment of the six tasks, not that the six tasks must be accomplished before the end of the 70 weeks. Get it?

The 70 Weeks were necessary to show forth the coming of the Messiah, Who Himself alone is able to accomplish the six tasks in His own time with Everlasting righteousness and the end of sins being the last of the tasks to be completed by Him.

No Phone, the 70 weeks are about the people of Israel. People commit sin, not God. For example, Jesus is not reconciling himself back to himself. No, He's reconciling His people the Jews back to himself, also in Rom 11:25-27 NIV.

Jesus will finally put an end to sin for unbelieving Israel at the end of the 70th week when He lands back on earth. In end times prophecy that day is called "the day of atonement". It is one of the seven Feasts of the Lord Lev 23:26-32 NIV. He will finally atone for wickedness...

Dan 9:20-21 NIV While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.

Dan 9:24 NIV “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Rom 11:25-27 NIV I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Make reconciliation for iniquity (i.e., lawlessness) - The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside. When 'kaphar' is accomplished, the breach between man and God is healed.

- ATP

 

[ATP]

You're still not getting it. The text can just as easily be read to say that the 70 Weeks are necessary for the accomplishment of the six tasks, not that the six tasks must be accomplished before the end of the 70 weeks. Get it?

The 70 Weeks were necessary to show forth the coming of the Messiah, Who Himself alone is able to accomplish the six tasks in His own time with Everlasting righteousness and the end of sins being the last of the tasks to be completed by Him.

If Jesus put an end to sins in Dan 9:24, wouldn't that mean He died for future sins also? Since you are non-osas and all.

 

[mjrhealth]

Two things arise out of this,

Has this anything to do with your salvation Yes / No
and do you really have teh answer from God or are you just guessing.

Answer to number one is no,

and number two is you are both just guessing,

So why are you arguing it wont change anything except to prove " who is the greatest among you".

 

[Saint]

Christ came to the Nation of Israel, which was primarily Judah to offer them the Kingdom if they would accept Him as Messiah; they had the full 70th week to complete the items listed in Dan 9:24. Christ was cut off in the middle of the last week but Judah still had 3 1/2 weeks to turn to Him. The stoning of Stephen was the last straw and the end of the allotted time; 3 1/2 years after the cross; the offer was withdrawn from Israel and the Gospel was taken to the nations. Notice in Acts 7:58, as soon as they started to stone the story turns to Saul and the gospel is taken to the nations. Judah is not totally rejected and Christ will once again turn to them at the end of this age which is foretold Zechariah 12-14.

 

[ATP]

Christ came to the Nation of Israel, which was primarily Judah to offer them the Kingdom if they would accept Him as Messiah; they had the full 70th week to complete the items listed in Dan 9:24. Christ was cut off in the middle of the last week but Judah still had 3 1/2 weeks to turn to Him. The stoning of Stephen was the last straw and the end of the allotted time; 3 1/2 years after the cross; the offer was withdrawn from Israel and the Gospel was taken to the nations. Notice in Acts 7:58, as soon as they started to stone the story turns to Saul and the gospel is taken to the nations. Judah is not totally rejected and Christ will once again turn to them at the end of this age which is foretold Zechariah 12-14.

I would disagree. There is still gaps in your argument.

The 70 weeks are about the people of Israel Dan 9:20-24 NIV. People commit sin, not God. For example, Jesus is not reconciling himself back to himself. No, to atone for wickedness He reconciles His people the Jews back to himself.

Dan 9:24 NIV - Make reconciliation for iniquity (i.e., lawlessness) - The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside. When 'kaphar' is accomplished, the breach between man and God is healed.

Jesus will finally put an end to sin for unbelieving Israel at the end of the 70th week when He lands on earth again. In end times prophecy that day is called "the day of atonement". It is one of the seven Feasts of the Lord..Lev 23:26-32 NIV, Ezek 16:59-63 NIV, Ezek 36:33 NIV, Ezek 37:23 NIV, Zech 3:9 NIV, Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:6-12 NIV, Zech 13:8-9 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Rom 11:25-27 NIV.

He will finally atone for wickedness. The six tasks below in Note 1 are certainly not finished yet......

Note 1: According to Dan 9:24 NIV, the following six major things must be accomplished during the 70-week prophecy:

Finish the transgression - The English word 'finish' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kala', which means 'to restrict', 'hold back', or 'prohibit'. When transgressions are restricted or held back (kala), they do not exist.

Make an end of sins - "To make an end" is translated "chatham" which means to seal, affix a seal, seal up. Sin is the violation of God's law. If there is no sin, there cannot be a violation. Therefore, whatever will happen during this prophecy has the ability to put an end to the violation of God's law.

Make reconciliation for iniquity (i.e., lawlessness) - The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside. When 'kaphar' is accomplished, the breach between man and God is healed.

Bring in everlasting righteousness - Everlasting righteousness cannot exist where a violation of God's law exists; because, to be totally righteous is to be God-like in every aspect of one's being. Whatever happens during this prophecy makes it possible for one to remain perpetually righteous.

Seal up the vision and prophecy - The English word 'seal' is translated from the Hebrew word 'chatham', which means 'to bring to an end'. Therefore, if the vision and prophecy are brought to an end, everything within Daniel's vision and within the prophecy that was revealed to him will culminate in the final event of the prophecy, which is the anointing of the Most Holy.

Anoint the Most Holy - The English word 'anoint' is translated from the Hebrew word 'mashiyach', which means 'to set aside' or 'consecrate for a holy purpose'. The English phrase 'Most Holy' is translated from the Hebrew phrase 'qodesh qoddashim', which means 'the holy of holies' (i.e., the innermost chamber of both the Tabernacle and the Temple of God). Therefore, we can assume that the conclusion of this prophecy is the establishment of a holy of holies where God's spirit-presence will dwell.

Note 2: The English phrase 'most holy' in both the KJV and LBP are translated from the Hebrew phrase 'qodesh qoddashim', which means 'the holy of holies' (i.e., the innermost chamber of both the Tabernacle and the Temple of God). Clearly, Dan 9:24 NIV is telling us that, sometime after the 490 years of national punishment of Israel and Judah, the following events would take place:

1. The new covenant will be instituted with regathered Israel and Judah.
2. The Kingdom of God (i.e., everlasting righteousness ) will be established and rule the earth.
3. People will learn to live sinless lives.
4. The Temple services will again be established as prophesied.

The Kingdom of God will be established after the 70 prophetic weeks are completed. However, it is also clear when we review Dan 9:26 NIV that there is a vast amount of time between the end of the years of punishment and the establishment of the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God.

Note 3: There is still war on earth, even now Matt 24:6-7 NIV. Also notice that the Messiah is killed, but his kingdom is not established yet...

Dan 9:26 NIV After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

- ATP

 

[Saint]

He Himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
(1Jn 2:2)

 

[Phoneman777]

Two things arise out of this,

Has this anything to do with your salvation Yes / No
and do you really have teh answer from God or are you just guessing.

Answer to number one is no,

and number two is you are both just guessing,

So why are you arguing it wont change anything except to prove " who is the greatest among you".

Of course this debate is meaningless to someone who has chosen to believe Jesuit Futurism, which teaches that when the Mark of the Beast test comes, the church will be gone.

But, to those who reject Jesuit Futurism's "7 Year Tribulation one-man Antichrist" and see in prophecy a Papal Antichrist whose Mark of the Beast they will have to reject in the end and instead receive the Seal of God, it is most definitely a salvation issue. I don't care how saved you think you are, if you take the Mark of the Beast, you are going straight to hell - do not pass God, do not collect 200 jewels in your crown.

 

[ATP]

He Himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
(1Jn 2:2)

There's two kinds of atonement Saint. The atonement of sins for those who come to faith in Jesus Christ..Rom 3:25 NIV, Heb 2:17 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV.

And then there's the atonement of sins for Israel at the end of the 70th week on the Day of Atonement..

Lev 23:26-32 NIV, Ezek 16:59-63 NIV, Ezek 36:33 NIV, Ezek 37:23 NIV, Dan 9:20-24 NIV, Zech 3:9 NIV, Zech 9:14-17 NIV, Zech 10:6-12 NIV, Zech 12:10-14 NIV, Zech 13:8-9 NIV, Zech 14:4 NIV, Mal 3:2-4 NIV, Matt 25:31-46 NIV, Rom 11:25-27 NIV, Jude 1:14-15 NIV, Rev 19:11-21 NIV.

Of course this debate is meaningless to someone who has chosen to believe Jesuit Futurism, which teaches that when the Mark of the Beast test comes, the church will be gone.

No, I agree with you Phone. I believe the mark of the beast will be forced on people before rapture and the Day of the Lord.

However, believers in Christ will not take the mark. They've already taken the mark of God and the Holy Spirit..
John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV.

Instead of taking the mark of the beast they will be martyred for their testimony of Jesus Christ.

But, to those who reject Jesuit Futurism's "7 Year Tribulation one-man Antichrist"

The future 7 years is actually titled the 70th week, not the tribulation. The Great Tribulation only lasts around 1.75 years Matt 24:22 NIV. Also, I agree with you that the Antichrist is not one man, rather an entire kingdom. Thank you for clarifying that for me. That was a good reference by you. A better title would be "the 70th week Antichrist Kingdom".

and see in prophecy a Papal Antichrist whose Mark of the Beast they will have to reject in the end and instead receive the Seal of God, it is most definitely a salvation issue. I don't care how saved you think you are, if you take the Mark of the Beast, you are going straight to hell - do not pass God, do not collect 200 jewels in your crown.

Yes it is a salvation issue, but are you sure you're not the one with the issue?
Do you have a testimony Phone, since you ignored me the first time 1 John 5:9-14 NIV.

Believers in Christ have already taken the mark of God, and will not take the mark of the beast. Believers take the mark of God when they come to faith in Jesus Christ, in which they have been sealed until the day of redemption John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV.

So do you agree now that the 70 weeks are about Israel Dan 9:20-24 NIV, and the six tasks in Dan 9:24 NIV have not been completed yet?

- ATP

 

[Phoneman777]

There's two kinds of atonement Saint. The atonement of sins for those who come to faith in Jesus Christ..Rom 3:25 NIV, Heb 2:17 NIV, 1 John 2:2 NIV, 1 John 4:10 NIV.

And then there's the atonement of sins for Israel at the end of the 70th week on the Day of Atonement..



- ATP

ATP, when will you learn that the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile has been broken down? Enough with these ridiculous claims that Israel as a nation has a role to play in end time prophecy! Israel is now the church, for only those in Christ are "Abraham's Seed"! That's why Paul says that those who walk in Christ are "the Israel of God"!! (Galatians 6:16 KJV)

Israel had their chance - that's what the 70 Weeks was about: PROBATION. It was about them and their city, but they blew it and now the Gospel is given to those who have accepted Christ, whether they be Jew or Gentile. Israel had their chance and now the only Christ they will accept nationally is the Antichrist.

 

[Saint]

There is only one atonement for the sin of mankind and that is the blood of Christ at the cross; the intent was for perpetual righteousness.

 

[michaelvpardo]

There is only one atonement for the sin of mankind and that is the blood of Christ at the cross; the intent was for perpetual righteousness.

Amen & Amen.