Why did God need to give us free will, or did He need to? Do we really have it?

[Miss Hepburn]

Again, this was brought up in a thread, but to discuss it would have derailed the Topic.
Insights into why free will?

 

[aspen]

Its a helpful myth to help us live with not knowing the future.

Science provides us with the concept of cause and effect for the same purpose

Religion offers us faith

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Its a helpful myth to help us live with not knowing the future.

Oh my, this is a great start !
Is free will a myth?
Dig in guys!

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh my, this is a great start !
Is free will a myth?
Dig in guys!

you have kids, right
and no doubt you could pretty accurately describe what one of your kids would do in a given situation.
is the kid then bound by your description? do they have to do what you predict?
if not, then why is your prediction so often accurate?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

you have kids, right
and no doubt you could pretty accurately describe what one of your kids would do in a given situation.
is the kid then bound by your description? do they have to do what you predict?
if not, then why is your prediction so often accurate?

What is your point,bb? :]

 

[bbyrd009]

What is your point,bb? :]

well, does your kid have free will, or not? Could he change his mind, and do something different,
that would surprise you, or is he bound to your prediction?

 

[amadeus]

Back to Joshua who gave us a verse that continues to describe our choices today:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

We can replace the words, "gods which your fathers served" or "gods of the Amorites" with whatever is appropriate to us versus serving God. Jesus called it choosing to serve God or mammon:

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matt 6:24

In a nutshell this is "Free will": God's Way or our own.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

well, does your kid have free will, or not? Could he change his mind, and do something different,
that would surprise you, or is he bound to your prediction?

I still don't
See your point..I will play along and ans the obvious response to end the game...any child would have a choice. Yes, he has free will...as do we....
God I hate games...

 

[Miss Hepburn]

In a nutshell this is "Free will": God's Way or our own.

Well, didn't this open a can of worms!
Did you not just say "our" own way, then, is not God's Way?
This is surrending to the identification to the egoic mind..saying we are part and parcel just pawns of the enemy!

Isn't your way good, honest, and abiding in Christ, amadeus?
I would say, " Don't sell yourself short...you are good pure, innocent spirit...'that is who you are' ...see it...rise to the
Christ in you, I see it...imagine what your Holy Father sees."

Gee, I went on and on on that one....

 

[bbyrd009]

I still don't
See your point..I will play along and ans the obvious response to end the game...any child would have a choice. Yes, he has free will...as do we....
God I hate games...

oh, i'm not meaning to play coy, sorry.
There is an apparent equivocal argument that he has no free will, if you can so reliably predict his actions, see.

it could even be argued that he perhaps currently has no free will, whereas if he were..."able" to change his mind and act differently, then he would have it at that point.

What keeps this theoretically "blind" kid from changing his mind?
not a lawyer Q, i don't know lol

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Bb....that is not anything I subscribe to..I can predict you will say narf in the next post...
You have the choice to post anything.
Sure scientifically...scientists can be behind a 6 inch glass and just their presence will effect the result of the experiment..we all know that.
But, we would have to start a new thread on our inter connected unconscious mind...as it relates to findings in quantum physics.

 

[amadeus]

Well, didn't this open a can of worms!
Did you not just say "our" own way, then, is not God's Way?
This is surrendering to the identification to the egoic mind..saying we are part and parcel just pawns of the enemy!

That is it, but it not so simple because people seem to have other options at the moment. People do ride the fence trying to take the lukewarm way of the Laodicean church [Rev 3:16]. God puts up with that kind of nonsense for a while, but is there not a limit to his longsuffering with our ways? Among believers and unbelievers [those walking either hot or cold] there are probably also many shades of difference which people often want to argue about, do they not? How bad it is depends on how long they have walking and how much they really know of the truth.

Pawns, no? Deluded, yes! Remember what apostle Paul wrote about delusion?

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

Isn't your way good, honest, and abiding in Christ, amadeus?
I would say, " Don't sell yourself short...you are good pure, innocent spirit...'that is who you are' ...see it...rise to the
Christ in you, I see it...imagine what your Holy Father sees."

Gee, I went on and on on that one....

What really matters as I believe it what is in hearts with regard to love or charity as per I Corinthians chapter 13. We can draw other lines ourselves regarding doctrines or free will or almost anything, but without charity we would still be as "sounding brass or tingling cymbal". We would be nothing! We would be worth nothing. Only God can judge those things. If we judge them without being led by Him in that judgment how correct will our judgment be?

As for me I know what I have been: a very naive man in the flesh. The flesh remains so, but I now do have a vision of God's plan even if it is still somewhat as through a glass darkly. That is better than perishing, is it not? A key along with charity increasing in us is also to be growing as we are led by the Holy Spirit. The job is not finished until our time here is finished.
Then it will either the brightest it has ever been... or it will be the darkest of nights.

 

[bbyrd009]

Bb....that is not anything I subscribe to

"that" meaning what, exactly? That the IRL analogy i "made up" is not a valid reflection of the subject?

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure scientifically...scientists can be behind a 6 inch glass and just their presence will effect the result of the experiment..we all know that.

ha, it's your kid, i would trust you to have the best reflection there tbh

 

[Helen]

Yes, we have freewill. We have been made free, as A & E were free, to walk with God or walk their own way.
God has set us free so that we can 'of choice' choose Him.
Not many like that...because they say it is unfair and makes us into robots.

But once we see how beautiful God is..it will melt our hearts.
God does not want a Companion that He forces to love Him...He gives us choice. It is only the blind who cannot see that God wants the very best for us. He offers us HIMSELF!! Wow!!

Not all the church will make it into His Companion and be forever close.
The full revelation of our choices will be shown at the end...we choose every day where and how close we will be to the Lord in Glory. Our choice.

I do not believe that the 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' has anything to do with Hell. I believe it is the 5 foolish-type of virgin Christians who did not make their calling and election sure. Those who for want of a better description.."end up in the back-40..." Just as there are angels, archangels, seraphs, cherubim etc etc in Glory, so there will be amongst the children of God in Heaven.
Not a well accepted message.
But God has invited ALL to be His Close Companion.. ..only some will respond and pay the price...it starts here...we choose..
The price of living as close to the world as a person can get, and taste it dainties offered daily...or of staying in the abiding under the shadow of the Almighty and having Him as our loving obsession. Our choice.
How much do we love?
" I love my dog, I love my cat, I love ice cream, I love God.." hummm

The love slave...Exodus 21..
3 If he ( servant) came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve his master for ever."

A good picture here in these verses.
Freewill has vision...it has eyes to see the power of love.

Well , whoops, much more than "my two cents"

 

[Miss Hepburn]

"that" meaning what, exactly? That the IRL analogy i "made up" is not a valid reflection of the subject?

I do not subscribe to a child not having freewill..I say kid or child bec that is what you brought into the post.
I made this thread bec someone else made a comment about free will..I actually wanted him to start a thread.
I have no issue re free will..we have it, the end.

 

[ScottA]

Again, this was brought up in a thread, but to discuss it would have derailed the Topic.
Insights into why free will?

The biblical language walks a fine line (or dare I say dances around) between "choice" and "predestination." But it does so on purpose.

You see, the bible is a written record of what occurred "in the twinkling of an eye" "before the foundation of the world." But it is read or unfolded to the characters of the story (His story) in real time. Once upon a time, as foretold and told, by a timeless Author...in living color.

So...we have a choice of believing that "it is finished" and that we in fact made our freewill choice "before the foundation of the world", or that we have been allotted this present "time", and "it shall be done" during our "hour of decision."

Both are true.

 

[tabletalk]

The biblical language walks a fine line (or dare I say dances around) between "choice" and "predestination." But it does so on purpose.

You see, the bible is a written record of what occurred "in the twinkling of an eye" "before the foundation of the world." But it is read or unfolded to the characters of the story (His story) in real time. Once upon a time, as foretold and told, by a timeless Author...in living color.

So...we have a choice of believing that "it is finished" and that we in fact made our freewill choice "before the foundation of the world", or that we have been allotted this present "time", and "it shall be done" during our "hour of decision."

Both are true.

You said: "...we in fact made our freewill choice "before the foundation of the world""

If you are referring to this Scripture:
Ephesians 1:4
"..just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,..."

Then, it looks like we did not make our freewill choice, God did. Eh?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

@tabletalk....I see you did some research!

 

[tooldtocare]

Since God created everything it stands to reason God could have created perfect humans. Then again what is the fun in that? God decided to throw in an unknown to make this experiment interesting; even for Him.

He gave us the ability to choose. From that point on He has been sitting back to see what we chose to do next.

But being the Father He is He gave us some guide lines and warnings and even a method to get back on track should we stray. A term we now call forgiveness.

In conclusion the point of my rambling is there is no point just rounded edges with no end in sight